9/11 Museum Executives' Get Massive Paychecks Off Donations

[Acturus]

in response to what Acturus said: what archi said.

Absolutely, but I would want to understand what "on the high side" is quantified as.

It goes back to the first part of what solanis said, the work has to justify the salary, and if it does, then there's nothing wrong with what they're getting paid.

[rog]

This is newsworthy? Every time you donate money, someone is taking a large portion of it to cover their "expenses".

[archibaldcrane]

Absolutely, but I would want to understand what "on the high side" is quantified as.

Do you really read that little?

The average base salary for a CEO of a mid-size foundation like the memorial is about $160,000

[Acturus]

Do you really read that little?

I did, but it's hard to take things at face value in the article. Not to sound like slick Willy, but I want to know what mid-sized means.

I'm not casting a blind eye on this, far from it, but I also refuse to believe that these executives are ripping off little old ladies to pad their wallets like the article wants me to believe.

It's a double-edged sword that the thing hasn't fully opened yet either. It's hard to justify that much money in upfront cost, but if the results are more than the "average mid-sized foundation" produces, then it's going to be hard to say "they're making too much." Obviously I'm nothing more than an armchair quarterback as far as the logistics go, so meh to it all I say.

[Yuri-G]

I see what you're saying and I agree, but I guess I'm just too cynical to entertain the possibility that what they're doing is worth that much.

[Acturus]

I see what you're saying and I agree, but I guess I'm just too cynical to entertain the possibility that what they're doing is worth that much.

I'd be in the same boat as well, but I work for a large non-profit corporation, and based on the work that I see my executive leadership do, I feel that they earn every dollar of their 6 and 7 figure salaries.

[Correction]

I want to know what mid-sized means.

The number is not shrouded in mystery. The staff page (and the article) lists 11 executives. That seems to be all of them (minus the board of directors, which I can only assume isn't getting paid). Compare that to your 'large non-profit corporation' to get a picture of what mid-sized means. The total construction budget for the memorial appears to be $500 million, so yeah the NYPost (pfft) article is being pretty incendiary about the whole 'children raised pennies' issue but if compared to other similary sized non-profits these salaries prove exorbitant then they deserve the scorn.

[rog]

Do you really read that little?

It says average. Just because some are making more than double that doesn't mean their salaries are out of the ordinary. I'm sure there are plenty of non profit executives who make even more.

[Anton]

Ah, the old 'profitable' nonprofit organization.

Sorry to shatter the idealism and heartwarming feeling you get from giving your money to the old guy and the crying africans on tv, but I'll bet the old guy is pocketing 80 cents of of every dollar you sent. Kids can eat for pennies in Sally Struthers countries, and the new way of thinking about NPOs is in line with in-profit companies - Motivated management is Happy management.

I just finished an entrepreneurial class with some Grade A dopes who wanted to make, no joke, "A non-profit gym for seniors on a membership basis". Just stop for a moment and reflect on that.

Anyway, I had to figure out what an NPO was. There's really nothing to it: a nonprofit organization does not pay shareholders, issue stock, or enrich an individual. That's all you have to do, and then you don't pay income or property tax. But then wages are part of the organization's cost structure - paying salaries isn't using profit, it's a pre-profit calculation - nor is paying salaries out of your 'surplus' (which is technically your profit). Furthermore, your hired employees aren't necessarily bound to live your pious life, so retaining key management with big salaries could be considered 'necessary', so long as no individual makes a fortune.

So the whole thing is kind of a joke until you become so big you're expected to issue public financial statements and submit to regular auditing - even then, it's still ok to pay your top management six figure salaries (you're big now, you got the bucks) to hold on to your best people in a competitive labour market. There I just dodged a lawsuit.

