Middle East Revolutions: Current Bahrain protests getting violent

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Belated info I promised regarding the Vodaphone Pro Egyptian Government spam.

First article as a link in the first paragraph "admitted to complying" and it links to the article that I posted following the first post.

Spoiler: show

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...l-be-watching/

Andy Greenberg
The Firewall

Security
As Egyptians Reconnect, Their Government Will Be Watching

Feb. 4 2011 - 2:40 pm
By ANDY GREENBERG

Vodafone provided a helpful reminder Thursday that the political power of technology cuts both ways: The mobile network admitted to complying with Egyptian government requests that it spam out a flood of pro-Mubarak text messages to its customers, including one that called on citizens to “confront the traitors and criminals” protesting in the streets.

But Open Net Initiative (ONI) researcher Helmi Noman argues the real threat to digital dissidents isn’t technology’s propaganda-spewing potential; It’s surveillance.


Two years ago, Noman called attention in a blog post to another Vodafone confession: After food riots in 2008 in which a group of protesters tore down a large poster of Hosni Mubarak, the company complied with the Egyptian government’s demand that it turn over protesters’ phone data. Twenty-one people were eventually convicted in connection to the riots.


“We’ve had to hand over data on people in Egypt due to the food riots,” Vodafone’s global head of content standards Annie Mullins reportedly told a crowd at the Westminster eForum. “Regulation can be a Trojan horse.”


Given Vodafone’s agreement to send out text messages at the government’s behest, the ONI’s Noman expects that the company–as well as other mobile networks and Internet service providers in the country–will be no less likely to cough up information on organizers of the current protests. “Giving up data helps authorities disrupt and punish; disrupt organization efforts, and punish the organizers,” Noman wrote in an email to me. “The data will help authorities know who is doing what, where, when, and how.”


I emailed Vodafone to ask whether they’ve handed over users’ data, and the company responded with the following statement: “Vodafone has already made a number of statements in relation to the situation in Egypt facing all of the mobile operators (Mobinil, Etisalat and Vodafone). Also, we do not comment on national security measures. We have no further comment to make.”


On Thursday night last week, Egypt’s government instituted a nationwide digital blackout by ordering its telecom firms to shut off their networks. Those Internet and mobile providers have since reconnected, though users have reported that communications remain spotty.


Noman isn’t alone in thinking that the return of Egypt’s networks also brings the possibility of tightened surveillance. The organizers of the anonymity network Tor also wrote a blog post Wednesday warning that Egyptians should take extra measures to protect themselves online, using “bridge relays,” proxy servers hide the use of anonymity tools, to disguise their browsing. “We’re glad that the Internet Service Providers in Egypt are announcing their routes to the world and have rejoined the Internet,” the blog post reads. “We are concerned because it is possible that traffic crossing the Egyptian border is being recorded and possibly saved for future use.”


Other precedents for repressive regimes using the Web to spy on its citizens are easy enough to find. In 2005, Chinese journalist Shi Tao was sentenced to 10 years in prison after Yahoo! handed over his emails to the government. And the ONI’s Noman points to Myanmar, where authorities monitored Flickr photographs to identify dissidents.
Overall, the Internet has been a powerful force for protesters in Egypt, and one that the authorities have tried and failed to control. But even as it helps dissidents organize their efforts and broadcasts the atrocities committed against them, those cellular and broadband connections may backfire.


When the dust settles in Egypt–or even before–whoever’s in power may turn to the country’s telecoms to try and find out who led Egypt’s revolution and silence those organizers in the name of social stability. And judging by Vodafone’s past behavior, those companies will be all too willing to help.

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...nd-propaganda/
Andy Greenberg
The Firewall


Security
Vodafone Says Egyptian Government Hijacked Its Networks To Send Propaganda

Feb. 3 2011 - 8:48 am
By ANDY GREENBERG

Text messages and the Internet may represent new tools for protesters fighting repressive regimes. But as Vodafone reminded the world on Thursday, those new media can just as easily function as state-of-the-art propaganda.

In a statement to press, Vodafone writes that “under the emergency powers provisions of the Telecoms Act, the Egyptian authorities can instruct the mobile networks of Mobinil, Etisalat and Vodafone to send messages to the people of Egypt. They have used this since the start of the protests.”


