FFXIII-2

[Hyan]

Shitguchi's stubborness to let the franchise evolve certainly didn't help them. Sometimes I wish he was around longer so he would get shat on like Tanaka, the man certainly deserves it.

Cool opinion though.

[Alkar]

I see no problem with SE right now. Not counting XIV I've enjoyed all games just as much as past titles. I've played the XIII-2 demo like 8 times already and I can't wait for the full thing.
The only big issue I have with them is their skeleton crew leading FFXI, they're pretty much ruining the game for me.

[Nevex]

The only difference between Squaresoft and Square-Enix is that the latter has a lot more competition now.
Back then games like FFVI and FFVII had very few noteworthy rivals, nowdays there are dozens of good JRPGs and WPRGs to choose from. Unless you have way too much money and/or time to spend you might not be able to play all of them, therefore you might be inclined to favor a RPG without "Final Fantasy" in its name.
You also need to keep in mind that most RPGs aren't trying to clone each other anymore, so you might not like the direction FF has taken compared to others.

You'll be amazed at the number of people who can't give you a more valid reason than "FFVII was my first and only good RPG I have played when it was most popular" at why it's their favorite FF.
They will occasionally attempt to argue saying that it has the best story and gameplay in history, but educated and rational arguments can easily make these statements invalid.

Conversely, you'll be hard pressed to find a more valid reason than "FFXIII sucks because X RPG does Y better" from those who didn't like FFXIII. In fact, the entire criticism this game gets is all about this very statement, just replace "X" and "Y" with whatever you're going to criticize.

You can bet that even if FFXV ends up being a masterpiece, it will still get a ton of criticism because it will have to compete with all the previous FFs as well as all the major RPGs that have been released in the past and will be released in the next years.

[Elcura]

Back then games like FFVI and FFVII had very few noteworthy rivals

I dunno about this, I played plenty of amazing RPGs that I thought were better than VI and VII both in terms of story and/or game play. The only time I thought the above is when I only played FF games.

[Nevex]

Numerically speaking, my point still stands.
What other RPGs were you comparing FFVII with 14 years ago? Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, Pokemon Blue/Red, Earthbound and I can't honestly think of anything else.

What RPGs are you going to compare FFXIII with instead? All the previous FFs, Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Fallout, Elder Scrolls, Pokemon, Chrono Trigger/Cross, Parasite Eve, Xenogears, Persona, Last Remnant, Tales of, Kingdom Hearts and the list goes on. All of them are excellent franchises in their own right and obviously have things that FFXIII doesn't have, but that doesn't mean that the other way around isn't true as well.

The competition in the RPG area is a lot more fierce now and it's understandable that FF can't satisfy all tastes at once.
I think the problem with those who are "disappointed" with FF lately is that they can't accept that the once dominant RPG franchise is moving towards a niche one because it has no to share the throne with other games.
Because if you stop looking at the other RPGs for a second, you'll realize that new FFs aren't that different from older ones, they're just more evolved from a gameplay point of view.

[Hyan]

You're ignoring a lot of details if you limit yourself to looking at RPGs.

Action games have advanced significantly in the last decade, and that is the main contributing factor for increased competition. Thinking of the FF franchise as some sort of isolated "JRPG" island is foolish, because in the end it's an action game with a fantasy plot. Genres have come closer together- every game seems to have some sort of character progression/perk system and 'classes' nowadays. Is FF closer to Elder Scrolls or Metal Gear Solid? The answer is easy. Once upon a time it tried to accomplish the job of both, nowadays games are narrower in scope and specialize in what they do best.

[Elcura]

Numerically speaking, my point still stands.
What other RPGs were you comparing FFVII with 14 years ago? Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, Pokemon Blue/Red, Earthbound and I can't honestly think of anything else.

Add Tales of games, Star Ocean, Suikoden, Grandia, Threads of Fate, Dragon Quest, Vagrant Story, Valkyrie Profile, Wild Arms, Breath of Fire, Legend of Mana, Legend of the Dragoon and Super Mario RPG as well. And those are just the good ones. I've played many, many more than that.

[Nevex]

You're ignoring a lot of details if you limit yourself to looking at RPGs.

Action games have advanced significantly in the last decade, and that is the main contributing factor for increased competition. Thinking of the FF franchise as some sort of isolated "JRPG" island is foolish, because in the end it's an action game with a fantasy plot. Genres have come closer together- every game seems to have some sort of character progression/perk system and 'classes' nowadays. Is FF closer to Elder Scrolls or Metal Gear Solid? The answer is easy. Once upon a time it tried to accomplish the job of both, nowadays games are narrower in scope and specialize in what they do best.

Oh I'm very aware of that. Even games like Ratchet and Clank and The Binding of Isaac make large use of once RPG-only elements such as attack/defense stats, shops, experience points-based progression, customizable armor/equip, weapon upgrade and even status effects.

Right now character progression and class systems seem to be a must for every game out there. It will be interesting to see how things will change in the next years once people start growing tired of them and how this will affect FF.

[Bregor]

It's why SE should never remake FFVII. It would suck if they simply redid it the way it is

It doesn't matter if something is outdated if it is enjoyable to play.

