What's Better?

[Atoreis]

Kila+2 if you're getting anything out of the added stats, generally.

Atma of the Banisher (10% darkness damage) vs Atma of the Beyond (30MAB) for Sanguine Blade brew? I could work this out myself but I don't know a concrete figure on either how much MAB brew adds or the MDB of the mob in question (Apademak). Other two Atma are Cosmos and Ultimate.

Banisher

[Raen Ryong]

Cheers~

[Esvedium]

Blade: Hi & Evisceration (outside abyssea)
Shadow gorget or +3% crit rate wivre gorget.

I assume with evis's low ftp that shadow gorget would be better, unsure for Hi.

[Byrthnoth]

Evisc (6.0) has higher fTP than Hi (5.0), unless I'm forgetting something. Remember that each additional hit (and offhand) count as fTP+1.

For Evisc, at least, I'd compare Love Torque as well.

[Kametame]

Burattinaios or Verethragna?

Burattinaios gives the automaton a 10 TP/tic regain.
Assume full PUP AF3+2 for a TP set. Assume that the aftermath from Verethragna can proc alongside the set bonus. (A PUP has claimed doing 800+ crit hits on one fist on alla.)
Also assume that I'll be using Sharpshot on both. (Armor Piercer does around 2400 damage)

[Esvedium]

Evisc (6.0) has higher fTP than Hi (5.0), unless I'm forgetting something. Remember that each additional hit (and offhand) count as fTP+1.

For Evisc, at least, I'd compare Love Torque as well.

Damnit, forgot about the fTP from extra hits. herpderp.

So, for evis/:hi outside of abyssea:
Gorget, 3% crit rate wivre gorget, love torque (for evis)?

More curious about Hi, which I'm working on building a set for, ideally with Leonine Mask, AF3+2 body, Iga Back for crit rate. Will getting another 3% crit rate on Hi out-average the fTP boost from gorget? (11% crit rate from gear +fTP from gorget vs 14% crit rate from gear)

[kamugi]

Damnit, forgot about the fTP from extra hits. herpderp.

So, for evis/:hi outside of abyssea:
Gorget, 3% crit rate wivre gorget, love torque (for evis)?

More curious about Hi, which I'm working on building a set for, ideally with Leonine Mask, AF3+2 body, Iga Back for crit rate. Will getting another 3% crit rate on Hi out-average the fTP boost from gorget? (11% crit rate from gear +fTP from gorget vs 14% crit rate from gear)

I been trying to get a 3% crit rate neck forever now, I think they might cap at 2% honestly. At 3% I would definitely use it over gorget for Hi outside, at 2% I dont think its worth the -inventory. And hope beats gorget for hi if your attack isn't capped too, but not by a lot, so if you don't have it, I wouldn't put much effort into acquiring it, they could add something even better soon! And we all know how terrible sea drop rates are.

[TacoTaru]

Inside Abyssea for Raging Rush I'm using Grim with Zerk down, Zahaks with Zerk up. Outside should I be using the same thing, or Adaberk Zerk down, Zahaks Zerk up?

[Mercilessturtle]

You shouldn't be doing either of those. Inside zahaks, outside grim.

[Kidnoftle]

I been trying to get a 3% crit rate neck forever now, I think they might cap at 2% honestly. At 3% I would definitely use it over gorget for Hi outside, at 2% I dont think its worth the -inventory. And hope beats gorget for hi if your attack isn't capped too, but not by a lot, so if you don't have it, I wouldn't put much effort into acquiring it, they could add something even better soon! And we all know how terrible sea drop rates are.

Lol thanks, I'll take this as your reply

[Niiro]

Inside Abyssea for Raging Rush I'm using Grim with Zerk down, Zahaks with Zerk up. Outside should I be using the same thing, or Adaberk Zerk down, Zahaks Zerk up?

You shouldn't be doing either of those. Inside zahaks, outside grim.

Inside you're looking at 5 STR and 30 atk vs 3% crit rate.... with no zerk I don't see zahak's 3% winning when you're already at 74% crit rate.

Outside adaberk could win if it broke a critical (ha) point in your dDex but it's a crap shoot, grim's STR/ATK is what it is.

[TacoTaru]

Good to know. Other than Grim +1, is there anything practical to obtain that's going to beat out Grim?

[Mercilessturtle]

Already having a high crit rate doesn't matter, but yeah I did remember wrong. If your average pdif is below 2 grim > zahak, if it is above then the reverse. Generalizing that to "zerk up vs zerk down" will work for bigger NMs, but on trash mobs and lower/older NMs you are probably breaking the 2 pdif mark without berserk.

Thinking about it a little more, the "zerk up zahak, zerk down grim" probably applies better outside abyssea, where you are pretty much guaranteed that none of the attack on your ws body is doing anything with berserk up.

[Mojo]

Having a high crit rate does matter, it experiences the same type of diminishing marginal returns that attack does.

[Byrthnoth]

Yeah, also high crit rate makes Attack a bit less important.

[Niiro]

Having a high crit rate does matter, it experiences the same type of diminishing marginal returns that attack does.

The more appropriate distinction rather being the atk will always provide an increase unless you're completely capped and 30 (40, really) attack is a lot to hedge against 3% crit.

Thinking about it a little more, the "zerk up zahak, zerk down grim" probably applies better outside abyssea, where you are pretty much guaranteed that none of the attack on your ws body is doing anything with berserk up.

This is true, it's easy to forget level correction is virtually non-existent outside abyssea at the moment.

[Mercilessturtle]

Having a high crit rate does matter, it experiences the same type of diminishing marginal returns that attack does.

Just because it has diminishing returns, doesn't mean it matters. Yes, crit rate's increase to damage as a percentage of total damage decreases as you add more, but so does attack's which is what we're comparing to. Add in the fact that increased crit rate devalues attack and it ends up so small that it doesn't matter.

[Mojo]

Just because it has diminishing returns, doesn't mean it matters. Yes, crit rate's increase to damage as a percentage of total damage decreases as you add more, but so does attack's which is what we're comparing to. Add in the fact that increased crit rate devalues attack and it ends up so small that it doesn't matter.

Since you seemed to think that an average non crit pDIF of 2.0 was the magic number, I'll go by that.

+3% critical hit rate is going to increase your pDIF by an average of 0.03.

cRate	pDIF	Marginal Gain
24%	2.24	1.34%
74%	2.74	1.09%

So around a 20% drop in marginal gains, quite a large (relative) drop.

Approximating a +x increase in cRatio to equate to a +1.2x increase in pDIF (a fair approximation) would yield the following mob defense required in order for the 33.75 Attack to overcome the 3% critical hit rate (assuming a base non crit pDIF of 2.0.)

cRate	pDIF	Defense
24%	2.24	1350
74%	2.74	1355

Mobs with defense that high simply don't exist. Zahak's would never be better than Grim unless you can be absolutely certain that your cRatio was already capped. In those cases, Twilight Mail might even be a better option due +1/+2 WSC and the real possibility of a significant dDEX function change.

[Arthars]

atma for gandiva

RR/VV/Sea daughter or RR/VV/GH or RR/??/??

talking about normal hunting + NMs, not epeen numbers

[Mojo]

RR/GH/Scorpion Queen would put you at an 87% critical hit rate and an easy path to a 4 hit build. Seems worth considering.