Blogger and Internet researcher Rebecca Mackinnon has posted a link to photos in her Twitter feed of what she says are those propaganda texts. Translated from Arabic by the Egyptian who posted the images, one reads “The Armed Forces cares for your safety and well being and will not resort to using force against this great nation.” Another is translated to read “the Armed Forces asks Egypt’s honest and loyal men to confront the traitors and criminals and protect our people and honor and our precious Egypt.”


“These messages are not scripted by any of the mobile network operators and we do not have the ability to respond to the authorities on their content,” Vodafone’s statement continues. It adds that Vodafone has told authorities that such use of its SMS networks is “unacceptable.” “We have made clear that all messages should be transparent and clearly attributable to the originator.”


Vodafone and other mobile networks in Egypt, as well as the country’s Internet service providers, had been criticized for bowing to the government’s demands that they shut off service in the midst of the country’s swelling anti-government protests. Vodafone’s chief executive Vittorio Colao responded at the World Economic Forum in Davos that the mobile network was required to comply with Egyptian law.


As late as early Thursday morning, Vodafone told Reuters that its networks were still at least partially shut down. Vodafone’s statement and the images of propaganda messages suggest that some service has returned. Those texts will be an important means of communication for the protestors who continue to rally in Cairo’s increasingly violent Tahrir Square. But they’ll clearly be an important tool for the government’s information campaign against those protests, too.

[quannum]

first comment gives a translation:

Translation: Let's make Mubarak hear our voices. We all, one hand, requested one thing, leave leave leave...Down Down Hosny Mubarak, Down Down Hosny Mubarak.. The people want to dismantle the regime....He is to go, we are not going... He is to go, we won't leave.... We all, one hand, ask one thing, leave leave. Brilliant!

[Edelweiss]

Belated info I promised regarding the Vodaphone Pro Egyptian Government spam.

First article as a link in the first paragraph "admitted to complying" and it links to the article that I posted following the first post.

Spoiler: show

So essentially it's a corporation collaborating with a government, and not showing any sort of spine against someone with whom they share a profitable relationship. Which is what we thought (nonsense law abuse be damned).

[Cantih]

Events of the day:
Army tries to begin lockdown of Tahrir, limiting people coming in, not letting supplies in, attempting to remove the anti-thug barricade the protesters built north of the museum.

The heads of the NDP political party (the president's party) have been replaced. Again, like the cabinet swap, it's just window dressing.

SMS seems to be back up.

[Zoolander]

I really liked this article by Slavoj Zizek that I saw on AJE's blog, titled "Why fear the Arab revolutionary spirit?" I've read a few of his books for philosophy classes, dude is one of the top philosophers alive (I'd say definitely the top far left philosopher).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tunisia-revolt

[Kuya]

Is he more intelligeble in book form?

[Mistress Stowastiq]

Muslim Brotherhood meeting with Egyptian Gov happened today and the text of the meeting was posted up on the MB web site;
I don't know if it is still being updated but if so, I will post the remainder when its done.

Update Note: Just realized there are two postings on the same page and they differ so I will be adjusting it soon. The information on the meeting is the "New" labeled posts to the posts from 20:44 to
20:39.

Update note: Really confused about what is what now so if anyone has an idea wtf this means please help lol. I followed the link because it was posted that the minutes for the meeting were on that page. I appears to be an event log for everything though.


spoilered for size

Spoiler: show

http://www.ikhwanweb.com/breakingNews.php

20 :44
MB called for the lifting of any restrictions on independent media and the ending of distortions to the people's revolution New

20 :43
MB called for the immediate investigation and trial of corrupt perpetrators responsible for the shooting of young people during protests New

20 :42
MB called for The formation of a committee comprised of members of the judiciary and selected political figures to examine any proposed constitutional amendments, within the first week of March. New

20 :42
MB called for Immediate Amendment to Articles (76), (77), (8 8 ) and any constitutional amendments required for peaceful transition of power. New

20 :41
MB called on VP Omar Suleiman: To end the state of emergency once situation stabilizes and before any upcoming elections New

20 :40
MB called on VP Omar Suleiman: To preserve the integrity of the demonstrators and to fully recognize their right to peaceful protest at any time

20 :39
MB called on VP Omar Suleiman:To Recognize the people's movement, which began on 25 January as a sincere and national movement

