Middle East Revolutions: Current Bahrain protests getting violent

**sruon** · 2011-02-21 11:47

Kadhafi fled to Venezuela? or so I hear. Any confirmation?

**Kuya** · 2011-02-21 11:50

This post by Juan Cole makes it sound like the Lybian government is finished. Here are some parts:

In a highly significant development, the leadership of the large and powerful Wafala tribe announced that it was now siding with the opposition against Qaddafi. About a million Libyans belong to this extended kinship group. Since cultivating tribal loyalties was one of the ways Qaddafi had remained in power, this major tribal defection underlines his loss of authority. It was further underlined when Arab Warfala leaders managed to convince their Berber counterparts in the southern Tuareg tribe, who are 500,000 strong, to join in opposing Qaddafi.

Tens of thousands of young people had come out to rally in Benghazi on Sunday. The regime initially tried to bully and intimidate the crowds, using live fire against them and in some instances even firing rocket propelled grenades at them. Dozens were killed. The state security forces are accused of deploying African and other expatriate laborers against the Libyan crowds, angering them on nationalist grounds. At length, some military units went over to the crowd, while one stayed loyal. The two engaged in firefights with one another. Lt. Gen. Sulaiman Mahmoud, formerly commander of the eastern region (historic Cyrenaica) eventually went over to the protesters.

http://www.juancole.com/2011/02/revo...-in-libya.html

**Correction** · 2011-02-21 12:25

Well that explains why today cost me an extra 7 bucks over last week's gasoline fill up. C'mon Algeria, make it an even 10.

**Faris** · 2011-02-21 12:43

Originally Posted by clobetasol

i hope after Libya falls, syria and saudi arabia fall shortly after it.

whoa there; i dont agree with saudi arabia falling...fall in the hands of who? we still need to find out if this was a good step towards the region.

yes, people overthrew the current regime, but whats coming is still unknown. and personally, in this i would side with the people who are saying: this is a very tough period for the muslims, and how this is being taken forward is not an appropriate solution. more problems will occur.
yes definitely, those tyrant regimes are wrong, and they are the cause of all this revolt...but still this is not a solution.
thats just my opinion.

**Kuya** · 2011-02-21 12:58

What is the solution, in your opinion?

**isladar** · 2011-02-21 13:00

Kuya, do you want to made a discussions thread for that?

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 13:03

Two senior colonels from the Libyan airforce flew their jets into neighboring land of Malta because of its proximity of an hr away.
They did this because they knew it would be violating airspace and they would be stopped.
When they were questioned by Malta authorities they said that they were asked to bombard their own people in Benghazi so they defected, refusing to do it. Libyans who live in Malta were cheering at the airport when they heard this. So think about all the jetfighters who did NOT defect, those are currently firing on people?

I might be misspelling Malta. I wrote this from hearing the report so it is phonetic right now lol.
I will post up in a sec when I get text of this.
edit:
screenshot from my desktop:
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a...fect2-Copy.png

Ok AJE liveblog posted up about the story:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-ea...ive-blog-libya

February 21
7:45pm: The defected pilots reportedly tell Maltese officials they were based in Tripoli and ordered to attack protesters on the ground in Benghazi. After seeing their fellow pilots begin the airstrikes, they diverted course toward Malta. If substantiated, this would appear to confirm the use of airstrikes against civilian protesters in cities around the country.

7:39pm: Karl Stagno-Novarra, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Malta, reports the pilots of the jet fighters that landed there are "senior colonels", who were ordered to bomb protesters. They refused and have defected to Malta, he said.

7:19pm: The EU Council of Foreign Ministers issues the following statement:

The Council condemns the ongoing repression against demonstrators in Libya and deplores the violence and death of civilians. The Council calls for an immediate end to the use of force against protesters and for all parties to show restraint. Freedom of expression and the right to assemble peacefully are human rights and fundamental freedoms of every human being which must be respected and protected.

**Kuya** · 2011-02-21 13:03

Originally Posted by isladar

Kuya, do you want to made a discussions thread for that?

Making an entire thread just so he can answer a single question?

edit: i could make a thread in spam and he can answer it there

**Faris** · 2011-02-21 13:11

no need, i dont have a solution.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 13:30

I really wish there was something, some way of helping people there. They had some one on the phone on Al Jazeera describing genocide, his village one of the ones being fired on by jets from the Libyan airforce.

**Kuya** · 2011-02-21 13:32

Really? Jets? Really?

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 13:41

Originally Posted by Kuya

Really? Jets? Really?

Yes and also helicopters carrying Italian citizens. These are actual fighter jets firing on people and the ones who did not, 2 Colonels defected to Malta 1 hour away and asked for political assylum saying that they were ordered to shoot the protesters and they refused.. They are talking about it on AL Jazeera now. They belong to an airbase outside of Tripoli. They were ordered to fire on Benghazi protesters and at 500 feet from the ground they decided to defect and disobey orders.

Also two civilian helicopters flew in to Malta, containing EU nationals.

http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/a...erpic-Copy.jpg

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-ea...ive-blog-libya
7:45pm: The defected pilots reportedly tell Maltese officials they were based in Tripoli and ordered to attack protesters on the ground in Benghazi. After seeing their fellow pilots begin the airstrikes, they diverted course toward Malta. If substantiated, this would appear to confirm the use of airstrikes against civilian protesters in cities around the country.

7:39pm: Karl Stagno-Novarra, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Malta, reports the pilots of the jet fighters that landed there are "senior colonels", who were ordered to bomb protesters. They refused and have defected to Malta, he said.

