FFXIII-2

[Ayn]

Final Fantasies would 100x as gorgeous if they somehow managed to somehow stay true to Amano's concepts.

I raise your Vivi one Squall and Rinoa.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b3...Rinoaamano.jpg

[Greedouw]

Maybe I'm the only one, but FFXII's character designs are some of my favorites of the series

[Lucavi]

FF1 - Unknown, you can assume whatever you want about the character's age but most likely in their early 20s.
FF2 - Same, never really played it much, but you can assume that Firion and such are teenagers or turning young adults.
FF3 - Kids all over this motherfucker. Never played it much though.
FF4 - Cecil is 20, young adult, basically just out of his teens. Kain is basically the same. Then you have the likes of Rydia, Palom, Porom etc. Kids up in this bitch too.
FF5 - Kids up in this bitch! I kid, but there's basically only 1 old guy in the main party, everyone else is 20 or under. And Bartz acts like he's 5 for most of the time.
FF6 - I'll give you this, Terra as a lead is young all the same though. Most varied cast I can think of before 7.
FF7 - Cloud is a young adult too, Tifa and Aerith as well (Yuffie is easy), rest of the cast is older.

SE's character demographic is obviously teenagers and young adults, their characters for the most part support that. Old FF's are still about young people saving the world.

Even in XIII, Lightning was the same age as most FF protagonists. And in XIII-2 Serah is around the same age as Lightning (if not older than Lightning was in XIII). Noel looks to be the same age.

Sub-characters like Barret don't matter much to SE when it comes to appeal. Extra characters like that are fine, because they still have their young people to carry the demographic through the game.



By stiff voice acting do you mean, no voice acting? By overabundance of crazed belts and Nomura-isms, did you ever stop to look at Amano's designs for the characters? They're equally crazy, yet people don't seem to give a shit. Half of Amano's original designs are so fucking crazy they have to be toned down to even be implemented. I love the guy (I respect both Nomura and Amano as artists a lot), but shit is mad.

Also, look at FF: Dissidia, proving that SE would make the old characters look exactly like the new characters if they remade them with current tech.



Apart from X-2, I see more or less the same shit I've seen in past FF's with better graphics and different delivery. I'm not sure what you mean by cute, in terms of criticisms it's hard to pin down. Maybe you just don't like the music, idk.



Again, Lightning is around 20, Serah in XIII-2 is around 20, Noel is likely around 20 as well.

tl;dr YOUNG PEOPLE RUININ' OUR GAMES

You're confusing what's in a concept design vs. what's in a game, which is what I'd expect from you. Let's take FFIV. Cecil is a young adult. Did you ever see him acting like it? Not really. Cecil could have been anywhere from 20 to 40 with the way he acted throughout the game. Compare that to modern FF "youths". No comparison. Again, taking FFVII. Cloud, Aeris and Tifa are early 20's. None of them act anything like "children". Yuffie is the youngest in the game and acts as such. Reeve, Cid, Barret and Vincent are all 30 and over, and act like it. Focusing strictly on Cloud, Tifa and Aeris, you aren't seeing the same level of immaturity that we're seeing in modern FF's, mostly because the increased processing power and hardware is allowing for more detail depictions of what the developers were initially going on. Still no comparison between the older games and the new. Moving on.

Character designs. Of course I've seen Amano's work. Of course I've seen Nomura's work. I already talked about this in my previous post; if the processing power of today's systems was around for that era of games, we'd have nothing but everyone in fluffy clown suits in polka dot pants with black lipstick on. I know this. Everyone knows this. This is completely irrelevant to my point, however, which was that today's designs are complete carbon copies compared to what they used to be, whether through technological limitations or anything else. Moving on.

Voice acting. That's exactly what I mean. If I have to choose between no voice acting or the sub-par level of voice acting quality that's currently in FF's, its a non-decision. For every Auron, there are 10 Hopes, Vanilles and Yuna/Tidus laughing scenes. Its amazing how wide the disparity between quality Disney movie voice acting or quality anime voice acting (Cowboy Bebop immediately comes to mind) is compared to modern day JRPG voice work. This says nothing about the original actors, simply the dubs.

