Middle East Revolutions: Current Bahrain protests getting violent

**Ragnus** · 2011-02-09 08:53

Originally Posted by Yabby

WTF is a community newsletter

Crappy little newspaper which only covers the weekly happenings of the town you live in.

**Yabby** · 2011-02-09 09:19

I was just joking lol

**Olo401** · 2011-02-09 09:27

Originally Posted by Ragnus

Read: 52% of Americans don't stay informed / watch the news / care about it if they accidentally turn on the news / don't read anything but the local community newsletter.

And about 50% of those get their news from Fox, who've been pushing the garbage that the demonstrations are mostly muslim extremists.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-09 09:30

Kind of concerned about the "Negotiation or coup" warning from VP. People are translating it to mean possible martial law but I don't think that will work. I honestly think it will just reinforce their desire to refuse to back down at least I hope so.

On lighter subjects I found this picture from a tweet,

RT @steven_metz I wanted to help Glenn Beck out so I thought I'd post this photo I took at Babylon. http://bit.ly/g88XiK

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...21/Babylon.jpg

**Uzor** · 2011-02-09 09:38

Originally Posted by Kuya

Not to mention wrong on the facts.

Why would a people who purposely liberated themselves from an autocratic government run and ally with another autocratic government.

Because a lot of the Egyptians are not actually supportive of America, a lack of trust that's likely to get strengthened when USA don't help them out by stopping their support of Mubarak.

Why would a democratically elected egyptian government alying with saudi arabia be a threat to the US in any way when saudi arabia is precisely another autocratic regime that the USG cynically utilizes in the region much like the current one in Egypt

By a threat I don't mean an actuall threat, I mean a threat to the US interests, such as keeping peace with Israel. I know 3 out of the 5 possible new presidents said they wish to keep the peace with Israel, but that's not to say it will last. Not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood, which has the support of estimated 20-30% of the people, wish the country to be governed by Sharia laws. While the Muslim Brotherhood is not a terrorist organization and want peace, a lot of extremists originally stems from the Muslim Brotherhood, and it's not at all impossible that they would seek funding from other Muslim countries. Saudi-arabia for example have an economic boycott of Israel, and if Egypt would choose to receive funding from Saudi-Arabia instead, it isn't an impossibility that they would break their alliance with Israel. If, for example, the Muslim Brotherhood wins the election, there's a possibility the US stop their $1,5 billion annual funding, in which case Egypt has to get their money from somewhere, unless they want to delve in to chaos once again. If they, say, choose to get their dunding from Saudi Arabia instead, it isn't at all impossible that they, like the rest of the Muslim world, will be against Israel. So, as I said, whichever side the US choose, will result in them losing trust with the opposing side. If they remain neutral - like they are now - they have lost some of the trust on both sides, but that trust will be easier to regain by supporting the side that win, in order to try and keep the peace treaty with Israel. That is, after all, one of the main reasons USG funds Egypt after all, no?

**isladar** · 2011-02-09 09:46

Remember when I said this?

Originally Posted by isladar

So far this thread has been pretty great about avoiding armchair Middle East scholars and (mostly) avoiding armchair American foreign policy deciders. There's enough shit that's actually happening now that I'd like to put off the inevitable descent into GD-caliber shittiness for as long as possible.

There is enough going on hour-by-hour that speculating is pure fucking bullshit. Knock it off for now.

**Kuya** · 2011-02-09 10:03

There is something about international politics that gives people diarrhea of the mouth. In this case, of the fingers.

Uzor

What you just said is completely worthless in every way. At no point in time did you substantiate anything in your post solely composed of maybes and speculations. Why don't you go play Cassandra somewhere else, kid.

**Cadsuane** · 2011-02-09 10:13

Originally Posted by Uzor

Because a lot of the Egyptians are not actually supportive of America, a lack of trust that's likely to get strengthened when USA don't help them out by stopping their support of Mubarak.

