An Important Announcement for FINAL FANTASY XIV Fans

[Hyan]

Way. to. go.

[Nilheim]

They did a horrible job. Period. My FFXIV copy is dusting off since 1 week after release. They did a REALLY HORRIBLE job.

Thus you are probably the best person to comment on the recent changes right?

[Rowe]

It is all just another symbolic gesture from SE. Tanaka is a sacrificial lamb. Once the release date was set the game was doomed to have a disappointing launch. The only way they could have prevented it was to delay the launch or quadruple the development team. We all felt as if the release date was set by management not the dev team.

A patch a month is not a fast enough pace to get the game to where it will be digestible to the MMO market in general. Even at the pace they seemed to be at through Nov and Dec the game wouldn't be satisfactory for the PS3 market by March. SE needs to throw bodies at the problem and accelerate the planned update schedule, everything they were aiming for by March needs to be done by the end of January. Then they need to refine it more and add content from then until June/July and they might have a game they can launch the PS3 version and not have a repeat of this whole PC release mess.

[Hyan]

Even at the pace they seemed to be at through Nov and Dec the game wouldn't be satisfactory for the PS3 market by March.

Is there some sort of golden standard for MMO's released on PS3 that SE has to meet?

[Rowe]

Is there some sort of golden standard for MMO's released on PS3 that SE has to meet?

Yeah, a game for the PS3 should be able to manage an average score from reviewers higher than 4 or 5 out of 10. With the PS3 SE is trying to draw in people who aren't Final Fantasy fanboys. The average casual gamer with a PS3 will see the reviews and not buy it, or they will ask the schmuck behind the counter at GameStop"How's this game?" holding up the game box and the guy will say, "It got a 4 out of 10."

The PS3 launch is their second chance but still it is its own one shot deal they simply can't blow it like they did the PC release. It is not like they have no means to determine the games playability and level of satisfactory content, the PC version is out in the wild. If say [Link removed]were to re-review the PC version today what would they score it? If the launch was 4 out of 10 then it might be 4.5 or 6 at the most right now, SE needs to get it to 8 or better to launch the PS3 version. Basically SE has to get the PC version to the point where it is generating positive hype and is getting a second look at by the big names in gaming.

Until they can market it as if it were the game that should have been released and it meets the unrealistic expectations of being a polished next generation MMO there is not point in releasing it for PS3. Its pretty simple to understand.

[Hyan]

With the PS3 SE is trying to draw in people who aren't Final Fantasy fanboys.

Shouldn't they try to draw in the fanboys first?

Either way, I know what you're saying- but I don't know why their current plans weren't fast enough in your opinion.. especially now that the PS3 version will prolly be released at summer earliest. Some adjustments to the existing plans are probably needed- like axing the marketplace changes and just going for the AH- but overall things are looking pretty decent already. 8+ reviews for March may still be unrealistic, but it's not like the deadline didn't change as well.

If they can squeeze more out of the dev team with the structural changes, good- but it's not a catastrophe if they can't. I hope people aren't looking at Yoshida as the Obama of XIV lol.

[Ragns]

So basically...

[Elrina]

I think that's exactly what a lot of people are hoping, a completely different outlook on where to go with the game and a gradual (or not gradual) shift to that. Hence the now "indefinite" free trial, until a new outline is laid out for what they're planning for the game. It sounds to me like they plan to overhaul a bunch of stuff, and because it'll make the game feel like a construction site for a few more months, are making it clear they won't be charging us for it in the meantime.

And aiming just for the fanboys first is limiting themselves enormously, they're the ones who (in theory) would be wanting to play it and/or give it a chance regardless. They should be targeting everyone else, I'd imagine.

So basically...

Rofl

[CasualPlayer]

Yeah, a game for the PS3 should be able to manage an average score from reviewers higher than 4 or 5 out of 10. With the PS3 SE is trying to draw in people who aren't Final Fantasy fanboys. The average casual gamer with a PS3 will see the reviews and not buy it, or they will ask the schmuck behind the counter at GameStop"How's this game?" holding up the game box and the guy will say, "It got a 4 out of 10."

