Mass Effect 3

[Kuya]

i think vid game customers have a hard time understanding that video game developers don't owe them anything. Game companies can't tell customers this because it's considered bad customer handling.

[Matthias]

i found it pretty hilarious that the better business bureau actually got involved in this. apparently the uk's business regulating body got involved too.

[Brill Weave]

You literally have me shaking my head right now. You're to the point where you're listing definitions to attempt to dissect and refute other people's posts. I get that you don't care. Seriously I do. Bioware could have fed you a mouthful of steaming shit and you would have smiled and kept eating it and defended it against all naysayers. I'll admit that I misunderstood your stance in regards to Elcura. Shit happens. If I'm wrong I admit it. But continuing the discussion. You were infracted because you were insulting a poster for disagreeing with you. Ironic is that it was me. And I said no such thing about not thinking things through.

Quote Originally Posted by Brill Weave View Post
Whatever helps you sleep at night dood. If you care to scroll back maybe 75 - 100 pages you'll see my responses to your Earth shattering points when they were brought up 6 months ago. I'm not arguing with you about it because this is a conversation I've already had months ago. I have no desire to go through the same thing a second time. Keep suckling at the Bioware teat while ignoring the massive plot holes and inconsistencies.

you're not thinking hard enough. think through it and it'll sink in and you'll realize it was simply a lapse in your already lacking intelligence. trust me.



User was infracted for this post.

If you're going to lie about shit at least make sure someone can't prove you're lying. As to your first post. It's almost pointless to argue with a fanboy that doesn't even acknowledge what is being said. You loved the original endings, there's a lot of people out there that liked them aside from you. However the overwhelming majority of consumers were/are in the opposite field. Much like I did, they pointed out the omissions, the plot holes, the inconsistencies, the broken promises, etc. I'm glad that you're satisfied with a company that essentially lied to your face. You're the type of consumer companies live for.

[Brill Weave]

I would be posting more right now but it took me 20+ minutes just to write that shit. Work is super busy.

[Brill Weave]

To be perfectly honest though I think you and I should just agree to disagree when it comes to ME3. We've done this dance months before. There's really no point in rehashing the same shit we said then. Which is pretty much all we're doing at the moment.

[Matthias]

You literally have me shaking my head right now.

guess that's a shred of irony, as you've had me literally grinning for a while now.

You're to the point where you're listing definitions to attempt to dissect and refute other people's posts.

um. ok. so you contradict yourself by saying it's not about one thing, but it is about that same thing... and it's my problem for calling you out on it? uh no my dear bill wreave. that's your bad for not having your terminology figured out before you use them. you don't want people calling you out on that stuff? well then think it through before you say it.

I get that you don't care. Seriously I do. Bioware could have fed you a mouthful of steaming shit and you would have smiled and kept eating it and defended it against all naysayers.

no you really really don't get that i don't care. more accurately you're not getting what i don't care about. had i thought the ending sucked i would have been talking about how bad it is just like everyone else. probably the only difference is that i wouldn't be complaining about how bioware betrayed us and we were screwed out of an amazing experience blah blah blah. i would simply be saying "damn i spent money on another bad game. well that happens. hopefully the next game will be worth it," and moving on.

but anyways, what you're not getting is that i thought the ending was just fine. why? because the story was just fine. these "plot holes", i.e. lapses in story logic, that you and others are complaining about, actually make sense to me. hence i don't have a problem with them. your assumption is that because you didn't like the endings, everyone else shouldn't either, and anyone who does is "whiteknighting bioware". whereas i grasp, not only the story whose logic seems to escape you, but the very concept that people will react to things differently, and that what works for one person won't work for another. was it everything bioware promised? well i actually haven't read most of the presses leading up to the release, as i was avoiding everything me3-related as to not spoil anything for myself. but apparently it wasn't. that's what i don't care about. coulda shoulda woulda... i don't care. i deal with what we actually got. and what we got was just fine. if it wasn't, i'd be deriding it too. and i have no apologies about being one of the "minority" that understood the story.

