What's Better?

[Ksandra]

Kamome is always the best for offhand afaik. 10% crit damage is a lot regardless of whether or not you have Hi, since jin is also crit.

hmm makes sense, so I guess it's dagger time~

[Chronosphere]

Wiki has WS DMG+2% being the cap, does it go beyond that? And currently I'm at 174 trade ins, and the best I've seen is WS DMG+1% (which I've only gotten twice total) and Crit.Hit Rate+1 on the same pair. I've gotten Crit.Hit Rate +2/3 on a few pairs, but never with WS DMG+.

I've gone through around 324 augmented cuisses and the best I've gotten so far is ACC+1/Crit Hit+3 on one pair and AGI+3 WSDMG+2% on another. Haven't seen one with both of them on it which is severely disappointing

[TheDirtyHobo]

hmm makes sense, so I guess it's dagger time~

In general, DEX/acc weapons are kind of gimp right now since in abyssea you have a metric fuck-ton of accuracy with RR atma, and (pre-update) everything outside abyssea is so low a level that you don't need acc, so STR/att weapons will be better choices. I don't know if any of the new voidwatcher stuff requires acc again or not, haven't really been reading up on it.

As far as DNC goes, Phurba is hard to give up just for its overall utility, though not the greatest for dps (not terrible either). Should offhand a STR Kila+2 with it. OAT/DA are fine enough choices, too, but in general DNC doesn't get the greatest options in attack gear.

[Ksandra]

OAT/DA are fine enough choices, too, but in general DNC doesn't get the greatest options in attack gear.

hmmm well the OAT/DA daggers are mostly for tp gain not really for dps (though extra dps doesn't hurt). From what I've been reading from nonbg posts people automatically went for the OAT in order to upgrade from the joyeuse.

I think my focus def should be more about utility than dps on dnc.

[TheDirtyHobo]

Honestly, I've always found the waltz timer to be a bigger limiting factor than TP gain, but I only play DNC solo (where between eva and shadows, I don't take much damage) or in dynamis (where I have haste and march). Guess it just depends on what you're using DNC for.

[Ksandra]

Honestly, I've always found the waltz timer to be a bigger limiting factor than TP gain, but I only play DNC solo (where between eva and shadows, I don't take much damage) or in dynamis (where I have haste and march). Guess it just depends on what you're using DNC for.

even soloing I would think the eva dagger would be more important than having the str offhanded, which was something I was also considering getting but probably further down the line. group situation wouldn't need to worry about eva as much so is more about supporting the party (at least for how I play, I kinda treat dnc as an extra bard that can cure more often lol.)

[Moridam]

Apologies if this has been answered already, but for MNK in abyssea, does SS beat out Apoc for overall damage now? Smite definitely seemed to have a much higher average going RR/GH/SS, but I don't know if that's enough to outweigh the increase in TP gain from apoc.

[Dooom]

Another monk question: for Ascetic's/Asuran/Smite, does Faith Torque ever beat WS gorget?

[Phoenyx]

Another monk question: for Ascetic's/Asuran/Smite, does Faith Torque ever beat WS gorget?

Think gorget will win against Faith, but Ire torque(+1) wins for Smite in certain situations.

[Byrthnoth]

It is important not to understate what a time commitment the DA+10 dagger would be. That said, it makes an excellent main hand (D45) and gives a TP gain boost that's pretty comparable to the OAT.

13% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA. Without Saber Dance (20% DA), you average 1.355 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.283 attacks per round with the DA+10.

With Saber Dance: 33% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA, you average 1.51 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.48 attacks per round with DA+10.

You benefit from higher mainhand base damage (+1 weapon rank, D45 instead of D44 or D43). Overall, I'd put the DA+10 Parazonium as a better all-around option than the OAT, but there's no denying that it's a harder path.

[Motenten]

Modified my spreadsheet a little...

Can you repost the url for these, I can't seem to find it and it would be nice to pull down the updated versions.

If you were actually asking about my spreadsheets, they can be found here.

They've been updated with the new crit damage cap, and drk has been revamped (but haven't worked in SE damage again yet). Also factored Zanshin in on drk while I was rewriting it (but realize now that I made one mistake, need to fix), but haven't done that on sam yet.

Also have to update all the default crit merits from 4% to 5%.

[Ocara]

tweaking my ascetic's build a little. what's better, genbu's kabuto (15 vit) or tantra crown +2/aias bonnet (7/8 str). obviously MKD hat w/ ws dmg is best, but that involves, yknow, doing MKD. or is there something else (not maat's cap) that's better?

thanks!

edit: assuming inside abyssea.

