Elemental Belts

[rog]

Does it not work if the initial hit misses?

Either way, i'm pretty sure .1 ftp does more for a 5 hit ws that misses the 4 extra hits for an effective 1.0 ftp than it does for a 5 ftp single hit ws. The benefit you get from .1 ftp depends on the ws's ftp, and unless you have 100% accuracy, a 5 hit 1.0 ftp ws does NOT the same effective ftp per ws as a 5.0 ftp single hit ws.

[Motenten]

Actually, it's -less- valuable for multihit weaponskills (assuming same total fTP of the base weaponskill) because of more chances to DA/TA, which dilute the value of the fTP bonus more.

Either way, i'm pretty sure .1 ftp does more for a 5 hit ws that misses the 4 extra hits for an effective 1.0 ftp than it does for a 5 ftp single hit ws. The benefit you get from .1 ftp depends on the ws's ftp, and unless you have 100% accuracy, a 5 hit 1.0 ftp ws does NOT the same effective ftp per ws as a 5.0 ftp single hit ws.

Er, no, that's almost completely wrong. There's a correct statement in there, but it's divorced from the reason for it being correct.

5.0 fTP single-hit weaponskill. With gorget, effective fTP is 5.1 95% of the time (assuming capped accuracy), and thus long-term damage equivalent of 4.845 fTP.

1.0 fTP 5-hit weaponskill. With gorget will get 1.1 fTP for first hit 95% of the time, and 4.0 for the remaining hits which will each land 95% of the time. Total long-term damage equivalent would thus be 1.045 + 3.80 = 4.845, exactly the same as the single-hit weaponskill.

Now factor in 10% DA.

5.0 fTP single hit gets its 4.845 plus a 10% chance of an extra hit that has 1.0 fTP and lands 95% of the time, for an extra 0.095 fTP damage, and a total of 4.94. The gorget contributed .10 fTP 95% of the time (0.095 effective), which is 1.923% of the total damage.

1.0 fTP 5-hit weaponskill gets its 4.845 plus two chances at a DA (main and offhand/secondary hit) at 10% each, leading to 0.19 extra fTP damage and a total of 5.035. However the gorget still only contributed .10 95% of the time (.095 effective), which is a 1.887% damage increase. Thus the damage contribution of the gorget for multi-hits after factoring in DA/TA is less than for single-hits.

[rog]

Meh. Ok. I was still right about them not being exactly the same

[lolwut]

PS. Don't DC right now. I keep getting "cannot connect to lobby server" errors. Was just about to start Orthrus too ; ;

Semi off topic, but this happened to me while dboxing Turul and couldn't get back on til the next day. Lost the brews I had in inventory on both chars. Q_Q

Back to topic, so what's the determination for Ukko's?

[rog]

Semi off topic, but this happened to me while dboxing Turul and couldn't get back on til the next day. Lost the brews I had in inventory on both chars. Q_Q

That belongs in random fail.

[Cairthenn]

Why would you carry brews when it's possible to lose Temps to begin with?

[lolwut]

That belongs in random fail.

I agree, but it didn't seem worth making a post for there. Mentioning it here, I could at least get an answer to my other question.

Sooo.... elemental belt or another option for Ukko's?

Why would you carry brews when it's possible to lose Temps to begin with?

Had them for Shinryuu runs, but the mnk dc'd before triggering the first one and the whm decided to leave. Had nothing else to do while waiting for him to get back on (didn't know of the server error at the time) so I went to play with Turul.

[Byrthnoth]

Probably an elemental belt on Ukko's. Assuming 30% DA in your WS gear with 15% TA from Apoc, the WS's fTP is ~4.36. Gorget gives 4.46, belt gives 4.56. 4.56/4.46 = ~2.2% increase in damage.

Best alternative option for belt is, if I'm not forgetting anything, 9 STR from Bier Belt +1.
9*.5*.85 = ~4 base damage increase from modifiers, assuming you've already capped fSTR. Outside Abyssea, you wouldn't want to use this belt because it would hurt your dDex, but you'd likely benefit from fSTR then. You should use Warwolf in that case, if not an elemental belt.

For that to be better than WS damage+2.2%, you would need to have <181 base damage during WS. With Maschu +2 being D126, you'd have to only have ~125 total STR in WS gear (I have more than that naked with Atmas).

[macross]

Last time I timed out, didn't lose the brews or any temp items. Was from a power outtage. Is it normal to lose all your temp crap or was that fixed?

[Vinedrai]

1.0 fTP 5-hit weaponskill. With gorget will get 1.1 fTP for first hit 95% of the time, and 4.0 for the remaining hits which will each land 95% of the time. Total long-term damage equivalent would thus be 1.045 + 3.80 = 4.845, exactly the same as the single-hit weaponskill.

the chance to stick all 5 hits with capped accuracy would be 0.95 ^ 5 = ~ 0.77

so the effective fTP with gorget would be around; 5.1 * 0.77 = 3.927, no?

[mcb]

Last time I timed out, didn't lose the brews or any temp items. Was from a power outtage. Is it normal to lose all your temp crap or was that fixed?

last i checked it was fixed. shouldn't be losing temp items for any reason now.

