FFXIII-2

[Eaglestrike]

I don't understand why they had to set up the story in such a way that essentially kicks all the original party members out of the story/gameplay...

Agreed.

[miokomioko]

I don't understand why they had to set up the story in such a way that essentially kicks all the original party members out of the story/gameplay...

Story: They are not kicked out of it. They will come back, possibly even as guest characters in the party. There's been so much talk about how they will be returning "in some form or another." Did you miss that info?

Gameplay: There is a delicate balance between creating a new cast that new players can connect with and and old cast for which returning players can be nostalgic about. You can't 100% please both players. Some developers don't really consider the new players to sequels and somewhat expect players to already be familiar with the cast and lore to make some sense of the situation (Diablo comes to mind) while other developers make damn sure that each installment doesn't completely alienate such players and their sequels for a franchise feel more like "spiritual successors" with the same title and themes (The Elder Scrolls, Breath of Fire, and The Legend of Zelda come to mind).

Square Enix is generally the latter when it comes to major Final Fantasy titles on the big-3 consoles. Small hand-held spin-offs like Crisis Core, Revenant Wings, or The After Years are a different story.

[Atreides]

edit: oops I was quoting something and it got lost lol

Anyway I really hope they take the opportunity in this one to better flesh out the world of Pulse/Cocoon.

I guess what I mean is that one of the things FF12 did really well that was missing from FF13 was this sense of a living/breathing world. The whole web of political intrigue that makes up the story, combined with the huge game world and supplemental materials make you wonder if Ivalice itself isn't supposed to be the star of the show.

It's a pity really, because I feel like the world of Pulse/Cocoon is ultimately more interesting, if only they'd focus on something more than characters.

[Exoduso]

Story: They are not kicked out of it. They will come back, possibly even as guest characters in the party. There's been so much talk about how they will be returning "in some form or another." Did you miss that info?

Gameplay: There is a delicate balance between creating a new cast that new players can connect with and and old cast for which returning players can be nostalgic about. You can't 100% please both players. Some developers don't really consider the new players to sequels and somewhat expect players to already be familiar with the cast and lore to make some sense of the situation (Diablo comes to mind) while other developers make damn sure that each installment doesn't completely alienate such players and their sequels for a franchise feel more like "spiritual successors" with the same title and themes (The Elder Scrolls, Breath of Fire, and The Legend of Zelda come to mind).

Square Enix is generally the latter when it comes to major Final Fantasy titles on the big-3 consoles. Small hand-held spin-offs like Crisis Core, Revenant Wings, or The After Years are a different story.

okay so for Story, I did miss that information. I know they talk about them as if they're "dead", but only Serah knows the truth, and bla bla bla... from the trailers they showed at E3 I really have no idea what the hell is going on with the storyline, which is okay because it'll give me incentive to play it when it's released.

Gameplay wise, I have no problem with them not being in the party... X-2 was one of the better games gameplay-wise BECAUSE they were not constricted to the "rules" they set for each character and his job/class in FFX. I do have a problem with completely alienating them from the storyline... Tidus, although it wasn't actually him but Shuyin, was a major part of the storyline... Wakka/Lulu were there, as was Kimahri. I'm just hoping that there will be a nice balance between the new and the old, like you said.

As for the world of Pulse/Cocoon, I do agree that they need to talk more about it and show more of what it is about, because it has a lot of potential.
Too bad we won't see any more until Versus comes out in ... 5 years? Heh..

[miokomioko]

I know they talk about them as if they're "dead", but only Serah knows the truth, and bla bla bla...

I'm pretty sure that's just Lightning.

There's an 8-chapter short epilogue that gives you an idea what each character has been up to since the ending scene of XIII. Everyone is pretty much accounted for (Sazh is driving shuttles/Hope is looking for his father/etc.) except for Lightning. She's unhappy about Vanille and Fang's fate and now, since the group are no longer super-powered l'Cie, she decides to go off on her own and not endanger anyone else to figure out how to "rescue" them. The end of the epilogue is Lightning being lost in a dark place, with no sense of time... very "death" like.

