Random Question Thread XIX: Welcome to Flavor Country

[Shin Volcano]

Well I have never used spellcast before but when servers go back up I plan to use it in conjunction with a this set and a -BPdelay/bloodboon set to get the most out of it.

But looking at the whole set bonus does it need to be on when the BP lands to get the bonus or when you use BP:Rage?

Needs to be on of course, but trust me, the possible damage boost is well worth every peice, when your bps are doing 8-10k from a proc you won't look back, besides, each peice (aside hands) gives you some sort of boost anyway, but even still use the hands, because as he said, the proc is far more important then anything else you can put int hat slot, af2+1 hands are good for accuracy (not needed) and siphon.

[Atoreis]

Ok so I spent like 5h on making good calc for avg WS in excel. I tried to calc Vsmite with 90 Veret on 90 lvl mob and I got avg 4800 which is pretty high and id where I could make mistake but maybe im wrong and its good? I will post some data from it:

WSC: 125
Base: 216
Mob def: 393
Crit dmg bonus: 39%
Crit rate: 83.3%
Attack: 711
cRatio: 1.8
pDIF: 2.69
fTP: 5.9625

Is it possible that 4800 is right or I fucked something?

[Jex]

Lets see... let me find my copy... where to begin... (long post ahead)

They recommend war/pld, war/whm, a section on "why warriors love enmity" and another on "why should I have to die? Next its mnk/drk, mnk/rdm. After that its Whm, which gets Dia3 at lvl 69, using whm/brd. For Blm there's a section on "what spells to cast", and to use blm/smn. Rdm gets Dia3 at 61, Cure5 at 73, and doesn't get Fire/Blizzard/Thunder3 at all, suggest rdm/smn, and rdm/war. Thf is actually not as bad, except for the questionable thf/mnk, and thf/rng. Now for Pld, they suggest pld/whm, and pld/drk. For Drk job combos are actually "normal", but there is a section on "spending time as a blm". For Bst its bst/pld and bst/brd, and a section on "why bst's solo". Nothing much list for Rng besides rng/thf and the first sentence explaining it is "Rangers in theory make very good pullers, but that is often left to the wayside". Brd's turn, section on "do i need an instrument?" and using brd/thf. Now for Smn, no bp's listed for over lvl 50, and to use smn/blm, and smn/brd. Sam has a section of "because of low Agi, avoid monsters that cause damage too quickly". Nin gets jubaku Ni at lvl 55, and to use nin/rdm, and nin/sam and that nin is a "hard sell to use as a sj". Drg doesn't have much either but under drg/whm there's "Dragoons aren't as effective as black mages, but they have enough spirit to make passable white mages". Not to mention all the ridiculous macros they have/had for each job... and thats just 60 pages out of a 381 page book.

oh wow thanks that was such a good laugh.

[Yugl]

Ok so I spent like 5h on making good calc for avg WS in excel. I tried to calc Vsmite with 90 Veret on 90 lvl mob and I got avg 4800 which is pretty high and id where I could make mistake but maybe im wrong and its good? I will post some data from it:

WSC: 125
Base: 216
Mob def: 393
Crit dmg bonus: 39%
Crit rate: 83.3%
Attack: 711
cRatio: 1.8
pDIF: 2.69
fTP: 5.9625

Is it possible that 4800 is right or I fucked something?

Are you including the 95% ACC multiplication? If I just multiply your (Base)*(fTP)*(pDIF)*(Crit DMG Bonus), I do get 4,815.XXX dmg.

[Masamune]

Treasure Hunter works like a status effect on the enemy.

THF A strikes the mob and immediately inflicts it with TH3 (from traits alone), gets two more procs on the mob leading to TH4 and then TH5.

THF B joins in and strikes the mob, and initially does not change the current TH situation because the TH5 from THF A overrides the TH4 from THF B.

THF B then gets another proc, which sticks +1 onto the mob, bringing it to TH6.

Treasure Hunter from traits/gear mostly serve as a starting point for THFs... the benefit to TH gear is that a THF with Thief's Knife, Assassin's Armlets and Raider's +2 feet starts out at TH6. It would takes a THF with no TH gear three procs to catch up to that THF, while the same THF would achieve TH9 with the same effort.

Edit to add things that may need testing:

- If a TH6 THF gets a proc leading to TH7, then disengages and is replaced with a TH3 THF, would the TH3 THF immediately be able to proc TH8 (I think yes, since Treasure Hunter now seems to work like Dancer steps)?

- If a THF places treasure hunter on an enemy and dies, does the TH effect wear off? Seems illogical it would - but in my experiences with Chloris (small sample size) - we only got one bud if the THF died and didn't attack Chloris again.

- Since treasure hunter now seems to work like Dancer steps, can the effect wear off with time? (Seems unlikely.)

From a lot of personal exp with myself or one of LS members as THF, i can confirm all you said in your post plus :

- If a TH6 THF gets a proc leading to TH7, then disengages and is replaced with a TH3 THF : THFb will get TH8 message, tough will be rare...