20 :23
Protestors chant angrily against army shots in the air

20 :18
MB: We the MB group have no specific demands the demands are that of all the people

20 :16
MB: The statements issued today by officials are not enough, however it is a start

20 :15
MB Media Spokesman Dr. Mohamed Morsi: Officials failed to respond to people’s core demands, however we are determined to continue the struggle

20 :11
MB Media Spokesman Dr. Essam El-Erian: We predict Mubarak may step down before the end of this week, not next September

20 :09
Protesters form human shields under army tanks to thwart attempts of progress towards Tahrir Sq

20 :07
Unconfirmed reports of gunfire on Tahrir Square, believed to be coming from direction of Egyptian Museum

19 :55
MENA: The new secretary-general of Egypt's ruling National Democratic Party calls on lifting the emergency laws imposed since 1981

18 :13
AFP: The MB and other opposition groups insist on demand that Mubarak leave

16 :30
Close to 2 million people rallying in Tahrir Sq. united and praying for the last fortnights's martyrs

16 :18
MB: All political factions have united in their demands and they have been presented to VP Omar Suleiman

16 :14
MB will re-read the situation every day, and if there was no sincerity, no honesty, we will take another decision

15 :27
MB Media Spokesman: We hope to take the country to stability, security and democracy, which can bring in the future prosperity, equality, justice and human dignity for all Egyptians.

15 :21
MB Chairman Dr. Mohamed Badie will hold press conference at 4:00 pm Cairo Time at the Group's parliamentary headquarters at 265 Gesr Suez St. Alf Mascan

12 :21
Protesters prepare for 'Martyrs' Sunday' surrounding the square's administrative complex and holding a Coptic mass

12 :05
MB calls for guarantees of release of recently detained activists during the protests

12 :03
MB calls for immediate investigations of all responsible in the country’s corruption holding all responsible accountable

12 :02
MB calls for freedom to form assemblies to express demands and opinions without oppression

12 :01
MB calls for equal opportunities to all political parties in the media and the halting of the State TV’s efforts to distort facts

11 :59
MB calls the formation of a national coalition transitional government

11 :56
MB calls for guarantees of transparent parliamentary elections under judicial supervision

11 :09
MB insists all political prisoners charged unjustly be released

11 :07
MB demands guarantees for peaceful protests

11 :05
MB demands immediate elimination of Emergency Law

11 :04
MB rejects outside intervention

11 :01
MB begins landmark talks with Vice President

11 :00
MB: Dialogue must include all political factions and the people's demands must be listened to for they have abandoned their fear factor

10 :54
MB Chairman Dr. Mohamed Badie confirms group will take part in dialogue

01 :06
ElBaradei: It would be 'major setback' if US were to support either Mubarak or Suleiman to lead transitional government

01 :00
AP: France suspends sale of arms and riot equipment to Egypt amid turmoil

00 :00
Crowds call for Million Man Stand Sunday in Tahrir Sq, in honour of fallen martyrs

23 :07
Distinguished journalist Hamdy Qandil: Ruling regime is appeasing people with change of cabinet, and NDP posts however people will not be fooled with cloned group

Details from AJazEnglish regarding Silicon Valley company [owned by Boeing (sp?)] named Narus providing Egyptian Gov with DPI [deep packet inspection] to spy on and catch Egyptian internet activists and cellphone tracking. Has video [dunno how to post ] .

US company 'helped' Egypt block web
Egypt's crackdown on web users allegedly aided by US company's product.

When Egypt's uprising began nearly two weeks ago, there was a near-total internet blackout.
But exactly how was access cut off?
An American advocacy group called Free Press says it has uncovered a link to a California-based technology company that allegedly sold the Egyptian government equipment allowing it to track online activity.
Al Jazeera's Rob Reynolds reports.
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/a...021400967.html

[Caiyuo]

re: video: unless BG supports video embed explicitly for a site like youtube and vimeo, embedded video doesn't work since it involves allowing HTML.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

re: video: unless BG supports video embed explicitly for a site like youtube and vimeo, embedded video doesn't work since it involves allowing HTML.

Thanks Caiyuo, I figured it was my Noscript or something.

[guartz]

Is he more intelligeble in book form?

No. No he isn't.

