Arizona Congresswoman + Six Others Shot and Killed

[Qalbert]

and the same type of tactics were being used on the opposite side of the aisle for the years Bush was in power. it's called politics, deal with it.

from everything we're seeing, this guy was just batshit crazy, plain and simple. we're all going to find out a whole lot about him in the next few days. quit blaming the wrong people.

in short, shut the fuck up, olo

[Kuya]

It would be pretty conveniant if the killer was well tied into glenn beck, the republicns, and the tea party, but in order for such a link to cause enough damage, you'd need very inteligent liberals who are also quite vicious. I do not think either of these things exist simultaniously within the Democratic Party.

[Pirian]

You can't make a direct physical connection, nor would you necessarily expect to. It's possible that whatever happened and whatever connections were made was all in his head, we may never know. But violent rhetoric and emotional language CAN normalize such behaviors so it is preferable to avoid it, I mean do you really want a culture where we demonize our political opponents and casually use violent imagery as a means of settling disputes over things like health care? I feel like this should be a common sense thing.

You have it all wrong! This can only help a public option for health care. Stay with me here: if the nation becomes more violent, then more people will become injured. As more people become injured, then more people will become appreciative of the fact that they were forced to get coverage for the injuries they sustained. I think you'll agree that my logic is sound.

[Tristam]

Why, yes, I certainly do remember when Rachel Maddow, Steven Colbert, and Harry Reid called for US citizens to take up "second amendment remedies" against George W. Bush...oh wait.

I think there were radio show idiots who were spouting some violent garbage against bush, but the idea that politicians and PACs can get away with it and even use it to motivate voters is a relatively new and predominantly right-wing/libertarian phenomenon.

edit: To make it clear, I think politicians and PACs should have the RIGHT to use such language, but for them to play the babe-in-the-woods about potential consequences is dishonest at best. I would prefer if voters reacted with disgust rather than getting riled up, but oh well, my faith in humanity takes another blow.

[Xno Kappa]

An easier link can probably be made to Glenn Beck then Sarah Palin considering this guys incoherent drivel about currency not backed by gold and some kind of anarchist, anti-government conspiracy nonsense.

[Correction]

It would be pretty conveniant if the killer was well tied into glenn beck, the republicns, and the tea party, but in order for such a link to cause enough damage, you'd need very inteligent liberals who are also quite vicious. I do not think either of these things exist simultaniously within the Democratic Party.

They'd have to think two steps ahead since the response they face is 'stop using the deaths of the other 5 people as a platform for your partisan rhetoric.'

You're right, Dems who can strategize like that probably haven't had a wide audience for years.

[setzer]

Why, yes, I certainly do remember when Rachel Maddow, Steven Colbert, and Harry Reid called for US citizens to take up "second amendment remedies" against George W. Bush...oh wait.

please provided a link to any example where Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh or John Boehner have called for the use of violence against anyone. a real link, not some play on the words target, battleground, reload, battle, or revolution which are used all over the political landscape (although i doubt they will be anymore by the time the media conditions us with this story).

here's an example for you, a left wing blogger who is now piling on Sarah Palin but used some of the exact same words in his blog back in '08: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6...882/511/541568

for the lazy:

"Who to primary? Well, I'd argue that we can narrow the target list by looking at those Democrats who sold out the Constitution last week. I've bolded members of the Blue Dogs for added emphasis.

Ackerman, Gary (NY-05)
Altmire, Jason (PA-04)
Arcuri, Mike (NY-24)
Baca, Joe (CA-43)
Baird, Brian (WA-03)
Barrow, John (GA-12)
Bean, Melissa (IL-08)
Berkley, Shelley (NV-01)
Berman, Howard (CA-28)
Berry, Marion (AR-01)
Bishop, Sanford (GA-02)
Bishop, Timothy (NY-01)
Boren, Dan (OK-02)
Boswell, Leonard (IA-03)
Boucher, Rick (VA-09)
Boyd, Allen (FL-02)
Boyda, Nancy (KS-02)
Brown, Corrine (FL-03)
Butterfield, G.K. (NC-01)
Cardoza, Dennis (CA-18)
Carney, Chris (PA-10)
Castor, Kathy (FL-11)
Cazayoux, Don (LA-06)
Chandler, Ben (KY-06)
Childers, Travis (MS-01)
Cleaver, Emanuel (MO-05)
Clyburn, James (SC-06)
Cooper, Jim (TN-05)
Costa, Jim (CA-20)
Cramer, Bud (AL-05)
Crowley, Joe (NY-07)
Cuellar, Henry (TX-28)
Davis, Artur (AL-07)
Davis, Lincoln (TN-04)
Dicks, Norman (WA-06)