I'll admit that I misunderstood your stance in regards to Elcura. Shit happens. If I'm wrong I admit it. But continuing the discussion. You were infracted because you were insulting a poster for disagreeing with you. Ironic is that it was me. And I said no such thing about not thinking things through.

If you're going to lie about shit at least make sure someone can't prove you're lying.

well bill wreave you owned up to your mistake i'll own up to mine. i just looked back at the email that i got about the infraction and it turns out your right. it was my bad, at the time that it happened i glanced over it, and since the email had quoted my statement questioning your intelligence, i just assumed that the insult was the cause of the infraction. i see now it was trolling. it happens.

And I said no such thing about not thinking things through.

Use your head. He ordered a full retreat for ground forces. Which naturally means the Normandy, involved in the largest most crucial space battle in the history of the universe, is going to break off from the fight to go down to Earth and taxi everyone around? The entire games focuses on how the battle is bigger than one man. So why would even one ship break away where it could make a difference in order to go pick people up rather than continue the fight of the universe's life? You're thinking too hard. This was a MASSIVE unexplained head scratching event.

As to your first post. It's almost pointless to argue with a fanboy that doesn't even acknowledge what is being said.

this from the guy who refuses to acknowledge the explanation that i had to just about every "plot hole" you pointed out?

You loved the original endings, there's a lot of people out there that liked them aside from you. However the overwhelming majority of consumers were/are in the opposite field.

i have no problem being the minority. i have no problem having thoroughly enjoyed myself through the entirety of an amazing gaming experience rather than suffering the lingering feeling of having wasted 8 years of my life building up towards something that was ultimately disappointing (someone seriously said something to that effect elsewhere on the net).

and i certainly have no problem with the realization that i'm one of the apparently few who was able to comprehend the logic of a story that for whatever reason seems to have proven illusive to the vast majority. as someone said earlier, i overthought it, and i enjoyed the game all the more because of it.

excuse me i didn't overthink it, i thought about it too hard. kinda like we're not discussing storyline logic, we're discussing plot holes.

Much like I did, they pointed out the omissions, the plot holes, the inconsistencies, the broken promises, etc.

and much like i did, they pointed out the explanations to those omissions, the plot holes, the inconsistencies, the broken promises, etc. usually only to be referred to another page or another website where supposedly everything was previously explained, leaving us wondering why you didn't just refer use to those pages in the first place, especially since apparently it's almost pointless to argue with fanboys like us in the first place.

I'm glad that you're satisfied with a company that essentially lied to your face. You're the type of consumer companies live for.

good illustration of an above point. i never really said anything about the company, only the game.

To be perfectly honest though I think you and I should just agree to disagree when it comes to ME3. We've done this dance months before. There's really no point in rehashing the same shit we said then. Which is pretty much all we're doing at the moment.

well y'know bill here's the thing. that's just fine with me honestly i don't care if you agree with me or not, nor do i really care if this conversation continues or not. i'm not really trying to convince you or anyone else about anything, i'm just stating my opinion. but both times, these "dances" began when i simply stated my opinion about something and you felt the need to either quote me or refer to me, or in some other way address what i said in order to remind me of how wrong you think i am.

now that's just fine with me, because again, personally i have no problem with these little discussions; i'm not the one saying we should agree to disagree. as i said earlier i'm pretty much grinning through most of this as i find it amusing. but you can't seriously tell someone "you are wrong about this" without expecting them to step up and defend their opinion. so it's simple; you want to agree to disagree? lead by example and drop it. if you insist on telling me that i'm wrong, i'm going to insist on telling you that i'm not, just like i would expect anyone else would given the same situation. but i myself have no problem continuing these kinds of discussions as they're entertaining. especially when they happen at hours like right now when i am soooooooooo open to being distracted from the stuff i'm supposed to be doing irl.

[Brill Weave]

You really don't know when to stop do you? That's fine I'll keep going.

um. ok. so you contradict yourself by saying it's not about one thing, but it is about that same thing... and it's my problem for calling you out on it? uh no my dear bill wreave. that's your bad for not having your terminology figured out before you use them. you don't want people calling you out on that stuff? well then think it through before you say it.

