BG Auto - Am I getting fucked?

[Atreides]

yes to what lol

[Acturus]

Tbh, if you've found a good mechanic, try to take the majority of your services to them as long as prices are close to others. They tend to be really loyal to returning customers, and will usually help you out when you really need it.

I can attest to this. I know the guys at a particular Tire Kingdom, and it helps that I've also been in the Tire Kingdom system since 2002, so they know I have history with the company, and the store manager and service manager know me by name. I just brought my minivan in to them this afternoon while they were slammed with 10 other cars to have two tires replaced, an alignment and an oil change, and not only did they get my car done in 2 hours (I think I skipped the line a bit), but they shaved off about $80 from the standard prices because I am a regular customer.

[Skyylya]

has it really been worth all the hassle over saving maybe a hundred bucks?

You spent more money on a hybrid civic than a standard civic would cost and i'm sure your fuel efficiency hasn't saved you all that much money. Just spend the money get it fixed and move on with your life, or do the smart thing and since it's 7 years old just trade it in for a new one. it should be paid off after this much time so you don't have any negative equity and could probably get a pretty good vehicle.

[Melchiah]

has it really been worth all the hassle over saving maybe a hundred bucks?

You spent more money on a hybrid civic than a standard civic would cost and i'm sure your fuel efficiency hasn't saved you all that much money. Just spend the money get it fixed and move on with your life, or do the smart thing and since it's 7 years old just trade it in for a new one. it should be paid off after this much time so you don't have any negative equity and could probably get a pretty good vehicle.

This line of thinking is why I could never make a dollar turning a wrench. People are so accustomed to having that $300-$600 a month car payment that it never occurs to them how much they save by buying a car and driving it for ten years. $500 repair bill? Shiiiiit, I'll just buy another one.

You know, because $500 to repair your existing vehicle is not preferable to spending $20,000 +/- on a new car.

[Dryr]

I'm not a mechanic, but I have at least replaced a battery a few times. Shoppes will charge well over a hundred for the exact same thing that a parts store will charge 60-70 for.

[miokomioko]

I'm not a mechanic, but I have at least replaced a battery a few times. Shoppes will charge well over a hundred for the exact same thing that a parts store will charge 60-70 for.

Yeah, even if a job literally takes less than 5 minutes (on top of being painfully easy), they will never charge you less than 1 full hour of labor ($80~$100/hr) unless you know them personally.

[Ramor]

Not true. An honest shop won't fuck you like that, but dishonest ones will.

true story, my family has been taking cars to the same auto-shop for like 25 years, i swear i could blow my fucking car up and they'd just buy me a new one and sell it back to me at less than what they bought it for, i'm not sure about other places but the guys at that particular auto-shop always charge me like 0$ for labor and basically just charge me for the parts (like when i busted a mirror, i brought it to them and they replaced the entire thing like like 10 minutes and all it cost me was the mirror itself which they ordered for me)

[miokomioko]

And therein lies is the problem. Most shops are dishonest.

[Skyylya]

This line of thinking is why I could never make a dollar turning a wrench. People are so accustomed to having that $300-$600 a month car payment that it never occurs to them how much they save by buying a car and driving it for ten years. $500 repair bill? Shiiiiit, I'll just buy another one.

You know, because $500 to repair your existing vehicle is not preferable to spending $20,000 +/- on a new car.

Because spending 500$ for you to fix something this week, and then another 500 next week. and another few thousand in a couple months when something else breaks down that you didn't fix one of the last times i brought you my vehicle so now it's more expensive. Or hell, how about the 500$ repair you told me I really needed but probably didn't. That stuff adds up over this 10 year period you are talking about.

Plus there's nothing wrong with upgrading. you don't get maximum value out of your vehicle by driving it 10 years after you pay it off any more than if you trade it in and get max dollar for what it's currently worth and getting a nicer more modern vehicle in the process.

If you have a vehicle completely paid off and you know how to negotiate a car deal you can usually get more than it's worth and lose nothing.

Case in point, I just got a new car in early december. I drove a 2006 ford focus ZX4. In august my payoff was about 6k and the vehicle is worth about 4-5k. I refinanced it to a payoff of 9k @ 19.7% interest and got 3k cash in hand to pay off some credit cards. So now i'm 2X upside down in my vehicle. I take my focus to the dealership and find a good deal with rebate incentives and get them to give me 7500 for my trade in that's worth 4.5k and they sold the car below invoice and now i'm driving a 2011 Honda Accord with a 6.5% interest rate over 72 months.

I don't think anyone could say I didn't get max value out of my focus, i'm just not a retard and know how to make a deal in my favor. Instead of driving a 2006 focus that's out of warranty and all repairs come out of my pocket i'm driving a nice brand new vehicle in manufacturer warranty.