Donnelly, Joe (IN-02)
Edwards, Chet (TX-17)
Ellsworth, Brad (IN-08)
Emanuel, Rahm (IL-05)
Engel, Elliot (NY-17)
Etheridge, Bob (NC-02)
Giffords, Gabrielle (AZ-08)
Gillibrand, Kirsten (NY-20)
Gordon, Bart (TN-06)
Green, AL (TX-09)
Green, Gene (TX-29)
Gutierrez, Luis (IL-04)
Harman, Jane (CA-36)
Hastings, Alcee (FL-23)
Herseth Sandlin, S. (SD-AL)
Higgins, Brian (NY-27)
Hinojosa, Ruben (TX-15)
Holden, Tim (PA-17)
Hoyer, Steny (MD-05)
Kanjorski, Paul (PA-11)
Kildee, Dale (MI-05)
Kind, Ron (WI-03)
Klein, Ron (FL-22)
Lampson, Nick (TX-22)
Langevin, JIm (RI-02)
Lipinski, Dan (IL-03)
Lowey, Nita (NY-18)
Mahoney, Tim (FL-16)
Marshall, Jim (GA-08)
Matheson, Jim (UT-02)
McCarthy, Carolyn (NY-04)
McIntyre, Mike (NC-07)
McNerney, Jerry (CA-11)
Meeks, Gregory (NY-06)
Melancon, Charlie (LA-03)


Mitchell, Harry (AZ-05)
Moore, Dennis (KS-03)
Murphy, Patrick (PA-08)
Murtha, John (PA-12)
Ortiz, Solomon (TX-27)
Nancy Pelosi (CA-08)
Perlmutter, Ed (CO-07)
Peterson, Colin (MN-07)
Pomeroy, Earl (ND-AL)
Rahall, Nick (WV-03)
Reyes, Silvestre (TX-16)
Richardson, Laura (CA-37)
Rodriguez, Ciro (TX-23)
Ross, Mike (AR-04)
Ruppesberger, Dutch (MD-02)
Salazar, John (CO-03)
Schiff, Adam (CA-29)
Scott, David (GA-13)
Sestak, Joe (PA-07)
Sherman, Brad (CA-27)
Shuler, Heath (NC-11)
Sires, Albio (NJ-13)
Skelton, Ike (MO-04)
Smith, Adam (WA-09)
Snyder, Vic (AR-02)
Space, Zach (OH-18)
Spratt, John (SC-05)
Stupak, Bart (MI-01)
Tanner, John (TN-08)
Ellen Tauscher (CA-10)
Taylor, Gene (MS-04)
Thompson, Bennie (MS-02)
Udall, Mark (CO-02)
Wilson, Charles (OH-06)
Yarmuth, John (KY-03)

he bolded some for ADDED EMPHASIS. does that mean he's telling his readers to go out and kill these people? by your logic, yes. amirite?

take the blinders off, it works both ways. this guy was just fucking crazy. crazy people who want to hurt people are going to find a reason no matter what we do about it. this shit goes way deeper than Sarah Palin's choice of words.

[Overburn]

I mean to say that it's already justifiable to link the topics, it was linked previously when people were vandalizing offices during the elections. And if this type of politics becomes the norm, then actual acts of violence would be predicted to increase. I mean, you're asking for a physical link between a physical action and a mental/psychological phenomenon. Obviously it's complicated, and the dude is obviously crazy, but I think you're asking the impossible?

I'm not even looking for something like him saying "Thanks Sarah Palin, I'm going to go shoot my congresswoman" or "man, those political ads make a good point, I should shoot somebody," but to say Sarah Palin's campaign where she put crosshairs over Tucson or Jesse Kelley holding a gun rally is the reason that an idiot/crazy anti-government guy shot her seems at the least premature to me.