So rather than address the inconsistencies and glaring omissions you choose to post definitions? Shine up that shield and armor buddy lol.

but anyways, what you're not getting is that i thought the ending was just fine. why? because the story was just fine. these "plot holes", i.e. lapses in story logic, that you and others are complaining about, actually make sense to me. hence i don't have a problem with them. your assumption is that because you didn't like the endings, everyone else shouldn't either, and anyone who does is "whiteknighting bioware". whereas i grasp, not only the story whose logic seems to escape you, but the very concept that people will react to things differently, and that what works for one person won't work for another. was it everything bioware promised? well i actually haven't read most of the presses leading up to the release, as i was avoiding everything me3-related as to not spoil anything for myself. but apparently it wasn't. that's what i don't care about. coulda shoulda woulda... i don't care. i deal with what we actually got. and what we got was just fine. if it wasn't, i'd be deriding it too. and i have no apologies about being one of the "minority" that understood the story.

Fair enough, I'll play. In your understanding of the game please explain to me how the Dark Matter plot device mentioned heavily before ME3 just up and vanished as if it never existed. A major plot point, simply gone. Interesting. I can see how you would be able to understand that. This particular plot point was a major focal point before ME3. It would have had a profound impact on the development and story in ME3. But it was simply forgotten. As an obviously more intelligent person than I, how are you able to justify the omission of this entire plot line without so much as even a cursory explanation? Do you disagree that it had the potential to completely alter the ending of ME3?

Use your head. He ordered a full retreat for ground forces. Which naturally means the Normandy, involved in the largest most crucial space battle in the history of the universe, is going to break off from the fight to go down to Earth and taxi everyone around? The entire games focuses on how the battle is bigger than one man. So why would even one ship break away where it could make a difference in order to go pick people up rather than continue the fight of the universe's life? You're thinking too hard. This was a MASSIVE unexplained head scratching event.

Way to take things out of context lol. If you recall during that exchange you were extrapolating to the point of trying to fill in the gaps with reasoning as to why this occurred. Not with logic mind you, but with blind allegiance and your imagination. You failed to acknowledge then, and now, that this particular incident was yet another inconsistency with the story.

We can keep going if you want to but again I don't particularly see the point. This is nothing more than a circular discussion at this point. All you do is avoid the points everyone else has brought to you by saying you understood the plot.

[Matthias]

You really don't know when to stop do you? That's fine I'll keep going.

again i'm not the one who suggested we should agree to disagree. that's you. so much for leading by example.

So rather than address the inconsistencies and glaring omissions you choose to post definitions? Shine up that shield and armor buddy lol.

um. let's look at the comment we're referring to shall we?

I wasn't discussing the logic of the story. I was discussing the failings on Bioware's part to address major plot holes.

as you can plainly see, you weren't actually identifying any particular inconsistencies or glaring omissions when you used those words. you were identifying what you supposedly were and weren't discussing... and i was demonstrating that actually those are the same things. again try to keep up k? you're working so hard to validate your opinion of my comments that you're ignoring things that are plain as day.

and really if anything, the person who was playing around with words was you. "i wasn't talking about storyline logic! i was talking about plot holes!" "i wasn't angry! i was just worked up!" "i wasn't insulting him! i was just telling it like it is!" potato po-tah-to blah blah blah.

ahh i can just imagine your next response to this: "oh now you're using my past posts to show that i'm contradicting my current posts?" um. yes. yes i am.

again. you don't want to be called out on this stuff, think it through a little bit more. think a little harder.