By a threat I don't mean an actuall threat, I mean a threat to the US interests, such as keeping peace with Israel. I know 3 out of the 5 possible new presidents said they wish to keep the peace with Israel, but that's not to say it will last. Not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood, which has the support of estimated 20-30% of the people, wish the country to be governed by Sharia laws. While the Muslim Brotherhood is not a terrorist organization and want peace, a lot of extremists originally stems from the Muslim Brotherhood, and it's not at all impossible that they would seek funding from other Muslim countries. Saudi-arabia for example have an economic boycott of Israel, and if Egypt would choose to receive funding from Saudi-Arabia instead, it isn't an impossibility that they would break their alliance with Israel. If, for example, the Muslim Brotherhood wins the election, there's a possibility the US stop their $1,5 billion annual funding, in which case Egypt has to get their money from somewhere, unless they want to delve in to chaos once again. If they, say, choose to get their dunding from Saudi Arabia instead, it isn't at all impossible that they, like the rest of the Muslim world, will be against Israel. So, as I said, whichever side the US choose, will result in them losing trust with the opposing side. If they remain neutral - like they are now - they have lost some of the trust on both sides, but that trust will be easier to regain by supporting the side that win, in order to try and keep the peace treaty with Israel. That is, after all, one of the main reasons USG funds Egypt after all, no?

The Egyptian muslim brotherhood has become religiously moderate and politically liberal. For them to advocate sharia now would take a tremendous about-face. The rest of your post is too stupid a yarn being pulled out of your ass to address.

**isladar** · 2011-02-09 10:20

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...546831171.html

Egyptian labour unions have gone on a nationwide strike, adding momentum to pro-democracy demonstrations in Cairo and other cities.

Al Jazeera correspondents, reporting from Egypt, said around 20,000 factory workers stayed away from work on Wednesday.

"It is a significant gain for the pro-democracy supporters" if the unions get involved in demonstrations, Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel-Hamid reported from Cairo.

The strike action came as public rallies calling for Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak to immediately hand over power entered their 16th day.

Article continues with some other information. Would be interested to find out if those in the labour unions had previously participated in the protests as individuals, and are now organizing, or if this is entirely separate.

**BardonGaruda** · 2011-02-09 10:35

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12405247

Egypt protests: Parliament rally as US seeks progress

Anti-government protesters in Egypt are continuing their occupation of Cairo's Tahrir Square for a 16th day and have blocked the entrance to parliament.

There are reports of strikes and industrial unrest around the country.

Egyptian Vice-President Omar Suleiman has warned of the risk of a coup d'etat if constitutional reform efforts fail.

The US has called on the Egyptian government to lift its 30-year-old state of emergency and to stop harassing journalists and activists.

Hundreds of protesters are now blocking the entrance to the Egyptian parliament, several blocks away from Tahrir Square.

Government troops are protecting the building, and the protest is taking place peacefully.

At least one person has been killed in a clash between protesters and police in New Valley province, about 300 miles (500km) south of Cairo.

Angry reaction

At the Suez Canal, the vital state-owned trade link between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea, about 6,000 workers have gone on strike.

The BBC's Jon Leyne, in Cairo, says there are reports of industrial unrest across the country.

On Tuesday night, Mr Suleiman said the crisis must end, adding: "We don't want to deal with Egyptian society with police tools."

However, he warned that if dialogue with the protesters failed, the alternative was "that a coup happens, which would mean uncalculated and hasty steps, including lots of irrationalities".

Opposition groups reacted angrily to his remarks. They fear the government is stalling for time and will fail to enact meaningful changes.

Abdul-Rahman Samir, a spokesman for a coalition of youth protest groups, accused Mr Suleiman of creating a "disastrous scenario", according to the Associated Press news agency.

"He is threatening to impose martial law, which means everybody in the square will be smashed," AP quoted Mr Samir as saying. "But what would he do with the rest of 70 million Egyptians who will follow us afterward?"

US Vice-President Joe Biden told Mr Suleiman in a phone call that the transition should produce "immediate, irreversible progress that responds to the aspirations of the Egyptian people".

Earlier, the White House described as "particularly unhelpful" comments by Mr Suleiman that the country was not ready for democracy.

