FFXIII-2

[Gokulo]

I thought people stopped listening to Famitsu ages ago.

[Nevex]

Famitsu gave the game a 40/40 (moneyhatted, clearly) and it still sold like shit. You're hoping against hope.

Those who hated FFXIII are not taking Famitsu into consideration.

Either way let's take a look at the top 10 sold games during the last week in Japan (numbers in the brackets = sales since launch):

1. [PS3] Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Square Enix, 12/15/11) – 524,217
2. [3DS] Monster Hunter Tri G (Capcom, 12/10/11) – 208,427 (730,386)
3. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo, 12/01/11) – 182,418 (789,871)
4. [3DS] Inazuma Eleven GO Shine / Dark (Level-5, 12/15/11) – 135,259
5. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo, 11/3/11) – 112,533 (837,143)
6. [Wii] Kirby’s Return to Dreamland (Nintendo. 10/27/11) – 71,028 (398,516)
7. [PSV] Hot Shots Golf: World Invitational (Sony, 12/17/11) – 61,412
8. [PSV] Uncharted: Golden Abyss (Sony, 12/17/11) – 48,224
9. [Wii] Just Dance Wii (Ubisoft, 10/13/11) – 48,224 (323,293)
10. [Wii] PokePark 2: Beyond the World (Nintendo, 11/12/11) – 43,829 (164,018 )
11. [Wii] Wii Party (Nintendo, 7/8/10) – 42,632 (2,129,236)
12. [NDS] Magician’s Quest: The Merchant’s Store of Sorcery (Konami, 12/10/11) – 35,068 (81,110)
13. [Wii] Mario & Sonic at the London 2012 Olympic Games (Nintendo, 12/8/11) – 33,686 (64,573)
14. [PS3] New Kamaitachi no Yoru: The 11th Suspect (Chunsoft, 12/17/11) – 33,686
15. [PS3] BlazBlue: Continuum Shift Extend (Arc System Works, 12/17/11) – 32,992
16. [Wii] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo, 11/11/10) – 30,804 (734,046)
17. [Wii] Taiko Drum Master Wii Ultimate Version (Namco Bandai, 11/23/11) – 30,046 (100,284)
18. [PSV] Dynasty Warriors Next (Tecmo Koei, 12/17/11) – 29,181
19. [PSV] Lord of Apocalypse (Square Enix, 12/17/11) – 28,742
20. [NDS] One Piece: Gigant Battle! 2 New World (Namco Bandai, 11/17/11) – 28,406 (207,458 )

(source)

FFXIII-2 is still utterly dominating the chart, it's just that PS3 games in general are just selling less this year probably because of 3DS and PSV (notice it's the ONLY PS3 game in the top 10).

[Lucavi]

Famitsu gave the game a 40/40 (moneyhatted, clearly) and it still sold like shit. You're hoping against hope.

Famitsu gives everything made in Japan a 40/40. Can we stop throwing the name around like it means anything anymore?

[Skai]

Skyrim got 40.

[Correction]

Famitsu gives everything made in Japan a 40/40.

Haha.
No.

[Insanecyclone]

Azrael will cost $1 (80 Microsoft Points) when it is released.

[Hyan]

In relation to XIII, Famitsu's score doesn't mean shit. The original was rated high and people didn't like it, so that kind of invalidated the magazine's scores as far as anything related to the IP is concerned.

It's just too obvious this time for JP's to believe it.

Not too surprised the game is considered quite easy. More open structure makes it harder to keep the difficulty in check. That said hard mode would be neat from now on.

[Correction]

Not too surprised the game is considered quite easy. More open structure makes it harder to keep the difficulty in check. That said hard mode would be neat from now on.

I would love a hard difficulty on FF games, but it seems SE abandoned real, non-optional difficulty beginning with the PSX games.

[Crab_Cake]

A bit off topic but I decided to look for FF music on itunes.

And I noticed all of them are gone (all SE music including The Last Remnant).

Anyone know what could have happened?