Fair enough, I'll play. In your understanding of the game please explain to me how the Dark Matter plot device mentioned heavily before ME3 just up and vanished as if it never existed. A major plot point, simply gone. Interesting. I can see how you would be able to understand that. This particular plot point was a major focal point before ME3. It would have had a profound impact on the development and story in ME3. But it was simply forgotten. As an obviously more intelligent person than I, how are you able to justify the omission of this entire plot line without so much as even a cursory explanation?

well first let's clarify a few things. first of all dark energy was mentioned in anything beyond a passing reference in two contexts: by gianna parisini on illium after you help her nail that mod smuggler, and in tali's missions; her recruitment and her loyalty. and let's note that in her loyalty mission, it's mentioned briefly at the very end; only her recruitment mission really makes a big deal out of it. arrival kinda sorta references it, but not in any kind of "looming danger" kind of a way, that i can remember anyway. veetor also mentions it briefly in the freedom's progress mission i think, but again only in passing. so, considering strong references to dark energy constitute maybe 3-4 hours out of a 40+ hour game, plus another 40+ hours for me1 since we're talking about "before ME3", i'm not really sure how that translates to being "mentioned heavily before ME3".

so, as an obviously more intelligent person than you, i can justify it in the same way that i can justify the omission of thorian, major kyle, that big orb you find where you put the consort's trinket and get some vision, loyalty missions for zaeed, jacob, and garrus, and all the things that are accomplished in project: firewalker, a plot device which had an entire dlc devoted to it and yet was barely, if at all referenced, in me3: it was simply determined not to make a difference. that's really all there is to it.

Do you disagree that it had the potential to completely alter the ending of ME3?

not at all. it certainly had potential. just like the thorian, major kyle, that big orb you find where you put the consort's trinket and get some vision, loyalty missions for zaeed, jacob, and garrus, and all the things that are accomplished in project: firewalker, a plot device which had an entire dlc devoted to it and yet was barely, if at all referenced, in me3

so your logic here is, "it could have been mentioned, but it wasn't, so therefore the ending doesn't make sense"? really? that's your argument really? to me they were fun side stories that, as you said, had potential, but by no means were essential. what you think the thorian should have been revived to take down the reapers? you think whether vido santiago died or not should have factored into the ending as welL? should major kyle have been the secret weapon which finally marks the turning point?

or better yet let's factor in every recruitment and loyalty mission as this massively important factor in the ending. the prison ship was blown up, and that one prisoner who sends an e-mail to shepard hooks up with mordin's assistant and goes to save some of the tossaway krogan from okeer's experiment and they together figure out that the factory in zorya that we blew up was a conduit for dark energy. now if vido survived zaeed's loyalty mission, he hooks up with fade from garrus's loyalty mission and rebuilds to factory, with funding from all the people from that party that shepard & kasumi went to, that was purchased by miranda's father and was the beginning of the research that would eventually lead to the developments at horizon, the first victim of which was that guy who wanted to get expel 10 tickets for morinth........

yeah i think it's just easier to say some stuff were just side stories... especially stuff that only encapsulated 3-4 out of 80+ hours of gameplay.

Way to take things out of context lol. If you recall during that exchange you were extrapolating to the point of trying to fill in the gaps with reasoning as to why this occurred. Not with logic mind you, but with blind allegiance and your imagination. You failed to acknowledge then, and now, that this particular incident was yet another inconsistency with the story.

not at all. you simply couldn't, or refused to, see beyond what you were currently able/chose to see. and your inability to see the logic of the arguments i was making by no means makes them the result of "blind allegiance and my imagination". and now this particular incident is yet another example of such fault.

We can keep going if you want to but again I don't particularly see the point. This is nothing more than a circular discussion at this point. All you do is avoid the points everyone else has brought to you by saying you understood the plot.

um this from the guy who at one point just said "ok i'm not going to bother responding just go back and read what was already said", directed at the guy who quotes everything you say and responds to every paragraph one by one?

Shine up that shield and armor buddy lol.

[Brill Weave]

Ok I'm done. I've had my fill of retardation at this point. You're so far gone it's like talking to a Bioware rep. Wait. Sorry, I forgot. Even some Bioware reps said the ending wasn't good.

[Matthias]

Ok I'm done. I've had my fill of retardation at this point. You're so far gone it's like talking to a Bioware rep. Wait. Sorry, I forgot. Even some Bioware reps said the ending wasn't good.