What we have seen from XIII-2 is that everyone except Serah appears to have accepted that Lightning is dead and that the game deals with alternate realities/timelines/etc. It's a possibility that XIII-2 primarily takes place in parallel dimension where Lightning, completely breaking out of her save-my-own-ass attitude, sacrificed herself to save Cocoon instead of Fang and Vanille. This Noel guy seems to have some sort of insight on how to steer the course of time to a timeline where neither Fang, Vanille, or Lightning have to die to save everyone. Maybe he's from XIII's timeline we're already familiar with and has some tie with Vanille and Fang (since he's obviously a Pulse native as well) and wants to save them from sacrificing themselves.

[Ratatapa]

where can i see that epilogue?

[miokomioko]

where can i see that epilogue?

Here ya' go~ I forget where it was originally published... some Japanese special edition something-or-other. This person translated it all on their blog.


Fabula Nova Crystallis Mythology: http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/201...mythology.html
Explains a lot of the Maker, fal'Cie, l'Cie, gods, humans, and how they are related. It also makes sense of where Lightning is and why she might be serving Etro. Expands on the Datalog Analects, but a very short text.

Prologue: http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/200...sode-zero.html
Pretty much just recaps the 13 days of before the start of XIII. Pretty long text that basically just feels more like fan fiction based on the "13 Days" Datalogs in the game.

Epilogue: http://dilly-shilly.blogspot.com/201...episode-i.html
Helps bridge the gap between XIII and XIII-2 by explaining what the characters decided to do when they lost their l'Cie powers and got Serah and Dahj back. 8 rather short chapters.

Something about Etro

Spoiler: show

It could be skimmed over or not understood in the game, but Etro was the reason that Fang did not go through with destroying Cocoon the first time. Etro intervened and turned Fang and Vanille to crystal, foiling the plans of the fal'Cie, and placed them in the vestige down on Pulse. Barthandalus specifically brought that vestige up with Anima inside to trigger the events all over again. Etro, being the creator of humans and made in the image of the Maker herself, constantly impedes the progress of opening the gate between the living world and the world of the dead. Also, Eidolons are suggested to be Etro's messengers to help inspire hope to her "children" when they feel all is lost.

[Alkar]

It was released with the Japanese Xbox360 version last December. I still don't understand why SE never bothered to localize any of this.

[Burningthought]

It was released with the Japanese Xbox360 version last December. I still don't understand why SE never bothered to localize any of this.

Perhaps the content and translation work wasn't finished in time for a worldwide simultaneous release, and they didn't want to blow money on something a lot of people would just pass on anyway, and the fact that most NA/Europeans don't re-buy copies of games as often as Japanese players do?

[Alkar]

Perhaps the content and translation work wasn't finished in time for a worldwide simultaneous release, and they didn't want to blow money on something a lot of people would just pass on anyway, and the fact that most NA/Europeans don't re-buy copies of games as often as Japanese players do?

I was talking about the novels <_<

[Insanecyclone]

[Defconnexion]

It was released with the Japanese Xbox360 version last December. I still don't understand why SE never bothered to localize any of this.

Standard operational procedures.

[Exoduso]

Oh god, again with the Dark Summons? lol... this is FFX-2 all over again..
Also,

Something about Etro

Spoiler: show

It could be skimmed over or not understood in the game, but Etro was the reason that Fang did not go through with destroying Cocoon the first time. Etro intervened and turned Fang and Vanille to crystal, foiling the plans of the fal'Cie, and placed them in the vestige down on Pulse. Barthandalus specifically brought that vestige up with Anima inside to trigger the events all over again. Etro, being the creator of humans and made in the image of the Maker herself, constantly impedes the progress of opening the gate between the living world and the world of the dead. Also, Eidolons are suggested to be Etro's messengers to help inspire hope to her "children" when they feel all is lost.

How come this was never mentioned in the actual game? I doubt the name Etro was even dropped throughout the entire storyline.