@Crab_Cake

Spoilered just in case but pretty much really vague talk about the story:

Spoiler: show

Actually I pretty much forgot about the TBC completely. That's a good sign for a continuation with some context in mind. XIII was interesting, but I love the story a lot more with the time travel included. This is also making me love the FNC a lot more too, I feel smart by looking at the FNC to some answers as to what the fuck was going on in the story and where the story might go from there. I'm even more interested in getting my hands on the game so I can read the primers and talk to npcs and squeeze some more info out of the game lol.

Some more discussion regarding the ending:

Spoiler: show

I noticed they said Vanille and Fang a few times during the ending. So they ended up moving them away from the pillar somehow but are they both still crystallized?

I hope in FFXIII-3 all the original cast (minus Lightning but plus Noel of course) team up and go on a new mission to save Lightning and somehow revive Serah.

Then once Lightning and Serah are back, they fight the villain.

Considering they saved Vanille + Fang , it'd be a tease not to include them in the sequel or have the original group united on some new mission for some reason.

Hmm also do you know if Episode i is still in continuity or did they retcon it (or at least some parts)?

The major difference I noticed is that in FFXIII-2, it seems like Lightning was dragged to Valhalla just right after the ending of FFXIII, while in Episode i it seemed like she had a long time to think about things before getting dragged (in fact both Vanille + Fang were able to talk for a while regarding the group).

Also after reading that translation, I'm disappointed that it was Etro who changed everyone to normal from crystal and not Vanille (when she said "Wake up") >.>.

Anyway one thing I'm a bit disappointed about is the fact they removed the initial paradigm animations. They could have just made it an option like FFX-2.

I don't know about others but when I first used the paradigm system, the animations made things epic (the music and a close up of Vanille each time really contributes too). Now for most cases, I'd turn them off but I wouldn't mind being able to turn them on for nostalgia or so (hey I know I can just play FFXIII again but still).

What happened to options SE (remember FF7 when you could actually remap the controls)? I am disappoint.

Edit - What I'd like for them to do in general is provide a variety of options like The Last Remnant (well at least TLR PC version; I'm not sure if 360 TLR had the same options). TLR had every option you could think of (you could turn off voices, turn map rotation on/off, change music volume, etc). In most cases I wouldn't change a thing but it's a good habit for developers to do with games IMO. (I wouldn't mind the ability to turn on static maps and turn on/off paradigm animations in FFXIII.)

[Spira]

eh.. everyone who is dissing Famitsu's rating is obviously already biased against FFXIII.

XIII wasn't my favorite FF but I definitely think it did very well as a GAME in general, not as an FF. and for that I believe it is well deserving of its 39/40. It was definitely an enjoyable experience.
If i had to rate it as a Final Fantasy, based on my knowledge and expectations of what an FF would be, then it'd fare pretty poorly.

I think it's quite important to make that distinction if you want to review the game on a level that views all games from all genres equally.

XIII-2 on the other hand, I've yet to play, but from what I can tell, they took the weaker points of XIII and made it a more interactive and enjoyable experience for all. It's the little things, like the crystarium line where you dont have to keep holding down the button to fill the power lines, or when theres more depth to the battle system because of blood damage.

Things like linearity and being open-ended are very subjective and in some ways cannot be worked into the overall 'rating' of the game. XIII was meant to be linear - i assure you, if it was not, the story flow would have sucked very badly - just like how chapter 11's progression was all over the place. This isn't to say how good a game is isn't subjective, its just something that a general consensus can be more easily made on.

Finally, Famitsu's perfect score list is pretty exclusive. Money can't buy it. Only 18 games have had perfect scores in the last 20 years. And 30 have gotten 39/40 in that same amount of time. And if you've played through all the games in that list, you'll know for a fact that all of them are deserving of recognition.. so for what its worth, the Famitsu list is highly indicative of a quality game.

XIII-2 is only the second FF game to make that list. I think it only goes to show how often people prejudge when its already 'obvious' to people here that the game isn't worth the 40/40 just from watching and not actually playing it. No matter how convincing you think you may be, you can't properly review a game without playing it, just like how you can't review food without tasting it.

[miokomioko]

I haven't seen so much discussion over an ending for a while... I'm hoping that's a good thing and not a WAT thing.