The PS3 launch is their second chance but still it is its own one shot deal they simply can't blow it like they did the PC release. It is not like they have no means to determine the games playability and level of satisfactory content, the PC version is out in the wild. If say[Link removed] were to re-review the PC version today what would they score it? If the launch was 4 out of 10 then it might be 4.5 or 6 at the most right now, SE needs to get it to 8 or better to launch the PS3 version. Basically SE has to get the PC version to the point where it is generating positive hype and is getting a second look at by the big names in gaming.

Until they can market it as if it were the game that should have been released and it meets the unrealistic expectations of being a polished next generation MMO there is not point in releasing it for PS3. Its pretty simple to understand.

Have to disagree with this point. For some reason FF MMO doesn't get the same attention, at least in the west, that other MMOs get. When it releases for PS3 unless they have broad marketing for the game via commercials, internet campaigns, paying off game magazines or whatever, I don't believe the game will even pop up on the casual radar.

I'm still waiting for the Game Informer review of this game.

Even when XI was "good" it still never got a score higher than 8 from a western reviewer, and even on the good reviews there was a lot of disdain for the game because of how difficult it was for a casual to pick it up and get into it.

[Hyan]

I think that's exactly what a lot of people are hoping, a completely different outlook on where to go with the game and a gradual (or not gradual) shift to that.

I just wonder wtf would that mean at this point. Maybe I just lack imagination.

Who's the guy on the left?

[Elrina]

No idea, I was assuming it was supposed to be the new guy rofl.

And I could think of a few things, but at this point any of the really big changes would be controversial (like adding in systems and features more like WoW), or making tweaks that completely alter the balance of the game (like removing durability and anima completely, removing the guildleve limit, etc.), or both. I'm definitely just as curious as everyone else as to what is going to happen with the game at this point though.

[Rowe]

I think biweekly updates that are smaller would give a better sense that continued progress is being made. There are so many areas that need to be addressed that a large comprehensive monthly update is good but smaller more frequent ones can do the same amount of improvement while giving them more positive PR spin.

At this point there are plenty of media outlets such as Kotaku and sankaku complex that jump on any news about FFXIV and spin it to fan rage posts or hater(WoW players) posts. SE needs to let the rage cool off and begin building the hype for the game all over again. If they manage to build up desire for the game again then the PS3 launch has to be a slam dunk.

Have to disagree with this point. For some reason FF MMO doesn't get the same attention, at least in the west, that other MMOs get. When it releases for PS3 unless they have broad marketing for the game via commercials, internet campaigns, paying off game magazines or whatever, I don't believe the game will even pop up on the casual radar.

I'm still waiting for the Game Informer review of this game.

Even when XI was "good" it still never got a score higher than 8 from a western reviewer, and even on the good reviews there was a lot of disdain for the game because of how difficult it was for a casual to pick it up and get into it.

I looked up FFXI PS2 launch review at IGN it scored a 8.8 in 2004. Not only that it got the editor's choice award. I remember when XI was building up to PS2 launch and it was getting tons of hype in the gaming magazines at that time. WoW wasn't out yet and XI was being pushed as a great game to play while waiting for WoW, one you might just stick to. Just because G4's MMO report has been bashing XI since the segment started doesn't mean XI was ignored or slammed by the west. Most of that started after WoW came out.

If SE can get the game to the point where reviews are saying give the PC version of FFXIV a second chance it's great now then it's time to release on PS3. The urgency comes it 2 ways, first losing money, until they can charge for it they are losing money. Secondly perception, if it takes a year to get the game to where they are ready to launch the PS3 version they lose the minds of the public and the reviewers. Every new review will be prefaced by, "It has taken them a year to get this game to where it needed to be." If they can do it in 6 months the industry voices will be more forgiving and less likely to ridicule them further than they already have been.

[Ragns]

Akihiko Matsui, the guy that was director of FFXI for the last few months. The others are of course Hiromichi Tanaka and Sage Sundi.

[Hyan]

The amount of stupid ideas that have been popping up in core and zam scare me. ANyway, the fact that people dealing with things related to combat systems in various games are positioned so high in the food chain may hint what's coming... Even the UI designer is a former director (of XII) so top talent is in use...