All you do is avoid the points everyone else has brought to you

*grins* potato po-tah-to, pot kettle pot...

nice talkin with ya hun.

[Kuya]

Cliffnotes on whatever it is that they're whining about

[Brill Weave]

Cliffnotes on whatever it is that they're whining about

You're wrong, no you're wrong, no you're wrong, etc.

[BaneTheBrawler]

i think vid game customers have a hard time understanding that video game developers don't owe them anything. Game companies can't tell customers this because it's considered bad customer handling.

there were some people who took it too far. BBB getting involved, etc. but if they don't owe us anything, we don't owe them anything either. i can hate their ending as a piece of shit and tell everyone about it if i want to.

also lol @ matt thinking we're not "grasping" the ending. bitch we understood it just fine. it was just terrible.

[Kuya]

Of course you don't owe them anything. It's a company and you're involved in a business transaction. You nor they owe anything beyond the buying and selling of the product.

[Anoat]

Can we go back to talking about space titties please

[Matthias]

also lol @ matt thinking we're not "grasping" the ending. bitch we understood it just fine. it was just terrible.

uh huh.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4v0X8nDtsO...DealWithIt.png

[Eticket]

Can we go back to talking about space titties please

Kelly > *

[Charismatic]

Nah, mid tier as fuck right there.
I'd Ashley first.

[Elcura]

again, a galaxy that was being systematically overrun by the reapers, yes. shepard sure as hell got that, or whatever was left of it.

So? Shepard still got the galaxy on his side despite their differences and other shit going on. Hell, you spend 3 games cultivating sexual favours so that eventually everyone will help you fight the reapers. Yes, fight, and what do you do when you fight? Either way, I wanted a fight, and what I got was a stage of bullshit already dealt with then a long ass ending that didn't have anything interesting in it. Hell, I would've been fine with the original ending if the actual last level was anything like ME2 (which is a real final level).

uh yeah you spent three games getting the galaxy on your side, and you also spent three games learning that that was not enough, that even then the reapers couldn't be beaten conventionally, which is why the crucible was necessary. but in this particular fan fic/alternate ending, all of a sudden all that goes out the window just cos shepard gives a speech?

ME1: What are Reapers?
ME2: Those are Reapers.
ME3: We have to fight the Reapers.

Before ME1 was just let petting. ME2 was actual foreplay and ME3 is the real deal. You didn't spend 3 games learning the reapers were unbeatable, you spent 2 games cockblocking them while gathering the entire galaxy as an ally. Unbeatable was just words, because as far as the games went Shepard was just fine. Even after dying.

Also, who says Crucible isn't a factor? And what was conventional for the reapers was slowly decimating the galaxy because all the races were too stupid or stubborn to work together to drive them off. No one stood a chance against the reapers alone, so having Shepard rally the entire galaxy to help him win would've been worth seeing. Hell, even as a distraction while Shepard does the impossible (YET AGAIN) to win would've been better...

Oh... Oh I get it now. Brill, I got it.

You love the Reapers. You fucking adore them, hell, you're so bent out of shape by them you can't even think right (INDOCTRINATION, lol). And you're satisfied by the only tidbit of real information given by them. Gross.

so rather than the dumb talk with the star child, you'd prefer:

me1: reapers can't be beaten conventionally
me2: reapers can't be beaten conventionally
me3: reapers can't be beaten conventionally... but shepard gives a speech so they're beaten conventionally.

right.

Yes. That is EXACTLY what I'm saying.

Reaper lover.

[Jaybar]

I just thought Bioware wanted a fiction-novel ending, where you must make a sacrifice to save others. In ME3 the sacrifice was either chaotic good or benevolent good (and bad if you sucked) depending on your choice. I honestly wasn't expecting some epic space battle centered around Earth and coming out alive. I was actually expecting the Crucible to have some kind of magic power to defeat them the whole time at some great cost. The whole time it was Crucible this Crucible that. Gather the materials for the Crucible because without it the Reapers are unstoppable (see: History).