[Hyan]

XIII-2 is only the second FF game to make that list. I think it only goes to show how often people prejudge when its already 'obvious' to people here that the game isn't worth the 40/40 just from watching and not actually playing it.

I found an earlier quote hilarious, something like "actually when you've played the game and seen some of the earlier story so you have some context the ending makes a lot more sense." >_>

[Crab_Cake]

IMO FFXIII's problem wasn't it being linear but the gameplay being kind of boring and repetitive for most of the game. If the gameplay was much funner, most wouldn't mind it being linear (most JRPGs are linear anyway. Main difference between FFXIII and others is lack of towns and lack of backtracking).

Problems are being limited to two party members and limited to 3 paradigm roles for most of the game with little customization options. Plus I really disliked the fact that regular enemies are almost as hard (to take down) as bosses at times. They should have made regular enemies easier but bosses harder IMO.

My gameplay/customization ideas:

Spoiler: show

1. They should copy FFV or FF Tactics and allow you to mix and match a few abilities (I pick Sentinel and have two extra ability slots that I can equip from other roles. For example I could add the "Attack" and "Launch" abilities from Commander to Sentinel). Though there could be some sort of penalty for doing that (say attack only deals 70% damage or so) to still encourage paradigm shifting.

2. Add gambits or something similar to FFXIII. In fact it doesn't have to be gambits but a way to simply turn on/off abilities for allies to use or not use.

3. Be able to spend CP to upgrade abilities. Maybe spend CP to upgrade Mediguard to heal more HP, etc. Each character would have a certain amount of "Ability points" which only allows you to equip a few upgrades to abilities at a time.

4. Allow all characters to learn all abilities (besides full ATB skills of course) so you can just play your favorites.

5. Add customization options for Eidolons like FFX with Aeons. Some ideas are increasing the time Eidolons stay (currently it's always 50 seconds regardless of their HP), increasing Gestalt Mode duration (it's capped at 30 currently), adding new abilities, etc. Hecatoncheir should get Curaga too.

6. Make gaining TP faster. Fast enough to be able to use Eidolons multiple times per battle. One idea I have is that there are two modes you can pick for the stagger gauge (you can switch any time during battle). One mode is the default mode (you stagger enemy, they gain 100% to the stagger gauge and can be launched). The second mode is that whenever you fill the stagger gauge, it resets back to 100% but your TP is restored (based on the % that was needed to stagger the enemy).

7. Add the ability to change leaders in battle.

8. Add something similar to blood damage from FFXIII-2. Every time the party leader (but no other party member) is K.O.ed, 10% of max HP is reduced for a certain period of time. This would balance out the ability to swap party leaders and just keep on reviving.

Of course they'd need to make the game harder in general due to these changes (because most of them makes the game easier).

A bit long but those changes would make the gameplay much better.

Also I definitely think they could have dealt with the linear issue and/or no towns issue easily (even taking into account the story).

Spoiler: show

One idea is that the party obtains an ability to disguise themselves in towns (they're disguised but they'd still look normal to the player) and/or they could use save stations to "teleport" (or maybe it's a VR simulation) to a town. They could throw in one town with quests, mini games, Monster Arena like FFX, etc. Actually they could skip towns altogether if they're lazy and just let you access mini games plus some sort of Monster Arena system via save station.

There you go. A way around the no towns/mini games issue while still keeping the story the same.

Also they should throw in an option to change from rotating to static maps and an "option" (not removal) to turn off paradigm animations. (Also while some found the camera to be weird in FFXIII due to the fact the character isn't always in the center, I kind of liked that actually.)

Finally throw in new game+ (for those who'd like to just roll threw the game with overpowered characters and enjoy the story) and call it a day.

If SE ever does an updated FFXIII rerelease (PC port plz), do it SE (hopefully they'll figure it out on their own). Also they need to put Vanille on the cover.

[Appie]

video

Azrael will cost $1 (80 Microsoft Points) when it is released.

"Here have a skin for the shitty compressed Bink video on the 360".

If i had to rate it as a Final Fantasy, based on my knowledge and expectations of what an FF would be, then it'd fare pretty poorly.

