FFXIII-2

[vadre]

I'd agree Lightning's actually one of my favourite character designs in the series, even with her abundance of belts/zips.

[The Stig]

For lightning the only thing I'd want do to her is:

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/videox...jpg?1195624124

Get rid of that cape. Seems a bit redundant, it's not a full cape and it seems more like a misplaced scarf at times lol. Actually I don't recall seeing a cape in 13-2, so I think it should be ok

[Tomino]

If you're comparign character designs between games I don't see why you should use a Dissidia design as representative for FFVI.
"Dissidia Kefka" has less to do with FF6 than it has with FF8 or later entries, given its author.

OT, but it's not just nostalgia. I missed FF games that had adults, mature characters in them, because since FF7 there has been an infestation of teenagers, which is also quite commong in every other form of entertainment (side note : didnt know they made "Teen Iron Man" cartoons).

[Tyrath]

If you're comparign character designs between games I don't see why you should use a Dissidia design as representative for FFVI.
"Dissidia Kefka" has less to do with FF6 than it has with FF8 or later entries, given its author.

It was an example that character design doesn't mean the ingame sprite. I couldn't find a good pic of the original kefka design to use at the time. But here you are

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...6_Kefkaart.png

[Alkar]

If you're comparign character designs between games I don't see why you should use a Dissidia design as representative for FFVI.
"Dissidia Kefka" has less to do with FF6 than it has with FF8 or later entries, given its author.

OT, but it's not just nostalgia. I missed FF games that had adults, mature characters in them, because since FF7 there has been an infestation of teenagers, which is also quite commong in every other form of entertainment (side note : didnt know they made "Teen Iron Man" cartoons).

Lightning, Fang, Vanille, Snow and Sazh aren't teens.

[Kaslo]

A lot of people lately seem to apply the term "teens" to people in their early to mid-20s...

[Gokulo]

21 is not that old too, Vanille is 19, though she and Fang are technically old as fuck. Sazh is the only mature person here.

[Tyrath]

21 is not that old too, Vanille is 19, though she and Fang are technically old as fuck. Sazh is the only mature person here.

No, I'm pretty sure 5 of the 6 are mature. 21 is old enough.

[Niiro]

If you're comparign character designs between games I don't see why you should use a Dissidia design as representative for FFVI.
"Dissidia Kefka" has less to do with FF6 than it has with FF8 or later entries, given its author.

OT, but it's not just nostalgia. I missed FF games that had adults, mature characters in them, because since FF7 there has been an infestation of teenagers, which is also quite commong in every other form of entertainment (side note : didnt know they made "Teen Iron Man" cartoons).

Vincent was "27", Barret and Cid are in their 30s. Cait Sith (Reeve) is probably in his 30s or 40s, Red was almost 50. Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris were in their early 20s, Yuffie being the only teenager and a minor comic relief character.

Terra was 18, Bartz was 20, Cecil was 20, Firion was 18. All of these games had other significantly older (and younger) playable characters. The same can be said for 9 (Eiko was 6, Quina was 89), 10, and 12.

8 was the only FF with a significant amount of teenage characters (all of them) and that was kind of the point, being military academy students.

[miokomioko]

8 was the only FF with a significant amount of teenage characters (all of them) and that was kind of the point, being military academy students.

The most tired Japanese fascination ever. Plots revolving around teenagers with extraordinary abilities/skills/etc. that all go to school together. Haaaaate it. I'm actually proud of Square-Enix of avoiding that cliche... for the most part. I was kinda' sad to hear that it was the basis for Type-0.

[Mytiwar]

"Character design" means a lot more than what the end product visuals are due to the restrictions of current technology.

This will also apply to everyone else that said something similar; you just were the first to answer.

I didn't actually imply anything else in my comment than what it meant which is: however amazing and original their designs were in 1995 or whatever, they were still restricted by the technology of the time. I am still more interested in playing a game that looks smooth by today's standard than the sprites from back then.

If you say you'd rather play FFVI however shitty it looked than a remade version of it that's exactly the same thing except for the graphics, you all really need to get the nostalgia goggles off.

Yeah you're right cuz XIII obviously had the best character designs of the whole franchise with how pretty and shiny everything was.

Go get someone to help you out with that internet autism.

Not sure which barn side you were shooting with that bazooka but you missed it by a long shot.

[Kaslo]

This will also apply to everyone else that said something similar; you just were the first to answer.

I didn't actually imply anything else in my comment than what it meant which is: however amazing and original their designs were in 1995 or whatever, they were still restricted by the technology of the time. I am still more interested in playing a game that looks smooth by today's standard than the sprites from back then.

If you say you'd rather play FFVI however shitty it looked than a remade version of it that's exactly the same thing except for the graphics, you all really need to get the nostalgia goggles off.

idk FFVI still looks pretty fucking gorgeous, not 13 or 12, but still boss.

[Tyrath]

If you say you'd rather play FFVI however shitty it looked than a remade version of it that's exactly the same thing except for the graphics, you all really need to get the nostalgia goggles off.

I don't think anyone would say no to a FFVI that looked better and played exactly the same as the original. Only thing people wouldn't want a remake that changed things for the worse.