^

S-E has been in the business of remaking I-VI, sometimes multiple times, to varying degrees of similarity to the originals. Almost every time they deviate from something that worked in the original, I end up not liking it. There's nothing wrong with just a graphical and UI update, fixing bugs, and maybe adding additional content (if it works within the plot.)

I strongly disagree with the "fun" argument, though. There hasn't been an FF games that I didn't think was fun to play multiple times. True, I used to burn through FFIV and FFVI on my old SNES and immediately restart a new game. But I was also in middle school, I didn't have shit to do. Now that I'm a real life adult, I simply don't have time to grind through games multiple times. I played XIII through three times, the first time was pretty much just a straight through play for the plot, the second was to explore (lol linear) and try out different battle strategies and upgrades, and the most recent time was to get Treasure Hunter and platinum. All three times, it was fun to play. Yes, the gameplay and style are completely different. But we're not going back to sprites and world map random encounters. Deal with it.

[Correction]

You are stating your opinion and I don't care as I have my own which completely invalidates yours.

Why did you even reply to me. You have nothing more to say. Just because people like shitty games doesn't mean they aren't shitty.

Jesus christ shut the fuck up how is this even what you want to post in the XIII-2 thread.

[JeanClaudVanDamme]

Numerically speaking, my point still stands.
What other RPGs were you comparing FFVII with 14 years ago? Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Chrono Trigger, Pokemon Blue/Red, Earthbound and I can't honestly think of anything else.

Are you purposely being dense?

FF7 came from arguably the best RPG generation ever. At the very least, bare minimum, the PS1 RPG generation is only ever so slightly behind SNES library.

What was FF7 being compared to back then?

Star Ocean 2, Grandia, Suikoden1 and 2, Wild Arms 1 and 2, Alundra, Xenogears, Legend of Dragoon, Valkyrie Profile, Shin Megami Tensei, Breath of Fire 3, Vagrant Story, Chrono Cross, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Destiny, Saga Frontier (fuck the haters), Legend of Mana, Legend of Legaia, Lunar SSS and Eternal Blue, Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 (again, fucking awesome games, fuck the haters), COUNTLESS other lesser, but just as enjoyable RPGs.

What the fuck are you babbling about? If you are insinuating that somehow FF7 came from a weak generation of JRPG, you are absolutely wrong and insane.

And why are you conveniently comparing to FF13 to old as fuck games like Xenogears and Parasite Eve and Chrono Trigger? FF7 came out in 1997. FF13 in 2011. Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Xenogears and Persona all came from the late 90s and early 2000s. How is it appropriate that you listing games form the 90s and early 2000s as potential competition for FF13, a game that came out just last year and not a game from 1997. You know, a game that actually came out in the late 90s.

Stop spewing opinionated bullshit. The only generation of RPGs capable of even being compared to PS1's is SNES'.

FF7 for its time shits on FF13 for its time. As individual games, FF7 shits on FF13 even more.

[Elcura]

Legend of Legaia

Oh shit, totally forgot about this game. But it was also fucking awesome.

[ronin sparthos]

TORNADO FLAME.

Only thing I recall about Legend of Legaia that was terrible was the run speed on the world map and how bad grinding for money was. You'd get enough cash to equip your characters only to be broke and at the next town with all new upgrades to get.

[Kuya]

Are you purposely being dense?

FF7 came from arguably the best RPG generation ever. At the very least, bare minimum, the PS1 RPG generation is only ever so slightly behind SNES library.

What was FF7 being compared to back then?

Star Ocean 2, Grandia, Suikoden1 and 2, Wild Arms 1 and 2, Alundra, Xenogears, Legend of Dragoon, Valkyrie Profile, Shin Megami Tensei, Breath of Fire 3, Vagrant Story, Chrono Cross, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Destiny, Saga Frontier (fuck the haters), Legend of Mana, Legend of Legaia, Lunar SSS and Eternal Blue, Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 (again, fucking awesome games, fuck the haters), COUNTLESS other lesser, but just as enjoyable RPGs.

What the fuck are you babbling about? If you are insinuating that somehow FF7 came from a weak generation of JRPG, you are absolutely wrong and insane.

And why are you conveniently comparing to FF13 to old as fuck games like Xenogears and Parasite Eve and Chrono Trigger? FF7 came out in 1997. FF13 in 2011. Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Xenogears and Persona all came from the late 90s and early 2000s. How is it appropriate that you listing games form the 90s and early 2000s as potential competition for FF13, a game that came out just last year and not a game from 1997. You know, a game that actually came out in the late 90s.

Stop spewing opinionated bullshit. The only generation of RPGs capable of even being compared to PS1's is SNES'.

FF7 for its time shits on FF13 for its time. As individual games, FF7 shits on FF13 even more.

Omg, i'm totally gonna watch JVD now after this post.

[Trigun]

I played the demo a few nights ago.

I love the look of the game it's definitely 1 step up from the last. I'm intrigued by the characters/story, love the way the world and everything looked.

But the gd mf'ing camera pissed me off and then they hit me with the quick time events (quick time events to boost damage is fine but not with cs shit).