And no i'm not retarded, but you don't have to sit in the same vehicle for 20 years to get value out of it. I got every penny out of my focus and then some.

[Melchiah]

Because spending 500$ for you to fix something this week, and then another 500 next week. and another few thousand in a couple months when something else breaks down that you didn't fix one of the last times i brought you my vehicle so now it's more expensive. Or hell, how about the 500$ repair you told me I really needed but probably didn't. That stuff adds up over this 10 year period you are talking about.

If your shit is breaking down every other week like in your example, there are two, and only two possible reasons: 1: Your shit is ancient, much more than 7 years old, and/or 2: You didn't maintain it. Furthermore, everybody likes to talk about their mechanic recommending repairs they didn't need. It's like a trope or urban legend. I worked as an ASE certified mechanic for Bridgestone/Firestone for 5 years when I was younger. Not once in that term of service did I ever falsify the condition of a customer's vehicle on an inspection, or recommend repairs that I didn't feel were needed. Never. This doesn't happen as often as people like to think it does. They don't understand mechanics, thus it's all just wizardry and not to be trusted.

Plus there's nothing wrong with upgrading. you don't get maximum value out of your vehicle by driving it 10 years after you pay it off any more than if you trade it in and get max dollar for what it's currently worth and getting a nicer more modern vehicle in the process.

I recommended trading in every ten years, not ten years after payoff. And believe it or not, there are people who are in an economic situation where they are required to repair rather than purchase anew.

If you have a vehicle completely paid off and you know how to negotiate a car deal you can usually get more than it's worth and lose nothing.

I'm going to assume that by "knowing how to negotiate" you really mean "are holding a loaded weapon". That's the only way this assertion becomes truthful. Let me clarify: You will not come out on top with regard to your trade-in value. The dealer is in business to make money, not aid your finances. He is going to estimate what he can get for your trade-in, and offer you about 75% of that number, Kelley Blue or Black price be damned. Furthermore, if you're trading in a 5+ year old vehicle, that dealer isn't going to keep it on his lot very long. If he doesn't think he can sell it quick, he's going to offer you what he thinks he can get selling wholesale to an auto auction, and I can guarantee that number will be very low. You're probably another one of those who doesn't know the difference between blue and black book prices.

Case in point, I just got a new car in early december. I drove a 2006 ford focus ZX4. In august my payoff was about 6k and the vehicle is worth about 4-5k. I refinanced it to a payoff of 9k @ 19.7% interest and got 3k cash in hand to pay off some credit cards. So now i'm 2X upside down in my vehicle. I take my focus to the dealership and find a good deal with rebate incentives and get them to give me 7500 for my trade in that's worth 4.5k and they sold the car below invoice and now i'm driving a 2011 Honda Accord with a 6.5% interest rate over 72 months.

I don't think anyone could say I didn't get max value out of my focus, i'm just not a retard and know how to make a deal in my favor. Instead of driving a 2006 focus that's out of warranty and all repairs come out of my pocket i'm driving a nice brand new vehicle in manufacturer warranty.

Ok, so in 2005 you bought a new 2006 Focus. Base MSRP for a 2011 sedan is a little over $16,000. I'll give you another 2K to cover the Z package and price disparity between '06 and '11, putting you at $18,000 sale price. How on earth did you pay for this vehicle for 5 years and still owe $6,000?

You owed $6K on the note, and you refinanced to $9K at almost 20% to pay off credit card debt. So now you owe 9K at 20%, have no cash in hand, and a car worth 4K(so you say, seems reasonable). Do you really expect anyone to believe that a dealership gave you $7500 for a $4000 car? Or even if this was true, that it should be a typical experience? How about they tacked the difference between what they gave you and the car's worth onto your loan? You sure this isn't what happened? I keep hearing Kia commercials on the radio screaming "We'll give you $5000 for ANY OLD TRADE! Push, pull or drag it in!" What they aren't telling you is that that money gets tacked onto your loan, just like all those promos claiming to pay off your current loan. It's basically just a refinance. So now you've bought a $23,000 Honda, you had $4K worth of trade in, plus 3.5K promo cash, bringing you to a net expenditure of $22,500 at 6.5%. You also owe $9,000 at 20% to the credit union or whomever you refinanced your Focus through.

If you really got what you say you did for your trade in, your experience is not typical, and you shouldn't expect everyone to assume it is. I'm of the opinion that you are badly misinformed about the terms of your loans, and got rushed into signing the paperwork because you thought you were getting a good deal. I fail to see the correlation between increasing your debt from $6K on a 5 year old car to near $30K on a new car, and a good deal.