If you missed the pop in XIII and the pop in XIII-2 trailers, go back and watch. XII was a pleasant departure from an unsettling trend, and gets a pass, but X-2, many of the latest Kingdom Heart works, and XIII and XIII-2 feature some pretty shudder-worthy Jpop.

Your tl;dr is completely off-base. If anything, its more of a sense of JRPGs always made for a specific age range, and myself simply moving out of that range as time goes on. Its not like the age of the main protagonists has ever gone up or down. They usually hover between 17-22, and I can't think of a single FF that's deviated from that point. I'm nearing 30 now, though, so its me that has changed, along with the technology used to make the games, not so much the core of the games. That being said, I'm happy that I grew up in the time period I did; I couldn't think of any FF's I'd rather have as my favorites than the one's I currently do, although I'm always thankful for games like Dissidia that can put new takes on old classic songs.

@Mikoko: If that was serious, then I'm sure you have a fetish for clowns and circus acts. I think the only Amano character design I've liked over the in-game work was Amarant from IX.

[Elcura]

I'm not confusing concept design for what's in the game. Your problem was that the characters are all teenagers or too young, they're basically the same age throughout the FF series (main chars around 20, sub characters any age). How they act and shit is a different story. If that was your problem then I wouldn't care. But that wasn't your argument, perhaps you should take more care in your bitching?

Cloud acts like an adult? He acts like a confused, scared boy for most of the game. He only nuts up near the end. Cecil is just as confused and conflicted and if you think that Barrett or Cid are good representations of adulthood - they aren't. Barrett could have been 17, acted the same and nothing would be different. Cid too. Balthier is 22, he acts fine. Ashe is a fucking teenager, but she acts like a grown up woman. Larsa IS a kid, and he acts like a mature person. Zidane, Dagger and Freya are all young in IX, but they don't act like whiny kids. Zidane gets shit done. Lulu is also a young adult who acts mature (Oh FFX, making me look bad). In XIII Lightning was young and mature, but stunted and slowly grew up. Hope was immature and bratty, but matured and grew up. Snow is supposed to be an adult who acts like he's 5 as well.

It's all to do with the characters at the time, it has nothing to do with how FF has been progressing. Sometimes the characters are good, gripping and mature, other times they're Tidus and Yuna. My point ultimately is that old or new, characters are characters and a story is a story. No matter what the tech or the time, the process for making these characters isn't changing - it doesn't need to change. All you need is a pen and paper.

As for designs, complete carbon copies of what? Old FFs? Other fantasy? Other JRPGs? You think old FF's didn't have influences? What exactly is your complaint? A guy in armour, a wizard in robes, a elf thief with cloth armour? Are these fucking amazing designs? Wow, that's a lot of questions.

Your voice acting thing is completely fucking stupid. FF generally has good voice actors and a great quality compared to other JRPGs. You think Yuna and Tidus without voices would have been so memorable (for the wrong reasons, but still), you think Basch vs Gabranth would have been so awesome with just text?

You think old FF's are better for having no voice acting? I think they're worse. Done well, FF1-6 could have been so much more emotional and gripping with voices and real visuals. Then you compare top quality Disney movies and an anime famous for it's English VAs to the majority of JRPGs? lol. How much anime have you seen? Because Cowboy Bebop quality VA is a rare thing. Disney/Glibli movies are the exception.

Jpop/cute concern turned out to be more benign that I thought.

Your tl;dr is completely off-base. If anything, its more of a sense of JRPGs always made for a specific age range, and myself simply moving out of that range as time goes on. Its not like the age of the main protagonists has ever gone up or down. They usually hover between 17-22, and I can't think of a single FF that's deviated from that point. I'm nearing 30 now, though, so its me that has changed, along with the technology used to make the games, not so much the core of the games. That being said, I'm happy that I grew up in the time period I did; I couldn't think of any FF's I'd rather have as my favorites than the one's I currently do, although I'm always thankful for games like Dissidia that can put new takes on old classic songs.