Use genbucket for head on fury.

[Ksandra]

It is important not to understate what a time commitment the DA+10 dagger would be. That said, it makes an excellent main hand (D45) and gives a TP gain boost that's pretty comparable to the OAT.

13% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA. Without Saber Dance (20% DA), you average 1.355 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.283 attacks per round with the DA+10.

With Saber Dance: 33% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA, you average 1.51 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.48 attacks per round with DA+10.

You benefit from higher mainhand base damage (+1 weapon rank, D45 instead of D44 or D43). Overall, I'd put the DA+10 Parazonium as a better all-around option than the OAT, but there's no denying that it's a harder path.

hmmm ty ty this is what I needed!

[savain]

Has anyone played around with MS? Used it in Xarca for 1.5 with SA + TP gear and got to remembering how it used to be good. I have a Daka+2 but I'm wondering if MS might make a comeback with the right gear setup.

[Palides]

Has anyone played around with MS? Used it in Xarca for 1.5 with SA + TP gear and got to remembering how it used to be good. I have a Daka+2 but I'm wondering if MS might make a comeback with the right gear setup.

I imagine it is the same as it was before the cap raise. Great to Stack SA + dex gear + Ass Charge. Great on High def mobs.

Otherwise DE, and to a lesser extent Evisc will consistently pull higher numbers. The mods and multi hit nature of the latter two ws are just too much.

Sounds like you had TA proc, and perhaps triplus and +2 set bonus.

[savain]

I was using THF knife offhand and the set bonus doesn't activate on WS. At 75 on birds MS would consistently do more damage than DE and Evi for me, doing 1.3k+. At that time nobody used Evi and there weren't that many crit hit rate boosting items or JA's. DE used to do 1k+, usually capping at the 1.5/1.6 mark. Acc at 75 without madrigal for a well geared / merited thief using a pizza +1 was in the lower 80's, and pizza didn't last long.

I was messing with MS on EP buffalo vs. Rudra's without food, similar equipment, and it wasn't parsing that far behind. Thinking if I tweak my STR mods enough it can be on par / slightly behind Rudra's, giving me more level 3 on-the-spot skillchain options

(Though yeah, I meant while stacking)

[Palides]

I was using THF knife offhand and the set bonus doesn't activate on WS. At 75 on birds MS would consistently do more damage than DE and Evi for me, doing 1.3k+. At that time nobody used Evi and there weren't that many crit hit rate boosting items or JA's. DE used to do 1k+, usually capping at the 1.5/1.6 mark. Acc at 75 without madrigal for a well geared / merited thief using a pizza +1 was in the lower 80's, and pizza didn't last long.

I was messing with MS on EP buffalo vs. Rudra's without food, similar equipment, and it wasn't parsing that far behind. Thinking if I tweak my STR mods enough it can be on par / slightly behind Rudra's, giving me more level 3 on-the-spot skillchain options

Thanks for the correction on set bonus.

Again, I will state that if you are OUTSIDE Abyssea, the mods of DE [and again, to a lesser extent Evisc] will be greater than the output you will get from Mandalic. Its just math. As I said previously, its great to stack with SA, and its great to stack with SA+Ass Charge, but aside from that you will get greater returns on damage in other situations by using other weapon skills [as always this will depend on your buffs, food, dDEX, acc rate, etc -- this was why it was always a decent choice on high def mobs at 75 -- ala Tia, Nid and such.]

edit: I'm not sure why you would mess with your strength mods at all considering that its 30% Dex.

[Atoreis]

It is important not to understate what a time commitment the DA+10 dagger would be. That said, it makes an excellent main hand (D45) and gives a TP gain boost that's pretty comparable to the OAT.

13% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA. Without Saber Dance (20% DA), you average 1.355 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.283 attacks per round with the DA+10.

With Saber Dance: 33% DA (Atheling/Twilight/Brutal/Epona's) and 3% TA, you average 1.51 attacks per round with the OAT (across both hands) and 1.48 attacks per round with DA+10.

You benefit from higher mainhand base damage (+1 weapon rank, D45 instead of D44 or D43). Overall, I'd put the DA+10 Parazonium as a better all-around option than the OAT, but there's no denying that it's a harder path.

Can't you make DA dagger with cleave like BLU?

[Plow]

Dagger has hippos early on but other than that yes.

[Byrthnoth]

You can, but I did all the hard stages of dagger before Abyssea (actually for OA2-4). Even in Abyssea, I got a solid PDT ring and Refresh pin for my helpers cleaving the lizards stage of the OA2-4. Probably shouldn't underestimate how long it takes to kill like 500 mobs even in a cleave.