[miokomioko]

If you say you'd rather play FFVI however shitty it looked than a remade version of it that's exactly the same thing except for the graphics, you all really need to get the nostalgia goggles off.

You completely missed the point because we're not talking about a remade version of anything. I don't understand why you said that. We're talking about the personalities/stories/designs/concepts/costume/look/etc. of characters in different games.

Someone could be talking about character design for X old game being better then Y new game and it could have nothing to do with graphics. Imagine that. If you think nostalgia is the only reason you could like characters from older, graphically challenged games, you must be dense.

Nostalgia is most definitely not the only reason for preferring a charismatic/chaotic/unstable villain with a unique, gaudy, ornate style over a generic, Japanese, Bishōnen swordsman with long silver hair and a long black coat.

[Spira]

It was an example that character design doesn't mean the ingame sprite. I couldn't find a good pic of the original kefka design to use at the time. But here you are

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...6_Kefkaart.png

I think the fact that you couldnt find a good pic is testament to the idea that character design was never a big enough deal in the past for them to want to have featured it publicly. Ultimately, the players impressions are formed by in-game sprites, and not external artwork - moreso then than now, but its still mostly the same.

The most tired Japanese fascination ever. Plots revolving around teenagers with extraordinary abilities/skills/etc. that all go to school together. Haaaaate it. I'm actually proud of Square-Enix of avoiding that cliche... for the most part. I was kinda' sad to hear that it was the basis for Type-0.

what? you're kidding me. I LOVE that sort of thing.. makes me feel young all over again. I think a whole lot more people dig the school days theme than hate it - tho at the same time i think this depends on their personal life experiences as well.

This will also apply to everyone else that said something similar; you just were the first to answer.

I didn't actually imply anything else in my comment than what it meant which is: however amazing and original their designs were in 1995 or whatever, they were still restricted by the technology of the time. I am still more interested in playing a game that looks smooth by today's standard than the sprites from back then.

If you say you'd rather play FFVI however shitty it looked than a remade version of it that's exactly the same thing except for the graphics, you all really need to get the nostalgia goggles off.

I'd say neither is necessarily true. Nostalgia doesn't have very much to do with it, but rather that games like FFVI were considered masterpieces in their day. Even if some of the systems in place at the time were limited, many would consider making changes to them kinda "sacrament" and fixing something that isnt broken. A lot of players disliked FF4 DS.. and true enough, its kinda inferior to the 2D version in many ways.. a lot of its 2D elements that people loved were lost in the transition...

Remakes, even if graphical aren't always for the better if they don't do it properly...
I think for FF1-6, the best way to go ahead is with HD2D... which so far has always worked...

As for games that age well. FF6 wasn't too bad for a 2D game.. in terms of FFs on other platforms.. FFVIII and XII fare alot better than the others because they didn't emphasize so much on polygon count, which, as it turns out, isn't the best way to make things look pretty or more detailed.

edit: but back on topic.. whatever it was..
I'm really digging Serah's new look. The old one worked for whats its worth.. young lolita schoolgirl thing.. but she's matured oin XIII-2 and the new look shows this in some ways, even if she retains some of that girlyness in her clothes..

Lightning.. I didn't think her cape was quite as weird as the way her weapon holder was dangling at the back of her thighs.. either way I still loved the outfit cos it was suitably modern, militaristic and yet had a tinge of fantasy (i think it was the cape lol)

but now with a new outfit, instead of the half cape she has a skirt thing of feathers.. and an even more fantasy feel... i still dont know what to think of it

[Tyrath]

I think the fact that you couldnt find a good pic is testament to the idea that character design was never a big enough deal in the past for them to want to have featured it publicly. Ultimately, the players impressions are formed by in-game sprites, and not external artwork - moreso then than now, but its still mostly the same.

wat? That doesn't change the fact that you can't call nostalgia fags for thinking an old character had good character design just because the game existed in the days of sprite form.

[Spira]

I don't really get what you're saying..

but for characters that only existed in sprite form.. they DID have good character design, for its day. It isn't just nostalgia, its technology.
When a game was released in 16 bit, the best character design you had was from sprites or in-game pictures.
From later platforms, this could be from FMVs, character portraits and so on...
Before the advent of CG, good character design would boil down to how well described the character was (i'm talking about external/superficial), or illustrator interpretation.

If you're going to compare everything to the current bleeding edge then obviously you're going to be able to find fault in pretty much everything from prior generations.

[Tyrath]

Edit: double post

[Tyrath]

What I'm saying is the sprites are not involved at all. The actual gameplay characters are not involved. The previous Kefka vs Lulu argument was based solely on the artistic designs of the characters OUTSIDE the game's medium.

[Elcura]

As for games that age well. FF6 wasn't too bad for a 2D game.. in terms of FFs on other platforms.. FFVIII and XII fare alot better than the others because they didn't emphasize so much on polygon count, which, as it turns out, isn't the best way to make things look pretty or more detailed.

lol wut? More polygons = more detail. FFIX and XII pushed the limits on what the PS1 and PS2 could handle (not just in poly count), as a result producing some of the best looking games. It wasn't because they artistically felt they needed to hold back or something.