Also, I wonder why nobody is talking about the history that led up to this. Half expected Zizek's article to be a history lesson, but no. Checked Tariq Ali's article, nadda. Checked Noam, nadda.

You'd figure it would be a popular topic now, considering this is almost a play by play (football hurrhurr) replay from 60 years ago.

[guartz]

ah democracy now delivers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo9WF...layer_embedded

[Mistress Stowastiq]

This post is fresh from a Human Rights Watch worker on his detention by Egyptian authorities.

Spoiler: show

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/02/0...tian-captivity
My 36 Hours in Egyptian Captivity
by Dan Williams

Published in:
The Daily Beast
February 7, 2011

Cradling an assault rifle, the soldier in the sand-colored camouflage uniform stood on a chair, haranguing the group of men and women inside the Hisham Mubarak Law Center, a noted human rights organization in Cairo. "You want to go outside?" he asked our group. "They will kill you."

Last week, for all 28 of us-Egyptian human rights activists, three foreign journalists and two human rights researchers, including myself from Human Rights Watch and Said Haddadi from Amnesty International-the next 36 hours became a journey of fear, confusion and brutality.

It was also journey that provided some insight into one of the key question of Egypt's revolt: where does the army stand in the struggle between pro-democracy protestors and government forces?

The initial impression was that the military sided with the demonstrators yet provided order amid the chaos, which is why I was surprised to see the soldier on the chair, harassing the human rights workers about a "suspicious meeting" with foreigners bent on "ruining our country."

No question that the center had supported the anti-Mubarak demonstrations; for years, it had done pioneering work on torture and justice. Was this raid-smashing windows, trashing furniture, confiscating files and detaining everyone at the office-done because the military wanted the demonstrators to go home? Or was it the first step in crushing all perceived opponents of the regime? There was no doubt that the army was in charge of the raid. At one point, a major general showed up at the Hisham Mubarak center and other officers worked hand in glove with a uniformed policeman, plainclothes state security agents and assorted abusive henchmen.

Inside the Hisham Mubarak center office, we were ordered to sit on the floor with our hands above our heads. The plainclothes men and a uniformed policeman rampaged through the office, breaking windows and hurling insults at those on the floor. "You're from the Mossad," the policeman yelled at me, referring to Israel's intelligence agency. "You're a spy." I responded, "No, I'm with Human Rights Watch."

Soon, everyone had been bound with white plastic handcuffs, arms pulled behind their backs. We would remain like that for about ten hours. The agents confiscated our bags, which mostly held computers but also wallets, money, passports, and other documents.

We were led to a landing on the second floor landing, where we sat for several hours, subject to a chorus of insults from the agents but also strangers who came up from the street-one man slapped a young member of our group, another pushed someone to the ground. "Welcome to Egypt," said a youth to me, sardonically, and pointed the group of handcuffed people around me. "This is Egypt!" he said.

A Japanese photographer grabbed from a nearby street was added to our group. He too, was handcuffed. It wasn't clear why the military included him in our cluster; he had no connection with the Hisham Mubarak center.

Around midnight we were led away from the landing, with the cuffs still on. On the market street below, a crowd had gathered. This was especially frightening. From the mob, we could hear insults but also chants of "Egypt! Egypt!" Some made throat-slitting gestures; others pounded on the red minivans that would take us on our nighttime trip through Cairo.

At a place that someone identified as the Ministry of Interior complex, we got out from the minivan to be lined up for video and still photos. A military officer spoke about how he had fought against Israel and that our group was bringing Egypt down. It seemed to be a propaganda piece recorded for some future use.

When we finally arrived at what we later learned was Camp 75, a military headquarters in far northeast Cairo, we were marched inside, put in a walled outdoor courtyard and told to sit. The handcuffs came off and blindfolds were put on instead. I don't think the Egyptian captives were in the same area, and I didn't see the well-known human rights activist Ahmed Seif again.

Then the interrogations began. Some captives stood across a table from their questioners while others had to sit on the brick pavement. My questioning was in English and not too threatening-why was I visiting the Hisham Mubarak Center; what does Human Rights Watch do; why did I have Yemen and Tunisia visas in my passport were some of the questions.

My interrogation didn't last more than 15 minutes but I spent the next 24 hours, still blindfolded, sitting on the pavement. Bathroom breaks required permission, sleep was fitful, food was two servings of half-slice of tough Egyptian bread with water.