The government has announced plans for a peaceful transition, with President Hosni Mubarak to stay in office until elections in September.

The protesters are continuing to call for Mr Mubarak to resign immediately.

Mr Biden has been phoning his Egyptian opposite number on an almost daily basis and his latest call is the toughest yet, says BBC North America editor Mark Mardell.

He adds that so far, the administration's repeated suggestions over the last week have been met largely by grudging commitments from the Egyptian authorities and little action.

The unrest over the last two weeks has seen fierce clashes with police, and pitched battles between protesters and Mubarak supporters.

Human Rights Watch (HRW) researchers say they have confirmed the deaths of 297 people since 28 January, based on a count from eight hospitals in the cities of Cairo, Alexandria and Suez. No comprehensive death toll has been given by the Egyptian government.

Interesting that they mention one of the strikes is at the Suez canal.

Not sure what's up with Sky's coverage today. They've generally been pretty good with their coverage. But today it's just domestic UK stories. I know they're a Murdoch company but their coverage is never a skewed as Fox.

**isladar** · 2011-02-09 10:42

The economic repercussions are going to have huge leverage. Suez is a big deal, to make a massive understatement.

**Ragnus** · 2011-02-09 11:06

I agree that this could be the major turning point in the protests. I can only hope that it doesn't end in tragedy. If the government turns violent then I'm going to be more than burned up if the bastion of democratic values and self appointed world police we call a country doesn't step in.

**Dantrag** · 2011-02-09 11:15

Originally Posted by isladar

The economic repercussions are going to have huge leverage. Suez is a big deal, to make a massive understatement.

From what I heard on NPR the other day, the Suez would be more of a symbolic thing than having any significant effects.

**isladar** · 2011-02-09 11:16

The VP Suleiman has evidently ramped up his "bad cop" routine, telling ABC News that Egypt doesn't have the 'culture of democracy' necessary to give the protesters what they want, though tellingly that they 'cannot bear this for a long time' and that the protests must end soon. Paraphrased.

edit:

Originally Posted by Dantrag

From what I heard on NPR the other day, the Suez would be more of a symbolic thing than having any superficial effects.

It is the single point of access-by-water between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea, so unless you want your cargo ship going all the way around Africa, I wouldn't characterize it as superficial.

**BardonGaruda** · 2011-02-09 11:16

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12405969

Egypt protesters and journalists come under police fire

An end to restrictive emergency laws and routine abuse by state security services were among the main demands of Egypt's first "day of rage" on 25 January.

However, since then many protesters have been detained without charge and become victims of police brutality, according to human rights groups.

Activists estimate that more than 300 people have been killed in the popular uprising and several thousand have been injured.

Funerals and memorial services have been taking place on a daily basis.

"I would love my friend, Ahmed Bassiouni, to be remembered as a brave, honest, crazy, beloved guy," says Shady Noshokaty.

"He was a brilliant musician, a contemporary artist, a teacher and a father to two kids."

The two men, both young university art professors, joined the protest after Friday prayers on 28 January but became separated.

Four days later, the body of Mr Bassiouni was found in a hospital with bullet wounds to his neck.

"I'll be honest, in the beginning I wasn't sure the demonstration would do anything, but now it's really become my cause," says Mr Noshokaty.

'Everyone is a target'

Friends of the dead man have hung up a huge picture of him outside one of the boarded-up fast-food outlets at the edge of Tahrir Square.

Signs showing others killed in the demonstrations have appeared on nearby railings, and websites have been set up to commemorate them. Most were killed at the height of violent clashes with police a week and a half ago.

After touring Cairo's hospitals, Heba Morayef of Human Rights Watch concluded: "A great number of deaths were caused by live gunshot on Friday 28 January, others were from rubber bullets and tear gas fired at too close a range.

"There were also some cases of people shot at extremely close range at one police station on the Friday night. Another category was deaths from sniper-shots, mostly outside the interior ministry on Saturday 29 January."

At least one journalist, Ahmed Mahmoud, who worked for a state-owned publication, has been killed during the demonstrations.