And no i'm not retarded, but you don't have to sit in the same vehicle for 20 years to get value out of it. I got every penny out of my focus and then some.

I respectfully disagree with the first phrase in this assertion because you borrowed $9,000 to pay off your current car and credit card debt, and then bought a $22,000 car.

[kyod]

In august my payoff was about 6k and the vehicle is worth about 4-5k. I refinanced it to a payoff of 9k @ 19.7% interest and got 3k cash in hand to pay off some credit cards. So now i'm 2X upside down in my vehicle. I take my focus to the dealership and find a good deal with rebate incentives and get them to give me 7500 for my trade in that's worth 4.5k and they sold the car below invoice and now i'm driving a 2011 Honda Accord with a 6.5% interest rate over 72 months.

You really shouldn't be giving any kind of financial advice.

[Skyylya]

I purchased the vehicle used in 2007 at the dealership i WORKED FOR. I fully understand what dealerships are in the business for, and due to my personal experience in car sales I know how the numbers can be worked to get the deal done. My purchase price in 2007 was 12480 and yes halfway through the loan I still owed 6k.

I refinanced to get some cash in hand, the interest rate I refinanced at is irrelevant since I was only in the loan a few months after the refi.

The dealership did not stack my negative equity onto my new loan. As I said I looked for a good deal that had rebates etc.. and also the dealer lowered from the MSRP to below invoice which essentially soaked all that negative equity up. Dealers don't make money on gross anymore, they make it on moving units and getting money from the manufacturer for it. So when you say the dealer wouldn't give me more for my trade than it's worth, you're the one that doesn't know what you're talking about. Is my experience typical, no but as I said i've worked in the industry and know how to negotiate my deal. All that i'm paying for on my new vehicle is the cost, taxes, gap and other minimal standard fees.

So before I sold my focus, I got 3k out of it cash in hand and lowered my credit card debt increasing my credit score. A few months later after my score had a few reporting cycles to increase I walked into the dealership and worked a deal in my favor and bought a new car for not a penny more than if I walked in with no trade at all.

It also helped I used the same people that sold my wife her vehicle last year. Dealerships will take losses on sales if it means future business, future service/parts business etc... The dealer showed me all the numbers and they ended up taking an 1800 dollar loss on the sale of the vehicle.

I didn't need a loaded weapon to get the deal. I had all the ammo I need in simply understanding the process and going at, and to a place that gave me the advantage.

[Melchiah]

So to clarify, you're an industry insider, and get perks that the normal citizenry is not privy to. And you agree that your experience isn't typical. What was your point again?

[Skyylya]

I only worked for a dealership for a few months. My point is that purchasing a new vehicle is not a bad idea compared to driving the same thing for long after you've payed it off. The dealership I went to had no idea to my knowledge of the industry and no perks were receive outside of what I was able to negotiate.

People were saying that you need to drive your vehicle long term to get the most value out of it. To that statement I disagree and provided my experience, anyone could have my experience if they wanted. Most people just don't want to play the game, and end up losing because of it.

[Melchiah]

So your Honda dealer didn't stack your 9k refinance onto your loan with them. That means you now have a car note for the Honda, and you have a note for the refinance. You still owe all that money, that hasn't changed in everything you've said. You still owe 20K+ or whatever for the new Accord, and you owe the credit union the 6K they paid for your Focus loan and the 3K they paid for your credit card debt. You still went from 9K under to 30K under, and all you have to show for it is a new car. This is not sound financial advice, which is what this discussion is about at it's root.

Also, you said:

To that statement I disagree and provided my experience, anyone could have my experience if they wanted. Most people just don't want to play the game, and end up losing because of it.

But you also said:

Is my experience typical, no but as I said i've worked in the industry and know how to negotiate my deal. All that i'm paying for on my new vehicle is the cost, taxes, gap and other minimal standard fees.

Your experience is not typical. Therefore, the first statement of yours is false. Everyone cannot expect to get employee pricing.

Paying off credit card debt will not increase your credit score any appreciable amount in "a few months". Credit scores are updated quarterly, a few cycles is almost a year.

Wanna know when I decided you were blowing smoke? This little gem right here:

The dealer showed me all the numbers and they ended up taking an 1800 dollar loss on the sale of the vehicle.

You think a dealership is going to show you the real numbers? Last car I bought they tried the same shit on me, telling me they were losing money selling me the car. It's bullshit, if they were taking a loss on every car they sold they wouldn't be in business. You can't kid yourself by differentiating between invoice and invoice less dealer rebates, it's all the same thing when you sum it up. The invoice is what the dealer paid for the car on paper, invoice less rebates is their actual cost, and that's the number you are trying to get close to.