At about 6 a.m., I asked to go to the bathroom in the courtyard and, using an old Nokia I had hidden on me, called an Egyptian friend. (We hadn't been frisked before being taken into detention.) It was too early for her to answer, I knew, but at least the "missed call" message would suggest I was still alive. I was caught with the Nokia in hand, and guards removed its battery.

Back in the courtyard, I felt weak from too little water and too much anxiety. New Egyptian prisoners were brought in and I peeked beneath my blindfold for a glimpse: pious Salafi Muslims; men with sharply clipped beards of the type favored by the Muslim Brotherhood, the formally banned, but the largest political opposition; and other regular Egyptians, including women.

By evening, a couple of howls from somewhere inside the compound pierced the air. It was scary-especially since Mubarak's regime is known for torturing prisoners in detention. (Last week, Human Rights Watch published a 95-page report documenting how Egyptian security forces torture and abuse people in detention.)

Finally, close to 10 p.m., guards began to summon members of our group out, and I was marched out to rummage through the belongings confiscated at the Hisham Mubarak Center. As I was led away, the Japanese photographer called out for me to not forget him and please call his embassy.

My blindfold came off. Laid out in front of me was a jumble of items, my computer and a charger among them. I still had documents and money, which I had hidden on my person. But others weren't so lucky and lost money, phones, documents and whatever else they had left behind.

The journalists, my colleague Haddadi and I were driven by minivan to a random, nearby inn where we were unceremoniously dumped on the sidewalk. The guards gave us a half-hearted apology for our detention before driving off. The inn, however, refused to take us and a kind young army officer at a checkpoint agreed to take us to a hotel near the airport. Why he did this act of kindness remains a mystery. He could have let us spend the night on a curb, or harassed us, as had his colleagues. But maybe something else was going on under the epaulets. The next day, the Egyptian activists and the forlorn Japanese citizen were released.

The raid on the Hisham Mubarak Law Center exemplifies the persistence of abusive security practices under a military establishment, which claims it wants transition from the past.

But in this and other cases, now being documented by Human Rights Watch, the army was clearly in charge of arbitrary and sometimes violent arrests, even if the beatings and torture had been "outsourced" to other agencies or thugs.

For any "transition" to be meaningful, the security forces and other government institutions need to distance themselves from these practices and ensure civil liberties. They should announce that police abuses are at an end and freedoms of expression and association will be the law. They should cancel the 30-year old Emergency Law, which has long been used to curb the rights of Egyptians.

The new Egypt ought not to be just about putting new people in charge; it should be about the reform of an old and brutal system.

Daniel Williams is a senior researcher in the emergencies division of Human Rights Watch. He was previously a foreign correspondent for the Miami Herald, Los Angeles Times, Washington Post and Bloomberg News, and has covered the Middle East for the past decade.

Here is a report [video of interview at link] of the "rolling pin lady" in her apartment in Tahrir square I posted up about earlier last week. She was rescued and was on Today Show discussing her experience.

Spoiler: show

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/414553...-today_people/

Mom, 76, was ‘scared’ as she escaped riot-torn Cairo
Mary Thornberry wore native garb to leave building — but left rolling pin behind

By Seamus McGraw
TODAYshow.com contributor TODAYshow.com contributor
updated 2/7/2011 9:10:15 AM ET

Her red hair hidden beneath the traditional head scarf worn by Islamic women, her pants covered by a long skirt to blend in with the crowd outside her Cairo apartment, 76-year-old American Mary Thornberry crammed whatever she could — a few articles of clothing, some jewelry — into two small bags and joined her two rescuers as they led her through the shards of shattered glass and chunks of rock that littered her building, down six flights of dimly lit stairs.

On Friday night, after nearly 10 days holed up in her flat near Cairo’s Tahrir Square, the 76-year-old retired American nurse, who had been fending off rioters with a rolling pin and a knife, was freed during a lull in the fighting. “I had a gentleman who came to assist me,” Thornberry told TODAY’s Meredith Vieira Monday. “He also had gotten a friend to help him on the stairs to take my luggage down.”

It was, she said, a harrowing escape. “I have to say, I was a little on the scared side,” she admitted.