On the flipside, an NPO can easily be struggling between donation drives, with execs working for a dollar, and burning out their employees with long hours. They exist too. As do the NPOs that are as selfless as the twelve apostles. In America the exact rules and methodology governing NPO's varies state-to-state, so you can bet the legitimacy of an NPO varies in a similar fashion. Furthermore, who's to say a struggling, good-meaning NPO won't retain every penny they can to survive the same way a greedy NPO might to skirt the IRS rulebook? How do you tell the difference? Do you even care enough to look for clues when they're showing Ground Zero on TV with some somber trumpet soloist?

You don't.

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"While they are able to earn a profit, more accurately called a surplus, such earnings must be retained by the organization for its self-preservation, expansion and future plans... Some nonprofit organizations put substantial funds into hiring and rewarding their internal corporate leadership... These include effective internal management, ensuring accountability for results, and monitoring the performance of different divisions or projects in order to better benefit from their capital and workers. Those require satisfied management and that, in turn, begins with the organization's mission."
"The National Association of Parliamentarians has raised concerns about the implications of this trend for the future of openness, accountability, and understanding of grassroots concerns in nonprofit organizations. Specifically, they note that nonprofit organizations, unlike business corporations, are not subject to market discipline for products and shareholder discipline over their capital; therefore, without membership control of major decisions such as election of the board, there are few inherent safeguards against abuse.[9][10] A rebuttal to this might be that as nonprofit organizations grow and seek larger donations, the level of scrutiny rises, including expectations of audited financial statements.[11]"

According to wikipedia.

[Plow]

The article is made to make it sound like these people were working for shit, and went "Oh hey, let's rip off little kids for their pennies to get rich!"

These people most likely took pay cuts to do this work, however silly a "charity" that's not actually helping people may be.

But yeah, this is virtually meaningless, the information necessary to make any kind of remotely informed decision on the "right or wrong" -ness is nowhere to be found in that article.

[Anton]

These people most likely took pay cuts to do this work, however silly a "charity" that's not actually helping people may be.

But yeah, this is virtually meaningless, the information necessary to make any kind of remotely informed decision on the "right or wrong" -ness is nowhere to be found in that article.

These are company-leading managers working in New York, where a similar position in a similar sized investment bank could easily be making double. Where's your sympathy for these selfless people?

[Bregor]

So the top four people made $300k+ and everyone else's salary is within reason?

You know if there wasn't any money in it for these people, this whole memorial shit wouldn't be happening at all.

Just sayin'. People don't work for free.

^

[Xno Kappa]

The first rule of fundraising is don't give nothing to nobody. Period. No charities, no homeless people, Salvation Army, Red Cross, starving Africans, nothing. You can't be raising funds and giving funds away at the same time. That's like getting high on your own supply.

[Pirian]

I was honestly wondering when somebody would make that reference.

[Izzy]

Nobodies saying they should work for free, but an average salary of 250K/year while working in a non-profit seems a bit exorbitant.

I work for a very famous non-for-profit. Our CEO makes 400k plus, and there are 5 other executives that make over 200k.

[Darus Grey]

I run a NPO, where I donate all the profits of my for-profit corporation to the NPO(so I don't have to pay taxes on the earned income), and then use the NPO to buy things I would of bought anyways that are related to my NPO(specifically, video games, arcade machines, TVs, misc electronics, a car, etc), and then pay myself a salary for the difference at a personal income tax rate much lower. (granted, I do actually run a public gaming center with these things, but I could just liquidate these assets to a colluding third party to basically give them to myself personally)

Legal in my state!

For the record, this is how rich people dodge taxes for real, by running your own NPO, you get to donate it well still having control of how the assets are spent(i.e. on things you want, not necessarily physical things).

Plutocracy ftw.

[ZarakiKujata]

Wasn't this an episode of The Boondocks?

Which one?

[Correction]

I gotta say it?

http://i53.tinypic.com/34ye1q8.jpg

[Dmitry]

Which one?

Probably the best one of season 3

[Lucavi]

Hey, the 9/11 museum is meant to honor America, and what's more American than execs doing this?

This. Capitalism at its finest. What are you people, communists? Distributing the money equally and evenly? Pshh...

Also, shouldn't have donated in a warzone.