[miokomioko]

Not really

I have worked in the "industry," but we'll agree to disagree.

[Skyylya]

So your Honda dealer didn't stack your 9k refinance onto your loan with them. That means you now have a car note for the Honda, and you have a note for the refinance. You still owe all that money, that hasn't changed in everything you've said. You still owe 20K+ or whatever for the new Accord, and you owe the credit union the 6K they paid for your Focus loan and the 3K they paid for your credit card debt. You still went from 9K under to 30K under, and all you have to show for it is a new car. This is not sound financial advice, which is what this discussion is about at it's root.

Also, you said:



But you also said:



Your experience is not typical. Therefore, the first statement of yours is false. Everyone cannot expect to get employee pricing.

Paying off credit card debt will not increase your credit score any appreciable amount in "a few months". Credit scores are updated quarterly, a few cycles is almost a year.

Wanna know when I decided you were blowing smoke? This little gem right here:



You think a dealership is going to show you the real numbers? Last car I bought they tried the same shit on me, telling me they were losing money selling me the car. It's bullshit, if they were taking a loss on every car they sold they wouldn't be in business. You can't kid yourself by differentiating between invoice and invoice less dealer rebates, it's all the same thing when you sum it up. The invoice is what the dealer paid for the car on paper, invoice less rebates is their actual cost, and that's the number you are trying to get close to.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. And you're not listening at all.

When I went to purchase my new vehicle, I looked for one that had rebates, also the dealer lowered the asking price of the vehicle to below invoice and gave me a good amount for my trade. Those factors essentially removed my negative equity on my previous vehicle.

The value of my focus was let's just say 5k. Which means I needed a combined amount of 4k between lowering their asking price, and rebates. There was a 3500$ rebate on the Accord, so right there that amount is gone. Paid for by Honda...not me. They also lowered the asking price to roughly 1800$ below their invoice again, removing more of my negative equity. Between the actual amount they gave me for my trade, the rebate and them lowering the sale price of the vehicle my 9k is gone. I do not 'also' owe that in addition to my new vehicle purchase which after all was said and done was cost, taxes, gap and other standard fees.

And you have no idea about credit either. Your score changes constantly as new items are added/removed to and from your credit report. The significance of a change can determine how much and in what small or long period of time a change in your score occurs. In this case my credit score rose roughly 40 points from a mid 600 to just below 700 which puts me into a good echelon when it comes to getting interest rates, hence my 6.5% over 72 months which is an excellent rate on that length of a loan.

Not all dealers are the same. If you go to a slow dealership that doesn't move many units they make their money on selling high and making a gross profit. Dealerships that are busy and move hundreds of units a month make more money on the perks from the manufacterer so are more likely to reduce their invoice cost because they know they'll get it back. In addition to the other factors I mentioned like service business, future business.

At the end of the day I don't really care what whether you 'think' i'm blowing smoke. Your knowledge in this area is clearly very lacking. Also your play on my comments about whether my experience is typical is irrelelvant. Was my experience typical no, but it's because as I said most people don't want to play the game. They find the car buying experience a hassle and will usually just give in to get it over with than push the negotiation.

So while my experience isn't t ypical, anyone that wants to can experience it if they approach it properly by educating themselves and being proactive about where, and when they go. I wasn't contradicting myself, although I can't have expected your comprehension to be so lacking.

[Acturus]

So, back to the original argument then, which was based off of bad advice given to the OP:

Why would anyone ditch the current car over a $500, one time repair? I understand the concept of sunk cost, and if a car owner forsees multiple, high-cost repairs in the near future of his current car's life, then he should consider a better use of that money, but that is certainly not the case for the OP.

The OP's car is in good working order. Much of the list provided at the start of this thread seems to be normal wear and tear for a 7 year old vehicle. Assuming the OP has taken care of his vehicle, then this repair should be a relatively isolated incident.

At the same time, all of this legwork on non-urgent repairs is absolutely worth someone's time. People who sell cars and car parts make their money on owners who don't have time to comparison shop. The education that the OP is gaining by going to all of this trouble will be invaluable down the road (no pun intended). Every breakdown, deflated tire, blown gasket, snapped belt, brake wear, and engine light has taught me something about my vehicles. When I had the ability to take my time in correcting these issues, I have made it worth my while, both educationally and financially. This in turn has allowed me to be smarter on a number of items that I didn't have time to shop around for, as well as looking at buying and selling cars themselves.

[Melchiah]

I've demonstrated the flaws in your premises, assumptions and arguments. At this point, I choose to no longer participate in your lecture.

[Atreides]

this thread stopped being helpful a long time ago