Trying to blend in

Friends who had reached Thornberry by telephone warned her to try to blend in with the protestors outside her apartment. “I was advised to wear my hijab,” she told Vieira, referring to the head scarf. “I had planned to just wear ... long pants, but a friend of mine said, ‘Don’t forget the long skirt also.’ ”

It wasn’t an impenetrable disguise, she knew. “If they looked closely at me, they would know that I am not Egyptian or Arabic. But just at a passing glance, this would be less apt to draw attention.”

Video: 76-year-old Texan departs from Cairo

She couldn’t carry much, she told Vieira, “a few clothes, some papers, some important papers, little pieces of jewelry.

“I did not have room to put the rolling pin in,” she added tartly, “so right now, all the belongings I have in the world are in my carry-on and what I call my quadruple-stuffed tote bag.”

Thornberry was whisked to Terminal 4 at the Cairo Airport, and from there she flew to Athens and then on to the United States. Her escape brought a happy ending to a saga that had played out for days on national television.

Related: U.S. mom, 76, rescued from Cairo apartment

Trapped in her home

The feisty Texan, who moved to Cairo 15 years ago to indulge her love of ancient Egyptian history, found herself a prisoner in her own apartment as rioting continued. Demonstrators demanding the ouster of Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak are clashing with pro-Mubarak demonstrators, and while Thornberry had a dangerous bird’s-eye view of history in the making, her worried son, Phillip Derrick, was working with NBC to try to get his mother to safety.

After several attempts to obtain help from the U.S. Embassy proved fruitless, Derrick contacted NBC Nightly News. As shown on TODAY Thursday, NBC’s Lester Holt attempted to reach Thornberry’s apartment when he was warned the unruly crowds were targeting Western journalists, and was forced to turn back.

Video: U.S. mom out of Cairo apartment, heading home

On Friday, Holt reported on TODAY that the embassy asked NBC News for Thornberry’s location. The previous day, U.S. State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley had been asked about her plight. “Where we can be helpful, we of course will dispatch direct assistance, or we will try to work with the host government where we can to help them,” he said.

Also on Friday on TODAY, Holt reported that he had spoken to Derrick, who told him his mother “is getting help from an unspecified source,” though not directly from the U.S. government. Thornberry told NBC of the unsettling racket she heard just yards from her window.

Thornberry had said on Thursday that she no longer had access to running water in her building, and had assembled an improvised arsenal to ward off rioters and looters. “I have a sharp knife,” she said. “I have my walking cane, and I have my rolling pin, so that’s my armory.”

Video: Retiree details Cairo apartment rescue

In an interview with TODAY Thursday, Thornberry told Meredith Vieira she was disappointed with government efforts to protect her and help her reach safety.

“I’m very displeased with the treatment I did not receive from the American Embassy,” she said in a tense telephone interview.

Her opinion of the State Department’s handling of her situation has changed slightly since her escape, she told Vieira on Monday: “When I finally managed to get to Terminal 4 at the Cairo Airport, the treatment was superlative. And it remained that way until I got to Greece. Actually I was met by the ambassador at the airport; he and the vice consul there took care of me and put me in a hotel ... so I have no unhappy feelings about my treatment there.”

But she does remain perplexed about why it took U.S. officials so long to get her the help she so desperately needed. “The consul general, so I’m told, attempted to call me by telephone, several times, and he could not find me,” Thornberry told Vieira pointedly. “Now people in God’s country and people in Cairo were able to get through on my land line, no problem,” she noted. So too were “news agencies from all over America.”

Despite her ordeal, Thornberry said, she plans to return to Cairo, and even plans to be buried there when the time comes. “I consider myself a Cairoan.”

Amazing powerful video, not sure if its posted here already but it made me cry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HGfF...ature=youtu.be

[Kuya]

I think i can safely conclude that the US is taking the Honduras route on this issue.

