FFXIII-2

[Nevex]

FF will never show murder, sex, rape, drugs, violence, sadism, serious moral problems and issues in all their full glory

Why would any of these actually improve a FF plot? I find many otherwise excellent stories to be ruined by one or more of these elements. You can't just slap mature themes in a world that doesn't support them, you need to build an entire universe around them, which may take several years through many entries of the same franchise.

Just to name a case, Persona 4 makes great use of mature themes because we expect them in that kind of game, thanks to the previous entries of that franchise.
However some of them feel out of place because they're borderline unnatural (main character potentially having sex with a 13 year old who looks like 10 is just wrong, or 15 year old kids buying booze in a market) and were slapped in just to appeal 15 year old kids. You certainly don't appeal adult people with that kind of stuff, at least it didn't with me and I just found them to be extremely forced.

If the next mainstream FF suddenly had mature plot elements in, it would just feel incredibly out of place.

[Gokulo]

No one said it should. Actually, we never discussed how/if FF story should change suddenly, I dunno where you came from with your post, because the topic was different.

[Spira]

oh god do i smell a white knight?

i love the FF series, but there are very distinct weaknesses in every single one of them..

to answer on inconsistent.. the character development was uneven in that some characters would suddenly be very strong-willed at the spur of a moment, simply by being triggered by something someone else says, then switch back and forth between character growth and previous state (see Sazh, Lightning)..

either way XIII wasn't the most adult story not because of what happens in the story but the motivations behind the characters. some are understandable but quite a few were downright childish, and i'm not talking about Hope.

[Hyan]

What I find interesting is that both VII and X brought a lot of new blood to the franchise (me included) and the Japanese polls reflect this.. but so far XIII didn't manage to do that even though most teens I've heard of like the game.

If they can't turn that trend around, catering to that audience might end them. On the other hand, I don't think it's exactly easy to gain more fans from the ages 25+ crowd. Especially if they already think of the franchise as something childish.

[Alkar]

The PSN version of FFVI is a port of the PS1 version and I seriously doubt a PSP edition will ever come out with the console being on its way out.

[Gokulo]

The PSN version of FFVI is a port of the PS1 version and I seriously doubt a PSP edition will ever come out with the console being on its way out.

Oh I see, get the GBA one then ebviously. (I check it out and I was thinking about V, it's getting a PSP re-release)

[Alkar]

Oh I see, get the GBA one then ebviously. (I check it out and I was thinking about V, it's getting a PSP re-release)

Are you sure? FFV was released on PSN just like FFVI (in EU at least). Both are simply ports of the PS1 versions. The only game they've recently re-released on PSP is FFIV and I haven't heard anything else.

[Gokulo]

Actually I'm confused now. Because the PSN released don't have anything new and I'm sure some time ago we had news on another port that was supposed to be enhanced, I don't remember which game now :<

[Alkar]

Actually I'm confused now. Because the PSN released don't have anything new and I'm sure some time ago we had news on another port that was supposed to be enhanced, I don't remember which game now :<

I suppose you remember the announcement of FFIV: Complete Collection for PSP. It's the port of the GBA version with new graphic look+ a short new episode and the sequel all in one UMD.

[Gokulo]

I know what Complete Edition is, I played it But thb I don't remember if it was before or after that. Somehow I feel after, but...

[Eaglestrike]

oh god do i smell a white knight?

i love the FF series, but there are very distinct weaknesses in every single one of them..

to answer on inconsistent.. the character development was uneven in that some characters would suddenly be very strong-willed at the spur of a moment, simply by being triggered by something someone else says, then switch back and forth between character growth and previous state (see Sazh, Lightning)..

either way XIII wasn't the most adult story not because of what happens in the story but the motivations behind the characters. some are understandable but quite a few were downright childish, and i'm not talking about Hope.

I'd agree each FF had distinct strength and weaknesses.

I didn't think either character was really inconsistent at all: Sazh is a rather pessimistic, scared old man. He's just a normal guy, trying to be a father to a young son. He's had a lot of shit thrown his way and wants to avoid having more shit thrown his way, that's why he's "cowardly/weak" or whatever at the start. But over time he clearly begins to accept the fact that as a L'cie, he has power. And that as a father, he must do whatever he can to save his son.