[miokomioko]

I would have to look it up, but I think Etro's intervening is "suggested" in the dialog somewhere... I definitely didn't realize it myself when I watched any cutscenes. I'll see if I can dig that up. I think it had something to do with the Pompa Sancta Parade at Nautilus which mentions a Goddess taking pity on the inhabitants of Cocoon and draining Ragnarok of its power, only resulting in the cracking of Cocoon's shell.

Also, in each Eidolon's summoning animation there is a message, written in an alternate alphabet (not cocoon/pulsian) which translates to latin written in the runes and effects that all mention Etro.

e.g. Odin's stuff has "By grace of Etro, let thunder herald your arrival." in it.

It really confuses the crap out of me as well why they would have left all the important mythology and lore which directly affects and ultimately causes the events in the game out of the primary storyline. It's all pretty much secretly dumped in the Analects and only accessible if you do some of the more difficult optional missions after the game itself ends. I think Etro is literally only name-dropped in one Analect, and elsewhere just referred to as "The Goddess."

[Exoduso]

That's really damn confusing lol... I expect them to at least have some sort of introduction to all of this in the beginning of the game, otherwise it will just be uncomfortable.

I also don't understand how they plan on starting the next game without giving the player the epilogue information... What are they thinking, honestly? And I was assuming that all the Pulse natives were gone... so where did this kid come from?

[Eaglestrike]

That's really damn confusing lol... I expect them to at least have some sort of introduction to all of this in the beginning of the game, otherwise it will just be uncomfortable.

I also don't understand how they plan on starting the next game without giving the player the epilogue information... What are they thinking, honestly? And I was assuming that all the Pulse natives were gone... so where did this kid come from?

Pulse is huge, we only visited certain sections of Pulse and went to one village. It's not hard at all to believe there's someone else on the planet somewhere.

[Exoduso]

Pulse is huge, we only visited certain sections of Pulse and went to one village. It's not hard at all to believe there's someone else on the planet somewhere.

But still, when they got down there we saw more than one area where civilization had existed, and everything seems to have been in ruins... also, for some reason I seem to remember a war happening down there and everything getting wiped out. While it is possible that we only investigated a tiny majority of the world, and there is much left out there, they should still have integrated it better IMO.

After reading the Epilogue that were linked here before, it does suggest that there are still natives of Pulse, but I don't know... the whole set up for this sequel seems a bit far-fetched... how is Lightning all of a sudden in this alternate timeline? How did she disappear? Some stuff just don't make much sense, and hopefully they will once you start playing it, because I thought the story had a pretty decent closure and didn't need this sequel in the first place.

[Eaglestrike]

But still, when they got down there we saw more than one area where civilization had existed, and everything seems to have been in ruins... also, for some reason I seem to remember a war happening down there and everything getting wiped out. While it is possible that we only investigated a tiny majority of the world, and there is much left out there, they should still have integrated it better IMO.

After reading the Epilogue that were linked here before, it does suggest that there are still natives of Pulse, but I don't know... the whole set up for this sequel seems a bit far-fetched... how is Lightning all of a sudden in this alternate timeline? How did she disappear? Some stuff just don't make much sense, and hopefully they will once you start playing it, because I thought the story had a pretty decent closure and didn't need this sequel in the first place.

lol look at this guy expecting FF stories to make total sense, did you even play FFXI? Most of this shit will get some sort of explanation, though only half will be in the game, the other half Elmer will need to translate. And even then, you'll need some speculation to fully connect the dots.

We hardly saw any of Pulse, even with what we did see. It was clear to us that Pulse was much larger than Cocoon and we didn't even go everywhere on Cocoon. That was actually one of my main issues with the game, they give you so much more world than they let you obtain in these last two games.

[Alkar]

Honestly, Noel can travel through time and he knows something about the future lol. SE also said that he's connected with that new guy we see alongside Lightning in the trailers and I believe he's also connected to Lightning herself. He reminds me a lot of "Trunks" from DB.
I wouldn't he surprised if he turns out to be Light's son or something.

[miokomioko]

We gon' get Necron'd.