The official U.S. response to events unfolding in Egypt remains mixed. Over the weekend, the Obama administration distanced itself from U.S. “crisis envoy” to Egypt Frank Wisner after he issued a statement in support of President Hosni Mubarak. Revealing a possible conflict of interest, British journalist Robert Fisk recently reported Wisner works for the law firm Patton Boggs, which openly boasts that it advises "the Egyptian military, the Egyptian Economic Development Agency, and has handled arbitrations and litigation on the [Mubarak] government’s behalf in Europe and the U.S." We are joined by Trinity College Professor Vijay Prashad, who has written about Wisner’s history with the U.S. Department of State and his close relationship with Mubarak. [includes rush transcript]

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/2/7...bassador_frank

[Skidz]

Amazing powerful video, not sure if its posted here already but it made me cry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HGfF...ature=youtu.be

not gonna lie, got goosebumbs when the guy with the decent english said something along the lines of "doesn't matter what religion you are, we deserve our goddamn rights"

[guartz]

pretty epic video

[kuronosan]

Good video. Still makes me ashamed that nobody begged for a regime change in Iraq and we forced Saddam out (and had him hung, for pete's sake) yet we won't do shit to help Egypt. Chomsky's words kind of made me feel like our government doesn't actually give a shit about freedom. Just self-serving interests of the rich snobby assholes who want to keep control.

[Olo401]

Crowds today are reportedly the largest thus far.. AJE showed a side-by-side of Cairo and Alexandria and the size of the march in both places looked the same.

[Uzor]

Good video. Still makes me ashamed that nobody begged for a regime change in Iraq and we forced Saddam out (and had him hung, for pete's sake) yet we won't do shit to help Egypt. Chomsky's words kind of made me feel like our government doesn't actually give a shit about freedom. Just self-serving interests of the rich snobby assholes who want to keep control.

Egypt don't have enough oil to force a regime change.

No, but seriously, Iraq was a supposed counter-attack due to Saddam's threats and weapons, while Egypt is an "allied" (read: bribed) country. It wouldn't be in US interest to force a regime change from a regime that support them and Israel, to a regime that's uncertain and might not support them. Because if they get their freedom and democracy, they won't be as easy to bribe. Perhaps they would in the begining, but as they start building their country up, they may not be as supportive in the future and could become a potential threat to the US, especially if they choose to get their support from Saudi-Arabia or other Muslim countries. In Iraq they didn't really have anythign to lose, as they were enemies anyway. With Egypt, they have a lot to lose either way they act. If they suport Mubarak and the people win, they'll lose the trust of the Egypt people. If they support the Egypt people and Mubarak win, they'll lose the trust of Mubarak. So remaining neutral is really the best thing to do, and then act when they have more information regarding the situation and repair the bit of trust they lost then.

That's the way I understand it at least. It's similar to the "official" (but not real) stance Sweden has taken for the past 100 years in all major conflicts.

[noblemountain]

Egypt don't have enough oil to force a regime change.

No, but seriously, Iraq was a supposed counter-attack due to Saddam's threats and weapons, while Egypt is an "allied" (read: bribed) country. It wouldn't be in US interest to force a regime change from a regime that support them and Israel, to a regime that's uncertain and might not support them. Because if they get their freedom and democracy, they won't be as easy to bribe. Perhaps they would in the begining, but as they start building their country up, they may not be as supportive in the future and could become a potential threat to the US, especially if they choose to get their support from Saudi-Arabia or other Muslim countries. In Iraq they didn't really have anythign to lose, as they were enemies anyway. With Egypt, they have a lot to lose either way they act. If they suport Mubarak and the people win, they'll lose the trust of the Egypt people. If they support the Egypt people and Mubarak win, they'll lose the trust of Mubarak. So remaining neutral is really the best thing to do, and then act when they have more information regarding the situation and repair the bit of trust they lost then.

That's the way I understand it at least. It's similar to the "official" (but not real) stance Sweden has taken for the past 100 years in all major conflicts.

Let's also be careful what we compare this too. Mubarak is a piece of shit and needs to step down...but comparing him to Sadaam is a little bit of a stretch. Sadaam killed over 200,000 kurds...not to mention all the people that he had thrown in prison, the girls he gave to his sons to rape, and the people he killed who disagreed with him. He was one of the biggest pieces of shit that's walked this planet in the last 4 decades, we all don't like to talk about this because we went about getting him the wrong way, but he still needed to die.

[isladar]

So far this thread has been pretty great about avoiding armchair Middle East scholars and (mostly) avoiding armchair American foreign policy deciders. There's enough shit that's actually happening now that I'd like to put off the inevitable descent into GD-caliber shittiness for as long as possible.