[Pirian]

ITT we compare random bloggers to conservative super-stars

[Talint]

I think there were radio show idiots who were spouting some violent garbage against bush, but the idea that politicians and PACs can get away with it and even use it to motivate voters is a relatively new and predominantly right-wing/libertarian phenomenon.

edit: To make it clear, I think politicians and PACs should have the RIGHT to use such language, but for them to play the babe-in-the-woods about potential consequences is dishonest at best. I would prefer if voters reacted with disgust rather than getting riled up, but oh well, my faith in humanity takes another blow.

If that actually did happen (which I submit is entirely possible) then those people should be held accountable as well.

The fact of the matter is, it's about the utmost disrespect of human life. Sharon Angle, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, et. al. may get the short term payoff for speaking and acting in such a way. But you better fucking bet I'm going to hold those dipshits responsible when something like this happens. You can't use violent rhetoric and then act all surprised when it actually fucking happens, because holy shit, there were other victims involved who had no political affiliation whatsoever. You want to encourage others to disrespect human life, fine, but don't be surprised when it comes time to face the music.

The smoke and mirrors of political affiliation and the inability to prove causality can't really cover up the truth here. It's not a left/right issue, it's a "those who respect human life"/"those who don't" issue.

Complete and total bullshit

...Really? "They used the SAME WORD! HOLY SHIT SAME THING YOU GUYZ!"

[setzer]

ITT we compare random bloggers to conservative super-stars

still waiting for that example.

[Caiyuo]

Is there any update beyond her being in surgery? The statements coming out from people seem to be confusingly referring to her in the past tense at times, but I haven't seen anything saying one way or the other since she's been in surgery. Here's NPR's updated page: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ooting?ps=cprs

Also, has anyone that might actually be guilty of violent rhetoric condemned it yet? Any supporters? I keep seeing admissions of tragedy and condemnations of the event itself, but is anyone saying "yes this is too much/we went too far"? I'd love to see something besides ass-covering for fear of being associated

[Olo401]

You two don't get it - they use political rhetoric that is DELIBERATELY meant to manipulate and blur the lines between politics and violence, and they do it over and over and over and let their corporate media surrogates echo it over and over and over until people like this guy go off. It DOESN'T MATTER if it wasn't their intention to incite violence. These politicians KNOW what they're doing, and they don't give a shit what happens.

And yes, this guy was crazy. But he was also obviously influenced by this shit given his Youtube manifestos.

[archibaldcrane]

please provided a link to any example where Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh or John Boehner have called for the use of violence against anyone. a real link, not some play on the words target, battleground, reload, battle, or revolution which are used all over the political landscape (although i doubt they will be anymore by the time the media conditions us with this story).

here's an example for you, a left wing blogger who is now piling on Sarah Palin but used some of the exact same words in his blog back in '08:

so one liberal blogger noone has heard of used the word 'target' once 3 years ago and no other pseudo violent imagery and you're playing the "both sides" game?

Fuck you.

That being said he seems more like a crazy anarcho-conspiracy theorist than a normal tea partier.

[Tristam]

Bolding names in conjunction with the word "target" is clearly not the same thing as consistently using violent language, crosshair images, and advertising the use of guns (edit: in a different context). Don't be silly.

edit: To clarify, when a football commentator draws a circle around a quarterback's intended reciever and refers to him as a "target." Quite obviously he doesn't mean that the quarterback intends to kill the reciever. Context and common sense goes a long way here.

[Xno Kappa]

Guyz! They meant reload and fire with accuracy at these specific targets as a metaphor guyz, come on. I doubt anyone sane would take this literally. Nope.

[Rhinox]

BOLDED IS BETTER

BEARS

[setzer]

Fuck you.

aww, how cute.

still waiting on that example tough guy.

[Pirian]

aww, how cute.

still waiting on that example tough guy.

But if we were to dignify you with a response then that would mean you have an actual argument, which you do not. How do you not get this?

[aduidarnenye]

I was thinking that if this congresswoman survives this and is still capable of being a politician she'll never lose an election ever.