Twitter:
Reports: Aircraft that landed in Malta from #Libya were 2 Mirage F1 jets accompanying 2 helicopters carrying (maybe) 7 French citizens?

Reports of the defecting Airforce pilots are confirmed now.

There are still more who did not defect.
Libyan activist on AL Jazeera is asking the UN "blue hats" to help protect the people.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...526?source=rss
Libyan UN diplomats say Gadhafi should step down
The Associated Press
Posted: 02/21/2011 11:18:04 AM MST
Updated: 02/21/2011 11:18:05 AM MST

UNITED NATIONS—Libya's ambassadors at the United Nations are calling for leader Moammar Gadhafi to step down as the country's ruler.

Deputy Ambassador Ibrahim Dabbashi said Monday that if Gadhafi does not reliqniquish power, "the Libyan people will get rid of him."

Dabbashi urged the international community to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent mercenaries, weapons and other supplies from reaching Gadhafi and his security forces.

Dabbashi also said he was not resigning.

The diplomat says the Libyan delegation is also urging the International Criminal Court to investigate possible crimes against humanity committed against the Libyan people during the current protests.

Dabbashi urged the international community to impose a no-fly zone over Libya to prevent mercenaries, weapons and other supplies from reaching Gaddafi and his security forces. (AP)

**Obev** · 2011-02-21 14:40

Originally Posted by Mistress Stowastiq

badass UN ambassador

Just saw that guy on the BBC. Colour me dumbstruck: barely eighteen months ago Qadaffi was using the UN as his own personal soapbox. Now his country's representatives are saying he should go, and get indicted for crimes against humanity? I'm impressed. The cracks are really showing in Libya.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 15:25

Originally Posted by Obev

Just saw that guy on the BBC. Colour me dumbstruck: barely eighteen months ago Qadaffi was using the UN as his own personal soapbox. Now his country's representatives are saying he should go, and get indicted for crimes against humanity? I'm impressed. The cracks are really showing in Libya.

The video of him meeting with Italian and British officials and the shaking hands & smiling, welcoming him is playing on AJE.
Also apparently the Arab League is rejecting him now and will meet tomorrow on what to do about him. I am uncertain what kinds of procedures they can/will act upon or how much power they have but it sounds signifigant from the reports. I need to go do some reading to find out about The Arab League.

Earlier in this thread during the Egyptian uprising, I was wondering what it took to get the UN to actually physically interfere when dictators attack their own citizens. This is in the realm of genocide according to reports of bodies in the streets and people being shot by snipers if they try to collect them. I don't know exactly how much damage an F1 jet can do but it cannot be good.

Al Jazeera Blog post with critical analysis:
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-ea...-mad-dog-libya

The European Union buys 79 per cent of Libya's oil. American companies and expats have practically taken over parts of Libya in recent years as the "free world" began to flirt with Gaddafi in the most scandalous of relationships. How can Europe put pressure on the Libyan government (freezing personal assets of Gaddafi for example) to immediately stop the butchering of innocent civilians when 10 per cent of Europe's oil originates in Libya?

***Shinzon*** · 2011-02-21 15:28

Well I imagine the UN will attempt to prevent another Rwanda situation but the reason I made the comment I made before is, the US is always acting alone as the military arm of the UN. If other countries want to help make a change they've gotta commit the military resources.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 15:40

Originally Posted by Zealot

People welcomed a military takeover of the government in Egypt because the popular sentiment was that they could trust the army to stand by the citizenry and make their demands a reality. It doesn't seem like that's going to be the case in Libya, which makes me wonder what will happen if Khadafi falls.

Especially since 'part' of the army is acting on orders to fire on citizens. I am not sure if only two of the Libyan Airforce Colonels defected their men will follow.

Twitter:

Spoiler: show

This is heartbreaking, Letter To The World, Libyan Youth Movement web page with letters from people in Libya:
http://feb17.info/media/letter-to-th...ntact-245-est/

**Gryffes** · 2011-02-21 17:00

Al Jazeera reporting that Gadaffi will make a TV address tonight, hopefully it goes as well as Mubaraks.

**Kuya** · 2011-02-21 17:04

I'm only seeing El Pais report on planes being used to bomb protestors in Lybia, but i see nothing specific on BBC or AJE.

**Gryffes** · 2011-02-21 17:10

Info was from Al Jezeera live blog:

11:43pm: Al Arabiya reports Gaddafi will be delivering a TV address soon. If he does, you can bet we'll be covering it on Al Jazeera English. Watch our rolling coverage by clicking here.

**Mistress Stowastiq** · 2011-02-21 17:11

I am hearing about the address from Gaddafi too.

PJCrowley Philip J. Crowley
#SecClinton: We join the international community in strongly condemning the violence in #Libya. Time to stop this unacceptable bloodshed.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?cre...d=276255930954
Situation in Libya- Secretary of State Clinton (2/21/2011)
by Department of State - Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor on Monday, February 21, 2011 at 2:53pm

Situation in Libya

Hillary Rodham Clinton
Secretary of State
Washington, DC
February 21, 2011

The world is watching the situation in Libya with alarm. We join the international community in strongly condemning the violence in Libya. Our thoughts and prayers are with those whose lives have been lost, and with their loved ones. The government of Libya has a responsibility to respect the universal rights of the people, including the right to free expression and assembly. Now is the time to stop this unacceptable bloodshed. We are working urgently with friends and partners around the world to convey this message to the Libyan government.

Originally shared online at: http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/02/156836.htm

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