[Myrrh_Quetz]

When I forced DC'd in Abyssea for my Transplant and came back a month later I still had all my temp items. Might be a weird glitch that you had or you're lying.

[Anomander]

The last time I timed out on my mule, like 2 months ago or so (after scars update, before heroes) I didn't lose his temps. However, I timed out on my main about a week before heroes, and did. Not sure what the difference was, circumstances were the same on both (d/c's).

[pldhighlulu]

The last time I timed out on my mule, like 2 months ago or so (after scars update, before heroes) I didn't lose his temps. However, I timed out on my main about a week before heroes, and did. Not sure what the difference was, circumstances were the same on both (d/c's).

pretty sure that the difference is the zone that you get timed out in. if it's one of the original visions zones kiss your temps good bye (this just recently happened to me, but nothing of any real value was lost). where as if it's a scars or heroes zone your in the clear and temps are fine.

this isn't the only instance of the 2 zones functioning differently when you get kicked out. you can enter a scars or heroes zone, not get status, be kicked out and then immediately re-enter. If you get kicked out of a visions zone without getting status you have a 1 hour restriction placed on you.

[Arthars]

im not a super FFXI mathematician after 8 years, and please spare me with the complex long wall chuck of text of formulas and explanation pls!!! XD

just tell me

1. does ele belt >>>> angiunus belt for catastrophe
2. does ele belt >>>> crudelis belt for Hi

[ringthree]

im not a super FFXI mathematician after 8 years, and please spare me with the complex long wall chuck of text of formulas and explanation pls!!! XD

just tell me

1. does ele belt >>>> angiunus belt for catastrophe
2. does ele belt >>>> crudelis belt for Hi

Side commentary: I wish it mattered enough to do the math. In the end it is probably less than 1% difference in total damage, just like most differences in gear that get peoples panties in a bunch.

FFXI isn't WoW, there is far more randomness in the damage calculations, so much so that it becomes frustratingly difficult to model. We all make assumptions about large portions of the calculations, and when different people model them they use different assumptions, making a huge amount of the comparisons between damage models near useless.

If it was a perfect world, we would spend far less time comparing gear across these different models and far more time trying to create a universal model that we could plug new factors into to get a result we can all loosely agree upon.

P.S. Damage models are not the same as damage formulas.

[Motenten]

1.0 fTP 5-hit weaponskill. With gorget will get 1.1 fTP for first hit 95% of the time, and 4.0 for the remaining hits which will each land 95% of the time. Total long-term damage equivalent would thus be 1.045 + 3.80 = 4.845, exactly the same as the single-hit weaponskill.

the chance to stick all 5 hits with capped accuracy would be 0.95 ^ 5 = ~ 0.77

so the effective fTP with gorget would be around; 5.1 * 0.77 = 3.927, no?

No. That's a common, misguided mistake to make in trying to see the value of a weaponskill. It would only be valid if the only two possibilities were to land -all- the hits of the weaponskill, or -none-.

77% chance to land all 5 hits of a weaponskill is only a portion of all possible hit returns. You can miss any of the 5 individual hits for a variety of hit returns, all of which need to be added up to get the final probability distribution.

If you're at capped accuracy, you have the same 95% chance to land any given hit in the weaponskill. 95% chance to land the first hit and get 1.1 fTP; 95% chance to land the second hit and get 1.0 fTP; 95% chance to land the third hit and get 1.0 fTP; etc. You then add up the individual hits to get the final result. You only multiply the hit probabilities to get the value for one specific combination of hits while ignoring the others.

[Scrooge]

2. does ele belt >>>> crudelis belt for Hi

Never ran the numbers outside Abyssea, but inside, Ele Belt will beat Crudelis. Not by a whole lot, but it'll win, + give you accuracy

[Arthars]

thats what i need to hear! thanks ^^

[Atoreis]

Never ran the numbers outside Abyssea, but inside, Ele Belt will beat Crudelis. Not by a whole lot, but it'll win, + give you accuracy

I'm not so sure. :hi is 5.0 with offhand, with 18%ta and 20% da its avg at least 6.0 so 0.1 would be 1,66%.

Assuming Gh+rr+apoc
80+73+50+40=243
WSC: 243*0.6*0.85=123
D: 52+13= 65
123+65=188
wsc with belt: 126
3/188=1.6%

So Agi from belt vs 0.1 fTP should be very close. Now you need to check fSTR. Kannagi 85 is fSTR cap 13 so you need around 52str over mob vit to cap it yes?). Hi equip hardly has any STR. If you dont have maat's cap you will use anwig probably so +4. +40 from cruor buffs and +5 from food. I cant really tell whats the VIT of higher tier NMs in abyssea but probably depends on the race you will or you wont be capping fstr. So crudelis may or may not gives you addicion +1 to fSTR. For spikes with 2x TA or TA+DA or 2x DA Crudelis win with just agi too. On the other hand belt has acc and conserve TP. Other question what better sea gorget or hope torque. 5 Agi should almost equal to 0.1fTP both have acc (gorget 4 more?) but Hope has att. Tbh they all very close and its very tough to choose.

Probably with Maat's cap best would be to combo it with ele gorget and belt. With anwig str/agi/wsacc/wsdmg it might be better to go with hope and crudelis. Hard to say really.