FFXIII-2

[Kaslo]

Also, XI and XIV don't ship as a "final" product, they are constantly evolving and changing, so its not fair to really count them

[brand]

Well I suppose it's pretty subjective, but I'd say (and I don't think I'd be alone) that they've been reluctant in the past to listen to their playerbase and shape new entries based around their opinions (I.e. going from XII to XIII and pretty much presenting the complete opposite in terms of strengths and weaknesses). I get that these games are worked on by different teams in a staggered way, but that's not to say they shouldn't be learning from each other's mistakes based on feedback they receive. The difference between XIII-2 and XIII is so remarkable that it gives me hope that this will be the case for future entries.

I enjoyed XIII, but it definitely strayed a lot from what I consider as positive factors in final fantasy games, and XIII-2 is doing a lot to remedy that.

First, I understand your subjective opinion, and that I am about to give another one. I don't understand why this constitutes "falling off". I've never found listening to the playerbase has ever been a successful point for new games. Even updating old ones, there is a dangerous line because no one has the "right" opinion, and listening to the wrong one could be disastrous. Sure, this works for continuing lines, whereby you take old systems and reuse them. There, it's perfectly fine to figure out what worked and what didn't via popular opinion.

For a new game though, as 12 to 13 was, they took a chance on innovation. It would be completely boring to get more of the same every few years just because it worked the first few times. And to be honest, it kind of is. The character development won't be because its always a different set of people, but the circumstances are completely predictable. In some way the world is ending, and a misfit group of adventurers happen to have the tools and skills to save it. What makes it interesting, and we are in the realm of subjective again, is the combat system, how we get through the story.

This isn't their first time changing things up, either. job systems, materia, magic draw, learning from items, boards. They've been doing this since 5, and I don't see why its such a problem now. 13 just happened to be the first time it tried something new story-wise as well. I don't find this to be "falling off track". Airships and open towns just didn't make sense to tell this particular story.

That aside, excited for 13-2, etc. The story makes open world sense again.

[Kaslo]

First, I understand your subjective opinion, and that I am about to give another one. I don't understand why this constitutes "falling off". I've never found listening to the playerbase has ever been a successful point for new games. Even updating old ones, there is a dangerous line because no one has the "right" opinion, and listening to the wrong one could be disastrous. Sure, this works for continuing lines, whereby you take old systems and reuse them. There, it's perfectly fine to figure out what worked and what didn't via popular opinion.

For a new game though, as 12 to 13 was, they took a chance on innovation. It would be completely boring to get more of the same every few years just because it worked the first few times. And to be honest, it kind of is. The character development won't be because its always a different set of people, but the circumstances are completely predictable. In some way the world is ending, and a misfit group of adventurers happen to have the tools and skills to save it. What makes it interesting, and we are in the realm of subjective again, is the combat system, how we get through the story.

This isn't their first time changing things up, either. job systems, materia, magic draw, learning from items, boards. They've been doing this since 5, and I don't see why its such a problem now. 13 just happened to be the first time it tried something new story-wise as well. I don't find this to be "falling off track". Airships and open towns just didn't make sense to tell this particular story.

That aside, excited for 13-2, etc. The story makes open world sense again.

They have been doing it since day one.

FF1: Chose party for the entire game based on predetermined roles
FF2: Customizing characters by in-battle playstyle
FF3: First Job System
FF4: Rotating Party members based on story with alternate roles
FF5: Enhanced Job System
FF6: Magicite
FF7: Materia
FF8: GF/Draw
FF9: Learning from Equipment
FF10: Spheregrid and enhanced ATB
FF12: Removal of separate battle screen and license board
FF13: Increased ATB system and in-battle role changes

[brand]

That's great. Even more evidence that this has always been the MO. I started at 7 and worked backwards a little, but I'm not as familiar with before 5 and didn't want to speculate.

[Spira]

They've always reworked the feel of each numbered FF game. The real difference is where some new elements are really old concepts that have been repackaged and tweaked in a little way to make it more deep or more appealing.

If you count main lineage spin-offs, FF3, 5, 10-2, 11 and 14 all use variations of the job system but in very distinct ways. Some were the result of real innovation (like XIs subjobs) whilst others were just technically impossible in the very beginning (X-2s changing in battle).

You can say that the changes could be based on player feedback or not. It's a subjective opinion, just as how progress based on feedback for some can be seen as pandering to others.