I was dumb enough to hit the buttons during the "end of the demo" video, but I'm not dumb enough to waste my time/money with this.

[Nevex]

Are you purposely being dense?

FF7 came from arguably the best RPG generation ever. At the very least, bare minimum, the PS1 RPG generation is only ever so slightly behind SNES library.

What was FF7 being compared to back then?

Star Ocean 2, Grandia, Suikoden1 and 2, Wild Arms 1 and 2, Alundra, Xenogears, Legend of Dragoon, Valkyrie Profile, Shin Megami Tensei, Breath of Fire 3, Vagrant Story, Chrono Cross, Tales of Eternia, Tales of Destiny, Saga Frontier (fuck the haters), Legend of Mana, Legend of Legaia, Lunar SSS and Eternal Blue, Mega Man Legends 1 and 2 (again, fucking awesome games, fuck the haters), COUNTLESS other lesser, but just as enjoyable RPGs.

What the fuck are you babbling about? If you are insinuating that somehow FF7 came from a weak generation of JRPG, you are absolutely wrong and insane.

And why are you conveniently comparing to FF13 to old as fuck games like Xenogears and Parasite Eve and Chrono Trigger? FF7 came out in 1997. FF13 in 2011. Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Xenogears and Persona all came from the late 90s and early 2000s. How is it appropriate that you listing games form the 90s and early 2000s as potential competition for FF13, a game that came out just last year and not a game from 1997. You know, a game that actually came out in the late 90s.

Stop spewing opinionated bullshit. The only generation of RPGs capable of even being compared to PS1's is SNES'.

FF7 for its time shits on FF13 for its time. As individual games, FF7 shits on FF13 even more.

I'm sorry, most of the games you mentioned aren't strong competition at all. They're all good in their own right, but they're more of niche games that sold pretty poorly simply because the majority of players didn't even care about them.

The difference between a successful and unsuccessful game is merely about how popular that game is years after the release.
FFXIII is by far and large the most popular and discussed console JRPG of the current generaton and that alone is enough to compare it with both old classics and new RPGs.
The reason I compared FFXIII to games like CT and PE is because, unlike most of the others you mentioned, they still have a strong presence even today.
How often do you hear people talking about Alundra or Secret of Mana nowdays? Yeah, not often at all. In fact, this is the first time I even see them being mentioned in the last 5 years or so.

And you're contraddicting yourself. First you say that FFVII didn't have to face strong competition, then you say that for its time it shits all over FFXIII (translation: "FFVII outperformed its compeition better than FFXIII did", which is exactly my point).

I still fail to see how FFVII is objectively better than FFXIII, by the way. Take the nostalgia and the comparisons with other RPGs away and you'll see how poorly it compares not only with FFXIII, but with every single FF that came after it.

[Elcura]

I'm sorry, most of the games you mentioned aren't strong competition at all.

Are you high? How many of those games have you actually played? I'm actually glad you switched to a sales total stance because shit, if you think VI and VII were the best RPGs of those times you're crazy. But you can't deny they sold a lot. Actually you can't deny VII sold a lot. Before that FF sales were pretty much what they were now. The difference is people became more aware of RPGs when VII was released but the trend has died down.

Also, just because you ain't listening doesn't mean people aren't talking. I really hope you were just asking about Alundra or SoM too, because most of those games are talked about regularly and passionately by people who love them.

[Mugmug]

I fail to see how sales determines the quality of a game.

By that logic Smash Mouths "All Star" (or whatever its called from Shrek) is clearly one of the best songs from the 90s! It's the most well constructed, well written piece of music from that era. To this day it is still talked about and played on a regular basis! It sold better than a lot of alternative/grunge/rock/hiphop! Clearly pop songs are far superior to those genres as well! You can say the same about a lot of terrible movies which do well. Adam Sandler is prob one of the best comedians ever!

I still fail to see how FFVII is objectively better than FFXIII, by the way. Take the nostalgia and the comparisons with other RPGs away and you'll see how poorly it compares not only with FFXIII, but with every single FF that came after it.

I'm not a huge fan of VII but I do believe it was a better game. IMO. It had more memorable characters (Fang, Lightning and Sazh were the only characters worth mentioning from XIII), a better plot, more character development, more gameplay variety (mini games, exploration, underwater travel, airship travel), etc. I can go on and on about having a more fleshed out world (towns, npcs, shops), and more character customization options but I won't bother.

Simply put FFVII felt more like an actual role playing game, and not an interactive movie. That said, FFXIII wasn't a bad game by any means. I beat it, and completed everything it had to offer. The combat system was fantastic and Lightning might be my favorite main character to date!

I'm not expecting much from the story department from XIII-2, but I'm hoping the gameplay picks up.

[supercoco]

back to ffxiii-2 . . . .

Do ppl that have played ff13 get any bonus in this game ?

[meeeeeep]

back to ffxiii-2 . . . .

Do ppl that have played ff12 get any bonus in this game ?

Do you mean people that played XIII? It's been said that if you have a XIII save on your hard drive then you'll get a bonus theme or some shit, but it doesn't affect the game at all from what I've read.
Can't confirm because obviously the game isn't out yet.