Lightning wants to save her sister, but honestly has NO IDEA HOW, she's just going to plow forward and kill people until an idea pops up to allow her to do this. She's extremely frustrated about the entire situation which is why she's first really angry with Snow first half of the game. Because she sees no good option, she mostly just wishes she wasn't in the situation to begin with, which is why she's angry at Snow.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what specifics you mean about random strong-willed spurs. And I also didn't see the problem with them either, in their situation, hope is one of the few things they had at times, they HAD to latch onto it at times to make it through at all.

Motivations:

Lightning - Save her little sister.

Snow - Save his fiance.

Sazh - Save his son.

Hope - I'm along for the ride!

Fang - Figure out wtf happened in the past.

Vanille - Don't let Fang turn into a monster (again).

All the while they're being pushed forward by the fact that their time is limited, so some of those motivations are very hard.

What I find interesting is that both VII and X brought a lot of new blood to the franchise (me included) and the Japanese polls reflect this.. but so far XIII didn't manage to do that even though most teens I've heard of like the game.

If they can't turn that trend around, catering to that audience might end them. On the other hand, I don't think it's exactly easy to gain more fans from the ages 25+ crowd. Especially if they already think of the franchise as something childish.

"might end them"? XII and XIII still sold 6mil+ units.

And boy did I ever dislike X. I think the only reason I don't normally consider it worse than VIII is just because of the annoying draw system, I hated the characters in X so very much and it was also one of the worst endings to give a sequel to.

[miokomioko]

Motivations:

Lightning - Save her little sister.

Snow - Save his fiance.

Sazh - Save his son.

Hope - I'm along for the ride!

Fang - Figure out wtf happened in the past.

Vanille - Don't let Fang turn into a monster (again).

Also:

Lightning - Break out of her emotional coma induced by her parents' death.

Snow - Prove himself a worthy brother-in-law to Lightning and shake the guilt of Hope's mother's death.

Sazh - Fulfill his son's focus and eventually avenge his crystallization.

Hope - Avenge his mother's death.

Fang - Prevent her "little sister" Vanille from becoming a Cei'th or Ragnarok.

Vanille - Compensate for her and Fang getting Serah and Sazh's son branded l'Cie.

[Kaslo]

I'd agree each FF had distinct strength and weaknesses.

I didn't think either character was really inconsistent at all: Sazh is a rather pessimistic, scared old man. He's just a normal guy, trying to be a father to a young son. He's had a lot of shit thrown his way and wants to avoid having more shit thrown his way, that's why he's "cowardly/weak" or whatever at the start. But over time he clearly begins to accept the fact that as a L'cie, he has power. And that as a father, he must do whatever he can to save his son.

Lightning wants to save her sister, but honestly has NO IDEA HOW, she's just going to plow forward and kill people until an idea pops up to allow her to do this. She's extremely frustrated about the entire situation which is why she's first really angry with Snow first half of the game. Because she sees no good option, she mostly just wishes she wasn't in the situation to begin with, which is why she's angry at Snow.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what specifics you mean about random strong-willed spurs. And I also didn't see the problem with them either, in their situation, hope is one of the few things they had at times, they HAD to latch onto it at times to make it through at all.

Motivations:

Lightning - Save her little sister.

Snow - Save his fiance.

Sazh - Save his son.

Hope - I'm along for the ride!

Fang - Figure out wtf happened in the past.

Vanille - Don't let Fang turn into a monster (again).

All the while they're being pushed forward by the fact that their time is limited, so some of those motivations are very hard.




"might end them"? XII and XIII still sold 6mil+ units.

And boy did I ever dislike X. I think the only reason I don't normally consider it worse than VIII is just because of the annoying draw system, I hated the characters in X so very much and it was also one of the worst endings to give a sequel to.

X did have a pretty kick-ass throwback battle system which was something that kept me playing. Even if I hated Wakka with a passion.

[Eaglestrike]

X did have a pretty kick-ass throwback battle system which was something that kept me playing. Even if I hated Wakka with a passion.

Wakka was overall the worst, but this scene just made me hate both characters forever:

Also:

Lightning - Break out of her emotional coma induced by her parents' death.

Snow - Prove himself a worthy brother-in-law to Lightning and shake the guilt of Hope's mother's death.

Sazh - Fulfill his son's focus and eventually avenge his crystallization.

Hope - Avenge his mother's death.

Fang - Prevent her "little sister" Vanille from becoming a Cei'th or Ragnarok.

Vanille - Compensate for her and Fang getting Serah and Sazh's son branded l'Cie.