He was shot in the eye by a police officer on 29 January while taking photographs of the protests on his mobile phone from the balcony of his office.

"Now the situation has become very bad for journalists in Egypt," observes the dead man's colleague, Mohamed Basiouni, who wrote his obituary in the al-Ahram newspaper.

"Everyone finds himself a target."

'Dangerous work'

Many Egyptian and foreign media workers have reported being assaulted by thugs with the help of police during demonstrations.

Protesters are keen to remember those who have died for the cause The military and state security continue to arrest journalists, activists and protesters. Many are held for less than 24 hours, but some have stayed in custody for up to two days.

"While most people are released after a short time, we do have some reports of people being beaten," says Gamal Eid of the Arab Network for Human Rights.

He says he is investigating the disappearance of several doctors, working at field clinics in Tahrir Square and the blogger, Kareem Amer, who was released in November after being imprisoned for three years.

The government has promised demonstrators it will lift the emergency law, in place since 1981, which gives wide powers to security services.

Critics have long complained that the law has created a culture of impunity and leads to systematic abuses of human rights in the name of national security.

The law is supposed to be restricted to terrorism and drugs cases. However, the experience of protest organiser Wael Ghonim, who described being dragged to a car by four men on 28 January, threatened and kept blindfolded during 12 days of detention, suggests it is still used against political dissidents.

Few young protesters in central Cairo believe they are safe from the security services despite a reported order from the president that "they should not be detained, harassed or denied their freedom of expression".

At the Hisham Mubarak Law Centre, which specialises in human rights cases - from police torture to advice for political activists - a clear-up is still going on after the offices were raided on 3 February.

Security forces temporarily detained more than 30 people after the raid, including lawyers, human rights campaigners and members of the April 6 Youth Movement. The hard drives of computers and laptops were seized.

Malik Adli, a lawyer from the centre who was picked up before his colleagues, says it is "dangerous work".

"They accuse us of being spies or being disloyal to our country."

But he says there is still determination to carry on.

"No-one can stop us. The police and army have committed many crimes against Egyptian citizens in the past few days. Now we have a lot of work."

This article is pretty good as, like the video posted earlier in the thread, it's puts more of a human face on the fact that at least 300 people have been killed so far.

Also interesting that the doctors who've been working at the improvised clinic in Tahrir Square have been going missing.

This other link isn't related to Egypt, Palestinian chief negotiator, but a good watch if you're interested in the middle eastern region. Rare to see a politian with real integrity in any part of the world these days.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...lk/9391525.stm

**Dantrag** · 2011-02-09 11:30

Originally Posted by isladar

It is the single point of access-by-water between the Mediterranean and the Red Sea, so unless you want your cargo ship going all the way around Africa, I wouldn't characterize it as superficial.

I do not claim to know one way or another, just stating what I heard on the radio on the way to work.

**Olo401** · 2011-02-09 11:42

Originally Posted by isladar

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/02/20112913546831171.html
Article continues with some other information. Would be interested to find out if those in the labor unions had previously participated in the protests as individuals, and are now organizing, or if this is entirely separate.

I can't wait for Fux Gnus to start pointing to the labor unions getting involved as the latest indication that the protestors are being run by filthy commie-socialist-nazi-muslim terrorists.

**BardonGaruda** · 2011-02-09 11:58

Some pics from the BBC website:

Spoiler: show

**isladar** · 2011-02-09 12:14

re: pictures, some of the most interesting stuff I've read is about the mini-society that's grown out of Tahrir square; people distribute food for free or very inexpensively, organized pharmacies / doctors' stations as the one above that sprung up out of need, and the shelter/tent system that's becoming more and more permanent. I would fucking kill for an anthropology department to airlift me in there, since this is pretty much an organic, sustained occurrence, that's reacting fluidly to outside pressure in providing routine and services to those participating. Pretty fucking incredible.

**Indalecia** · 2011-02-09 12:16

Originally Posted by Dantrag

I do not claim to know one way or another, just stating what I heard on the radio on the way to work.

In short, if its shut down completely, billions are lost, several hundreds of millions per day most likely.

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