Ohh, the new old battle director. Guy was in charge since the start of ToAU, he's the man.

I think biweekly updates that are smaller would give a better sense that continued progress is being made.

Interestingly enough, they seem to be hinting that this is the new approach (maybe monthly instead of biweekly though). I hope it doesn't slow down their schedule though, with having to plan updates much more frequently.

What matters more though is the size of their team. Did it get bigger? Surely if they can take valuable people off their other projects for this game they can take some of their normal programmer peons with them too.

[Drakath]

I'll never forget that interview where a key member of the previous development team for FFXIV admitted to never having played or looked at WoW. Kind of silly to hear when this is by far the biggest competition. Not saying they should go play it and copy every idea, but it sure wouldn't hurt to get a better understanding WHY WoW is so hugely successful.

[Ragns]

I doubt bi-weekly updates are feasible especially for major updates.

2 weeks = 80 hours
minus 4-8 hours lost to deploy the new version
minus 16-32 hours lost going back and forth between the devs and testers

That leaves between 40 and 60 hours to code the changes IF everything is planned ahead, no new feature break the whole game, no miscalculation in the metric changes make 2 handed weapons overpowered and no one on the team catch the flu.

I hate my job.

[blythe]

A little OT, but yes, the game obviously could have used a few months of polish before launch, especially with the UI, mob placement, etc. But things like random SP gain and the lack of an AH appeared to be design choices. From what I remember of the beta SE didn't seem to be at all interested in what we thought of the fundamental game mechanics.

Basically I'm not convinced that they ever would have made these sweeping changes if there hadn't been such a disastrous launch. As in, a few more months of beta testers bitching wouldn't have been enough for them to take action.

[Hyan]

Content will still come in at least 2 month intervals, I'd bet.

[Lordender]

Man people are way too Nostalgic over FFXI, the game sucked until the end of CoP when limbus came out, CoP dynamis blew, farming sea sucked for the longest time because of low drop of pop items. ToAU was the saving grace of the game, WoTG was a shitty expansion until abyssea and recent updates.

FFXI was largely a very fustrating game, the end game wasen't fun, kings were lame. It took years for SE to right the FFXI ship so to speak and this will probably be the case of 14. 14 is already following in the footsteps, it is an incredibly fustrating game at its start.

[Rowe]

I doubt bi-weekly updates are feasible especially for major updates.

2 weeks = 80 hours
minus 4-8 hours lost to deploy the new version
minus 16-32 hours lost going back and forth between the devs and testers

That leaves between 40 and 60 hours to code the changes IF everything is planned ahead, no new feature break the whole game, no miscalculation in the metric changes make 2 handed weapons overpowered and no one on the team catch the flu.

I hate my job.

I'm not saying bi-weekly major updates, I am saying as they target a date for a major update once a month along the ay they release some of the minor fixes they make rather than sit on them to include in the major update. Nov. Details looking at this list there are a lot of minor fixes that could have been released as they were fixed. For instance the Yes/No confirmation for Fade to White.

Warhammer Online for quite a while was releasing nearly weekly updates the problem they had was doing and redoing class changes. That was what finally made me give up on it, each month they would rebuild a class from the ground up and the next month change it again. But they fixed bugs weekly or every other week.

Man people are way too Nostalgic over FFXI, the game sucked until the end of CoP when limbus came out, CoP dynamis blew, farming sea sucked for the longest time because of low drop of pop items. ToAU was the saving grace of the game, WoTG was a shitty expansion until abyssea and recent updates.

FFXI was largely a very fustrating game, the end game wasen't fun, kings were lame. It took years for SE to right the FFXI ship so to speak and this will probably be the case of 14. 14 is already following in the footsteps, it is an incredibly fustrating game at its start.

Everything you posted is your opinion and it is also several years removed from the actual releases and occurrences. Hind sight is 20/20 and having other MMOs to compare XI to is different than talking about it's PC launch or PS2 launch. People did not bitch too much about XI until after WoW was released, a lot of the PS2 players abandoned XI for WoW. No one complained about XI end-game when the PS2 launched because it took months to hit the level cap. The only people doing end-game were JPs and the small number of NA PC users.