Yep, all true. Each character had multiple motivations/goals and some of them were working against the other characters. These aren't one-dimensional characters like X had. They're all juggling a variety of emotions/thoughts while being forced down a path in life and having to deal with it. Sometimes, they go a little crazy, completely normal, especially since you can also argue the magic coursing through them could effect their emotions. I mean they had like a week to go through an entirely brand new existential crisis.

[Lovex]

I recently replayed ff8 and I enjoyed it very much. I like the story and the characters and the way they are presented. So I don't think it's so much growth or Nostalgia. I didn't enjoy it as much as I did as a teenager, but the story is still very awesome and the game is amazing.

This is off topic, but I fucking HATE twilight and don't get it. I like harry potter though. I also saw The neverneding story on TV the other night and loved it all over again. I thik what I dislike about the series now, is the delivery of the characters and story isn't epic, or engaging enough. It comes off a little phony or awkward. For example, with ff13 I found myself thinking WTF with the way the story was being delivered. I think the DELIVERY of it is what I don't like.

Maybe it makes a lot of difference with reading (I enjoy reading very much, love it) as opposed to voice acting. The thing is, I love ffx. I really hope SE takes the franchise just a tad bit back in the direction of 7-10, while adding some of the elements of the later games. The amazing thing about 12,13 is that theyre so cool looking it's easy to play if you aren't someone who plays them mainly for the story and deliverance factor.

To note, FF is really the only video game i play. I'm not really into games. I've only ever really played grand theft auto 3-4 aside from final fantasy games. FF11 was my only MMO. This is an interesting topic because when I was a kid, FF7 came out and I didn't like it. After watching my brother play it and read the text out loud, I got into it just because I wanted to know what was going to happen. Ever since I played them consistantly and even went back to play 4-6. Oh, I also played Xenosaga series. This also has a flawless story but some god awful mechanics for episode 2. Episode 1 and 3 were good.

[Correction]

I think the DELIVERY of it is what I don't like.

You're struggling to say it, so I'll say it: How the player engages with the content of games (and novels, and film, and...) matters a lot, and many (it seems) were not sufficiently engaged with the thematic content of XIII and ultimately found themselves completely detached from the motivations of the characters. It is naturally easier to give a shit when the game is better at engaging your interest and sparking that emotional connection crucial to maintaining the aforementioned interest in seeing the protagonists proceed through an RPG's narrative. It must feel like a betrayal when a company that once effortlessly succeeded at engaging its core playerbase is struggling so hard to recapture it with its top-shelf franchise. I know I didn't like it when VIII didn't resonate with me to the same degree as the SNES games or VII.

I look at XIII-2 and say 'notto disu shitto agen' but I haven't lost all hope in the franchise. Maybe this time the characters will be fighting for causes I relate to.

[Eaglestrike]

I guess I'll just have to say that I still was engaged by XII and XIII and the delivery wasn't a problem for me. I could connect/understand the characters and feel for them. Not quite to the level as I saw Cloud back in those days and connected with him, but still a connection. And I'd say my cloud/VII connection has more to do with my unstable emotions/self-identity at the time than anything the game did.

[Apelila]

The one thing about 13 I didn't like was Hope's anger towards Snow. I know, original huh?

I didn't mind why he was angry, a 13 year old witnessing his mom dying is going to project anger about as well as the projection was portrayed. But the presentation that made it god awful was how long it dragged on. The time frame fits realistically - it took the span of 2ish days for him to finally errupt at snow. But that short realworld time span was made painfully longer for the players because it took place over half the damn game. Oddly enough after Hope shot is rage load he was infinetly more tolerable.

I've never understood all the Vanille hate though. The only times she was insufferable was towards Sazh when he was in PMS mode in the first hours of the game, but I attribute that to the voice actress missing cue's and going for "BE HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY DONT PANIC HAPPY" vs "Try to be chipper, don't panic dont panic dont panic ohshit".

[Jaxzer]

I'll admit at the end when Serah and Sazh's little boy appeared I swelled up a little. Sazh most definitely had the strongest backstory. If they could establish that kind of emotional connection with all the characters it's gold. One of the reasons FFIX is probably my favorite FF story of the series. Soundtrack XIII takes the cake hands down, I still catch myself humming the tunes.

[Exoduso]

I don't understand why they had to set up the story in such a way that essentially kicks all the original party members out of the story/gameplay...