Random Question Thread XVIII: Just an Ordinary Sword of Legend

[Hanyoko]

What exactly does it mean for a WS to have a Light or Darkness skillchain property? I can't find any information on what skillchains can be made with level 3 properties...

If it has a Tier3 property it can followup a T3 skillchain to make another T3 effect (often called "double light" or "double darkness"). T3 attributes do not count for gorgets/belts, only T2 or T1 properties do.
Relic weaponskills and Magian weaponskills contain T3 properties.

[Greatguardian]

Can the mnk sub war, fulltime counterstance, rr, gh, ss, be good? Use sushi to be extra sure no acc issues, solo heal whm/sch? Or /nin with otherwise stated JAs and atmas?

If you're worried about keeping him alive, /Nin is fine, but there's really no need for Sushi. SS is a waste of an atma slot on Mnk as well, kinda surprised no one's brought that up yet. If your MNK has access to Apoc atma, Apoc, RR, and then a tossup between VV or GH is ideal assuming he has enough Merit Abyssites to not need an HP atma. VV edges out GH on my Vereth according to Motenten's spreadsheet, but the difference is small and GH comes with superior Defensive traits. If he doesn't have Apoc, RR, VV, and GH together are likely his best bet (A&O while tanking is not fun).

Even if you're subbing Nin though, I would fulltime Counterstance and only use utsusemi to block TP moves or in an emergency anyways. You give up a ton of damage by negating your ability to counter. Since Indrik's Spear gets stronger the more times he uses Momento, you don't want the fight to drag on too long.

[Dathus]

Low-man strat for Manganaganaganal?

[Katoke]

lolOldContent I know, but has zeni per pic surpassed a certain amount with the newer mobs and their higher level? Any NMs that give > the 65 sea flower that anyone has found?

[Katoke]

Low-man strat for Manganaganaganal?

Duo'd RDM and NIN, can probably be done THF and RDM too. Just use evasion atmas.

[Clash Perez]

For Dancer (and I imagine Thief in Abyssea), the high attacks/swing we have without Twilight diminishes the usefulness of it. So normally you'd expect Twilight to give +.12 Attacks per round. In Abyssea Dancer has about 33% Double Attack and 18% Triple Attack, so instead of giving +.12 Attacks per round, Twilight gives +.07 Attacks per round, less than a 5% increase (assuming it takes priority over all other types of multi-attack). For Dancer, DA+10% actually gives a larger hits/round bonus than QA+3% and the dagger has better DPS from the start. 40/190 is kind of weak these days. Thief has at least 30% Triple Attack in Abyssea (I think?), so they'd see a similar problem.

Meanwhile, the dagger has 3 fewer base damage than any completed Kila +2. So if you figure that the 25 Attack on the STR Kila +2 increase your Attack by 5% (500 attack before percentage based buffs doesn't seem unreasonable), then the STR Kila +2 has better base damage while providing the same bonus to your main hand.

Late to the game, but the same increased attack rate favors the 0-10 TP drain of the dagger, which seems like it would be even more favorable to DNC than THF. I don't know of anyone who has parsed the rate of HP/MP/TP drains, but from loleyeballing it seems like a fairly even split. It may not be enough for Twilight to take the lead, but it's worth considering in the comparison.

[Dathus]

Duo'd RDM and NIN, can probably be done THF and RDM too. Just use evasion atmas.

Straight tank the whole way or..?

[Trix]

What conditions need to be met before a campaign battle can happen in the main strongholds of the beastmen?

[Katoke]

Straight tank the whole way or..?

Yes, capped eva and evasion merits/atmas/gear, should have no issue keeping shadows up with haste.

[Byrthnoth]

Late to the game, but the same increased attack rate favors the 0-10 TP drain of the dagger, which seems like it would be even more favorable to DNC than THF. I don't know of anyone who has parsed the rate of HP/MP/TP drains, but from loleyeballing it seems like a fairly even split. It may not be enough for Twilight to take the lead, but it's worth considering in the comparison.

I don't know. I would want to try to parse it. I'd say ~20% TP drain proc rate, ~2-3 TP drained on average. It will only make a difference if it procs twice per trip to 100TP on average.

[Darkmagi]

Duo'd RDM and NIN, can probably be done THF and RDM too. Just use evasion atmas.

Evasion Atmas? Just go full DD atma... seems rather stupid to waste an atma on evasion when it's acc should be floored regardless.

[Francisco]

Upper limits of Victory Smite damage in abyssea without Primeval Brew? I've seen it spike close to 7000 with Stalwart's Gambir and Impetus, but I also remember seeing a screenshot here of Ascetic's Fury breaking 8000.