Personally (battle gameplay wise) the thing that I feel is most relevant as important is that no system is really better or worse, simply different.
Each system will have it's fans and haters because of its balance or imbahax-ness.

I'm only happy that XIII-2 actually follows with a tweaked CSB/paradigm shift system instead of being entirely different. To me this is like how FF4-2 feels like it has gameplay continuity, whereas X-2 is like an entirely different game

[Hyan]

Imo XIII removed a lot of unnecessary tediousness and slow pace that was hardly justifiable even back then (for other than technical reasons). The battle flow is smoother and it doesn't feel as much of a drag. The battle transition screen came back from XII but at least it is rather quickly dealt with as well. XIII-2 takes this a bit further as well as we lose stuff like paradigm shift animations.

Call me ADHD but it's a pain in the ass to play the older entries at this point. I can't figure out a good reason to justify why they must be such drags gameplay wise and that's what makes it annoying. They don't need to be as slow-paced as they are. I feel like that's the only reason they took relatively longer to clear than the newer games did.

So that said I think there is considerable over-all improvement in the new entries as far as gameplay goes. I felt the same way about X-2's combat compared to X's. Not just different, but better.

As far as fans go, I can't think of a worse fanbase than the FF fanbase. Last thing they need to do is listen to their polarized opinions largely based on 90's standards. IMO they need to look at other JP action games and go from there.

[Nevex]

As far as fans go, I can't think of a worse fanbase than the FF fanbase.

The Sonic fanbase.

[Hyan]

You brought the big guns, I see.

Well, I think they've been saying sega should ditch Sonic's friends? Hard to disagree with that.

But if we think about the creepiness factor, them and ME fanbase is definitely up there.

[Nevex]

@3:31 you can see Protectga being one of the available abilities on Noel's SYN Crystarium tree and it's available quite early in the game to boot.
Yay for AoE buffs!

[Gokulo]

Inability to retry battles, lulz.

[Ratatapa]

If it's like 13 not like it matters there is a save point each 5min

[Gokulo]

If it's like 13 not like it matters there is a save point each 5min

Actually, you can save everywhere in this one.

[Ratatapa]

Even easier lol

[Nevex]

Inability to Retry if you fail the Mog Clock makes sense actually. Otherwise you could just spam Retry until you get a pre-emptive strike and make the entire system pointless.

[Hyan]

Japanese are the Master Trolls. Here's the final nail in the coffin for proof.



I will feed off the fanboy's tears. It will be glorious.

[Nevex]

I have never really cared much about the chocobo theme so they can do all the experiments they want with it.

Just listened to the OST (except for disc 4 since I read that the names of the tracks are spoilers-heavy) and I have to say that I'm very impressed by it.
I have never seen such a diverse soundtrack in a RPG, let alone in a FF.

The influence of FFXIII's OST is definitely there but at the same time Mizuta and Hamauzu didn't have any qualms in trying new things.
The rap and hip-hop tracks are surprisingly catchy and not annoying at all, while the heavy metal ones are limited enough that they shouldn't bother anyone who isn't a fan of them.

It's a shame that purist fans who think time has stopped 15 years ago are going to trash this OST because "there are too many songs with lyrics", "where is the classic fanfare/prelude?", "they botched the chocobo theme" and "lolhip-hop/rap/heavy metal".

[Vincento]

Most of it feels too techno. I could see complaining about lyrics and such but that really isn't it. Just listening to the playlist a lot of the songs feel the same.

I preferred the old style with songs like Cid's Theme, Yuna's Theme, Aerith's Theme, Fragments of Memories, To Zanarkand, A Dream That Will End Sometime, Oeilvert(The Place I'll Return to Someday's other version) etc.

This doesn't mean the OST isn't good, I'm just not a fan of how futuristic ff has gotten - I guess. Needs moar steampunk.

[Lonely]

Goddamn that soundtrack is just so glorious. It is getting harder to keep looking at media for ffxiii-2 since the more you know, the more its going to ruin the initial experience for when its out next month.

[samalis]

Japanese are the Master Trolls. Here's the final nail in the coffin for proof.



I will feed off the fanboy's tears. It will be glorious.

Jesus Christ what were they thinking

[Alkar]

Is that the choco theme or there's another one that could be used when riding one? They mentioned there's a special Red Chocobo in the game, most likely similar to the Lvl 99 Red Chocobo from FFXII, and the name of the track surely fits with that monster and could be a battle theme?
FFX-2 used a completely different theme for riding chocobos so it's possible that there's another track for it.