If I had to base it on my expectations of previous FF's I would have expected a boring ass battle system, like all the FF's before it. Inb4 people who liked previous battle systems and hated the one in 13, I didn't. Different folks, different tastes.

As for the whole Famitsu thing, I think they pretty much cornered themselves, because as pointed out, they did fix alot of the issues people had with the original game in XIII-2, I'm only about 10 hours in and can already see that clearly, so they "had" to rate it higher than the (maybe too high?) score for XIII.

On a little sidenote: about wiping to normal mobs and not bosses (which I didn't mind at all in XIII), I have yet to wipe to a normal mob (not counting the Behemoths in a little mini game in which I have to avoid them), but I am stuck now on a boss in Episode 3 for which I simply seem underleveled, not sure yet, maybe I can fix it with some paradigms, either way, seems they fixed that issue too?

[Spira]

i liked the XIII battle system heaps.. but my expectations of the game still varied considering the fact that its a Final Fantasy. I mean.. different people have different ideas of what counts as an FF game.. like how 13 ditches the classic battle fanfare entirely.. or that all battles are now rated. Stuff that is fine by itself, but if 'compared' to other FFs, break or go against tradition.

I know a lot of people, myself included in some aspects, that were upset with XIII because it didn't turn out to be "as Final Fantasy" as they had expected - and that for some that happens to be the biggest fault that they can find out of the game (no town exploring can also be counted as a factor that falls under this condition). And in most cases such expectations are too high to manage.

This is probably one reason why players who are like the biggest fanboys for 1 FF may turn out to be the biggest haters for other FFs, even when the masses (or like other people who aren't hardcore fanboys) have no problems enjoying the game. They don't want a new FF game, they want another FF7 (for example )

Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing XIII-2 in English. This is the first FF i'm not playing the JP version for since FF8 in 1999, and only because I've no time with work on my hands.. so it'll definitely be a different experience for me... somehow I've never ever managed to NOT spoil myself to the ending or whatnot - but that has never really stopped me from enjoying the game...

Only 1 month more...

[Lonely]

The real issue is that the FF fanbase is complete shit and Square Enix has attained a ENORMOUS amount of hatred over the years ever since the merge with Enix from so called fans. XII received a ton of hate to but its never got as much wide spread as the hate for XIII did.

When you see a discussion on XIII you will hardly see things about what it did do great, the only thing people will say is that it didn't have X or it isn't as good as there personal favorite FF, or the beloved "FF died after X(not 10) title". The game was just trolled into oblivion really.

[Lucavi]

I'm trying to figure out what XIII has done better than not just any other FF title, but any other RPG. I suppose I'd have an easier time if I only compared it to other FFs, but I cannot make a purchase on a game based only on its own series. I have to compare it to others in its genre, otherwise I'd end up with a lot of shitty purchases from some average series. That being said, I did purchase XIII, and I did play it religiously - up until I got bored at gran pulse -, but I still can't think of many things that XIII did that was amazingly better than any other RPG ever. The graphics, while nice, are nothing special to a PC player like myself, so I couldn't trump them up as something amazing. Nothing ever released on a console will be truly amazing unless you're touting "art style" over graphical and processing power, and even then, the same "art style" could be applied on a PC, yet with even more powerful graphical and processing bluster. The sound is good, but the songs themselves are eclipsed by older songs of the franchise, especially of those older songs were given a new coat of paint. The plot... well, its FF, to say the least. The characters were interesting, but RPG characters tend to be interesting. The battle style was nice, but I've played better, although it comes down to personal preference, of course.

I disagree, Lonely. You'll see things about what XIII did great. I mean, just ask Spira. Spira could probably reach into his trunk and unravel a scroll the size of texas and keep you here all day singing the game's praises. People troll, obviously, but we'll find out how many people were actually trolling or were actually serious about their opinion of XIII when XIII-2 hits the states and we see some sales figures. I know a lot of people like myself that bought XIII, enjoyed parts of it, but have simply become bored of the SE brand of packaging a game and will not purchase XIII-2 at launch.

SE will make their money off of it; no worries. I'd say that's the only real important part about the release; certainly not trying to sway everyone to some line of thinking regarding the game having so many things done right about it. That's for the fanboys and trolls to battle over, I suppose.