[Motenten]

For Dancer (and I imagine Thief in Abyssea), the high attacks/swing we have without Twilight diminishes the usefulness of it. So normally you'd expect Twilight to give +.12 Attacks per round. In Abyssea Dancer has about 33% Double Attack and 18% Triple Attack, so instead of giving +.12 Attacks per round, Twilight gives +.07 Attacks per round, less than a 5% increase (assuming it takes priority over all other types of multi-attack). For Dancer, DA+10% actually gives a larger hits/round bonus than QA+3% and the dagger has better DPS from the start. 40/190 is kind of weak these days. Thief has at least 30% Triple Attack in Abyssea (I think?), so they'd see a similar problem.

Meanwhile, the dagger has 3 fewer base damage than any completed Kila +2. So if you figure that the 25 Attack on the STR Kila +2 increase your Attack by 5% (500 attack before percentage based buffs doesn't seem unreasonable), then the STR Kila +2 has better base damage while providing the same bonus to your main hand.

Well, this motivated me to go in and update the spreadsheet to handle quad attack properly (previously fudged it as 4% triple attack instead of 3% quad attack), and in so doing found a number of other errors, such as double attack still having priority over triple attack (apparently I hadn't gotten back to the dnc spreadsheet when I fixed the others), and certain values cross-contaminating between the two gear sets. Also filled out the dagger list for gear selection better.

In any case, the revised version substantiates your claim there pretty well. With fire Kila mainhand, offhand order is something like: STP Fusetto = fire Kila > DA Para > thunder Kila > Twilight. Though the TP drain on Twilight makes things a bit fuzzy, there's enough of a gap between it and even the thunder Kila that it won't be winning on damage.

[Byrthnoth]

That's almost exactly what I get too. The STP dagger always comes out as a pretty competitive option for me, and I don't particularly regret making it. I would theoretically use it in situations where I'm attack capped with support, if I was ever in those situations.

DDing for me:
Twashtar
STR/Atk Kila +2
STP Fusetto +2

Evasion: (obviously keeping Twashtar if I can)
2 AGI/Eva Kila +2

For Aeolian Edge, often with Fan Dance and no multi-hit Atma:
Martial Knife
OA2-4 Parazonium +2 <--- holy shit it has a use


Edit:
I guess I should clarify a little. On many NMs I find that an AGI/Eva Kila +2 offhand makes the difference between comfortably using a Haste/SB/Eva set versus a full-on evasion set. It is a shitload of Evasion in one slot. In those situations, using an AGI/Eva Kila +2 is the best DD offhand.

Also, I have a Dex/Acc Kila +2 that I never use because I don't need Acc for jack shit anymore.

Double Edit:
Assuming no one is on again, I'm going into Abyssea tonight to try and nail down Saber Dance's effect again using Double Attack Atma and crap. Control and then 3 minute Saber Dance groups planned.

[Karbuncle]

I don't know. I would want to try to parse it. I'd say ~20% TP drain proc rate, ~2-3 TP drained on average. It will only make a difference if it procs twice per trip to 100TP on average.

The Drain rate is at about 7~10, not counting full-resist (Dark/undead) or mob having no TP to drain, depending on mobs resistance/current TP, On Average, I get 8-10TP almost every drain, with a rare 6-7 occasionally.

on NMs its usually around the 3~7Range, still possible for 9-10

[Byrthnoth]

The Drain rate is at about 7~10, not counting full-resist (Dark/undead) or mob having no TP to drain, depending on mobs resistance/current TP, On Average, I get 8-10TP almost every drain, with a rare 6-7 occasionally.

on NMs its usually around the 3~7Range, still possible for 9-10

Really? I guess I mostly fought NMs with it before I got Twashtar, but I'd say my average was around 3. I remember seeing a 9 at one point and going, "Holy shit! New record!" about a week into owning the knife.

[Clash Perez]

Looks like we need some parsing. I'll see how well KParser handles it later, if I can get the free-time. Off-handing the highest delay 1-h weapon I can find seems like the best bet to try to minimize skewing the parse due to insufficient mob TP. Too bad I've thrown away all of those relic daggers/katanas.

Hopefully KParser will track the TP drain value. Motenten can probably answer this, if he's still reading.

[Motenten]

Looks like we need some parsing. I'll see how well KParser handles it later, if I can get the free-time. Off-handing the highest delay 1-h weapon I can find seems like the best bet to try to minimize skewing the parse due to insufficient mob TP. Too bad I've thrown away all of those relic daggers/katanas.

Hopefully KParser will track the TP drain value. Motenten can probably answer this, if he's still reading.

Unfortunately that's not implemented yet; or rather, partially implemented, and not reported anywhere. I'll have to see about updating it.

[Mrbeansman]

Hands for Dancer tp now that I can cap haste without the hands slot?

[Motenten]

On the Moonshade Earring, what's the damage bonus scale for the "Occ. grants dmg. bonus based on TP +5%" augment? Is, for example, 300 TP a 3x damage bonus, a 3x damage multiplier, or maybe a 30% damage bonus, or something else entirely?