That's the fucking point! Final Fantasy ISN'T changing, YOU are. You think old FF characters are so good compared to new? They aren't. Whether you like them more or not is irrelevant, you can find similarities and connections between old and new characters easily.

[Ayn]

Even though Cecil and Kain are 20-21ish, did they ever strike anyone else as feeling.. I dunno, older than that?

[Jaxzer]

Having just finished Catherine the NA voice acting was outstanding. Guess it is just jprpgs but I'd prefer the JPN voice acting with subs over NA for any of the current gen FFs

[Tyrath]

I still think bad voice acting is better than voice acting I can't understand, so I've never understood the people who like subs better. But thats just me.

[Kerberoz]

If the voice acting is bad, I'd rather it be in a language I can't understand, so I don't notice how bad it is.

[Bregor]

Maybe I'm the only one, but FFXII's character designs are some of my favorites of the series

Agree. I felt Vaan as the young, idealistic male protagonist was a huge improvement over Zidane and Tidus, and his dynamic with Penelo always seemed very natural. In fact all six main playable characters all hit the right notes. Their appearances and voice acting is also very well done, to say nothing of Penelo and Fran "dat ass" moments.

Even though Cecil and Kain are 20-21ish, did they ever strike anyone else as feeling.. I dunno, older than that?

Probably because they were fostered by the King, enlisted into Baron's armies at a young age, and matured through their service and dedication. How else could you explain two 20-year-olds becoming captains of the Red Wings and Dragoons, respectively?

Anyway, I'm getting pretty excited for XIII-2. My one gripe with XIII's story was the lack of interesting and sustained secondary characters (needed more Jihl) so I'm hoping that the sequel will take more time with that.

[Kurokikaze]

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/08/28/ne...g-youd-expect/

New XIII-2 trailer. Plays the battle theme for a little longer than those clips from E3 - sounds fun to play.

[Gokulo]

Late a couple of pages actually, so before people get too excited - it's the same one with the glimpse of Hope

[miokomioko]

How ironic.

[Fhloston]

That is usually a sign that that person will turn into a enemy at some point. Just SE adding a potential friend turns foe moment to get people curious and maybe drawn into the story more.

I'm calling it right now. Noel becomes the villain and will pilot a keyboard-driven machine as the final boss.

[miokomioko]

Lightning's unnamed antagonist already seems like a "dark-world" adult version of Noel... or his older brother. My money is on a Wings of the Goddess style Lilisette/Lilith alternate timeline situation.

[Ayn]

Agree. I felt Vaan as the young, idealistic male protagonist was a huge improvement over Zidane and Tidus, and his dynamic with Penelo always seemed very natural. In fact all six main playable characters all hit the right notes. Their appearances and voice acting is also very well done, to say nothing of Penelo and Fran "dat ass" moments.

Honestly, I didn't mind Zidane as a protagonist. Vaan really felt forced though -- probably due in part to the fact that he wasn't initially supposed to be the main character.

Don't get me wrong: I like Vaan, but I liked him as a supporting character more (FFTA2, Dissidia 012). Then again perhaps it's more the fault of XII's weird development mishaps than him as a character..

[Kiarax]

Lightning's unnamed antagonist already seems like a "dark-world" adult version of Noel... or his older brother. My money is on a Wings of the Goddess style Lilisette/Lilith alternate timeline situation.

Brother makes perfect sense. Serah is trying to find her sister and Noel is trying to find his brother. Those 2 end up together and Lightning and the other dude are enemies. Cliche as fuck.

[miokomioko]

Oh man... Etro took Lightning and Buniberzei took Noel's brother. Bleh.

[Nevex]

Brother makes perfect sense. Serah is trying to find her sister and Noel is trying to find his brother. Those 2 end up together and Lightning and the other dude are enemies. Cliche as fuck.

Not cliche for SE standards.
I can't think of any other major SE game where that kind of scenario has happened.

[Charismatic]

dem nuthuggers

[Hyan]

Hm yeah, cliche as it may be it sounds like fun. Especially if someone dies.