[Nevex]

FFXIII did a lot of things far better than any other FF ever did.
I'm not going to write a poem about it but I'm going to mention something that is often overlooked: the chemistry among the playable cast.

Most FFs (as well as nearly every RPG out there) follow this formula about recruiting new party members:
"Hi stranger who I have never seen before, thanks for helping me out with this dungeon/boss battle/minigame/fetch quest, now instead of going back to my usual life I'm going to follow you in your little adventure and risk my life for you even though we have just met".
This is a complete and utter crap plot device which has zero realistic value.

Now look at how FFXIII handled things.
The party members were involved in an incident for different reasons, they were all extremely frustrated and confused about it (even Vanille, even though she did her best to hide it) and acted exactly like normal people would in that situation: they only team up because they have to, but there's a lot of distrust and hostility between each other for a large part of the game.

Eventually, they get closer each other, but not before circumstances show that they can trust each other: Lightning deciding not to abandon Hope because she feels guilty, Sazh deciding not to kill Vanille because he realizes she's just a girl and she didn't certainly want Dahj to end up a l'Cie, Hope forgiving Snow after he saved his life, etc.
That's a whole load of character development right there, which doesn't get enough credit.

The only other FF that has an equally coherent party is FFVIII and that's only because 4 out of 6 of them attend the same school, Rinoa is the Garden's client and Irvine was needed for a mission. Heck, Irvine even attempts to ditch the party at some point before Rinoa forces him to go back.
Don't give me the orphanage crap, that was a coincidence and barely affected the plot as a whole.

Anyway, back to FFXIII, I loved how they handled the relationship between the party members, and how they realistically grew close each other as timee passed.
You can even see that if you listen to the battle quotes. I mean Lightning at the start of the game says things like "Just don't stand in my way" to her party members and then in chapter 5 she says "Hope!" whenever his HP gets red. This is a pretty nice touch that I've never seen in other games.

In the end I see the cast of FFXIII as a whole as the best in the series for this reason alone and I'll be sad if the reason FFXIII-2 doesn't feature them as much because pissed off fans didn't want them back. As said above, most of the time the real problem with the series is the fans themselves.

[Tyrath]

I prefer the party members scattered throughout the game formula far better than having everyone involved in the story sequence from the beginning. In terms of story, FFXIII might've handled it better. In terms of gameplay and enjoyment, it did not.

Edit: My point was. It all comes down to personal preference yet everyone still keeps arguing about what did what better @_@

[Nevex]

I prefer the party members scattered throughout the game formula far better than having everyone involved in the story sequence from the beginning. In terms of story, FFXIII might've handled it better. In terms of gameplay and enjoyment, it did not.

Edit: My point was. It all comes down to personal preference yet everyone still keeps arguing about what did what better @_@

Well of course this is personal preference but FFXIII isn't the first one to do it.
FFX did exactly the same (all the party members but one available very early in the game, with the last one joining at around 1/3rd in the plot) and FFXII had the whole party available within the first few hours.

I'm fine with either system, provided that there are good reasons behind it. I.e. don't pull an Amarant on me, who had zero reasons to join the party. Why didn't they give me Beatrix instead? I mean, isn't she supposed to protect Garnet? She was a far better character yet she didn't get to join as a permanent party member over someone who added nothing to the plot.
I hope I'm not the only one who got really pissed about that.

I have to agree with Lonely. It seems that the fans are way more vocal now compared to ten or so years ago.
They get all up in arms when they hear Crazy Chocobo and act like a theme that they have listened for hundreds of times between its 30 or so variations has been ruined forever, they automatically associate the lack of traditional towns to a crap game, they get pissed when summons don't instant-KO any enemy in the game, but they're totally fine with random party members who have no plot value, utterly broken and abusable battle systems that kill any challenge and cringe-worthy mis-translations that seem to be taken straight from Google translate.

Both old and new FFs have their flaws, but the fanbase seems to be way more forgiving with the former category because they they were a lot less nitpicky when they played them. I doubt that 12-15 year old kids were this hypercritical back then, I certainly wasn't.