- If a THF places treasure hunter on an enemy and dies, does the TH effect wear off? Yes, definitely. Seen way too much HUGE "slotrate" differences with or w/o TH, thf dead/zoned belonging definitely to 2nd category (particularly noticable with yellow proc'd NMs). The fact that next TH message AFTER dead/zoning is +1 the previous one doesnot demonstrate ANYTHING: get a nm with TH9 then die, most of the time you'll be crying "WTF th broken???!"...
Also, simply "hitting" NM after THF dead/zoned seems to not be enough, i'm not sure cuze didnot get much samples, but most of the time had to "reapply" until get next TH tier...
In other words: THFs gotta keep SAing/TAing until mob dies AND healers/leaders gotta stop considering THF as "worthless THwhore junk" just good for "Hit it/kill it/get TH up and go /sit, we won't cure you".

- Since treasure hunter now seems to work like Dancer steps, can the effect wear off with time? No idea. All the TH cases i kept track, TH were either "dead/zoned/noTHF" or "3+ treasurepool slots, minus 100% stuff".

Additional Note on the 100% stuff topic: i don't remember seeing that before Abyssea, but noticed from a lot of Brew'd Orthruses that Atheling Mantle is 100% drop ONLY if AT LEAST 1 person in pt/ally don't have it; otherwise it won't drop at all if everyone got it. Wondering if there are other stuff like that ? Asking because if that stuff shares a treasurepool slot with another one, then might there a possibility to "force" drop of one or other stuff ?

[Hitoseijuro]

Ok so I spent like 5h on making good calc for avg WS in excel. I tried to calc Vsmite with 90 Veret on 90 lvl mob and I got avg 4800 which is pretty high and id where I could make mistake but maybe im wrong and its good? I will post some data from it:

WSC: 125
Base: 216
Mob def: 393
Crit dmg bonus: 39%
Crit rate: 83.3%
Attack: 711
cRatio: 1.8
pDIF: 2.69
fTP: 5.9625

Is it possible that 4800 is right or I fucked something?

I didnt math it out(your scenerio), but it looks about right considering when I have math out victory smite on lv 97mobs with around the same defense and buffs I got around 4300-4400 average.

Btw are your buffs average buffs?(have to calculate for berserk being up and down and impetus being up and down therefore varying the rest of your buffs) or did you just set it as a constant number?

[Mojo]

Will using BlinkMeNot cause skill chain damage to be displayed in the log?

[Raen Ryong]

Additional Note on the 100% stuff topic: i don't remember seeing that before Abyssea, but noticed from a lot of Brew'd Orthruses that Atheling Mantle is 100% drop ONLY if AT LEAST 1 person in pt/ally don't have it; otherwise it won't drop at all if everyone got it. Wondering if there are other stuff like that ? Asking because if that stuff shares a treasurepool slot with another one, then might there a possibility to "force" drop of one or other stuff ?

This works with anything except coffer keys. You can't use it to force the other drop; you'll simply have a chance of getting nothing in the case of KB with Pixie/DRing for instance.

[Masamune]

Ok so I spent like 5h on making good calc for avg WS in excel. I tried to calc Vsmite with 90 Veret on 90 lvl mob and I got avg 4800 which is pretty high and id where I could make mistake but maybe im wrong and its good? I will post some data from it:

WSC: 125
Base: 216
Mob def: 393
Crit dmg bonus: 39%
Crit rate: 83.3%
Attack: 711
cRatio: 1.8
pDIF: 2.69
fTP: 5.9625

Is it possible that 4800 is right or I fucked something?

I must thank you Atoreis: your example helped me find some bugs on my calc.
After fixing them, i get the following numbers :

MNK90/war45, Verethragna(90), no buffs, no merits, naked except weapon
VS.
"RandomAbysseaMob" inserted into Mob Database having VIT95 Def393 and no phys resistance/weakness

From the WSC value you gave, i guessed STR used during Vsmites = 247.
Also added enough accuracy correction(+50 from 384base) to get the monk 95% WSaccuracy.
Same for WSattack : 711 (=502base+209correction).

BaseDMG: 89
dSTR: 44
fSTR: 12
cRatio: 1.809
min pDIF: 1,342
max pDIF: 2,280
min pDIF crit 2,418
max pDIF crit: 3,150
WSC: 125
dTP: 8,0% (it's the TP overflow above 100%, meaning you actually WSd on average @ 108%TP)
fTP: 2,250 (constant at any TP% like any crit-based WSs)
WS Crit Bonus: 21,60% (VSmite critrate @ 100% being unknown, i "eyeballed" 20% just for this test purpose, the remaining 1.6% comes from the dTP)
Total WS crit: 95,00%
WS Min.: 646
WS Max: 1097
WSx Min. : 287 ("x" means additional WShits, since VSmite is 4-hits WS)
WSx Max : 487
WSCrit Min.: 1164
WSCrit Max: 1516
WSxCrit Min.: 517
WSxCrit Max: 674
1st Hit Avg.: 1375,82
Extra Hit(s) Avg.: 1723,05
WS Avg. : 3098,87
Max WS dmg: 4886

... and that's without the 39% critdmg.

Now if i adds it, numbers become:
WSCrit Min.: 1618
WSCrit Max: 2108
WSxCrit Min.: 719
WSxCrit Max: 936
1st Hit Avg.: 1895,03
Extra Hit(s) Avg.: 2372,12
WS Avg. : 4267,15
Max WS dmg: 6788

Notice: since test were with /war, removing the 10% DoubleAttack removes ~200dmg from average and max numbers

I don't have mnk lvld, but indeed those last numbers looks pretty high even for an Empy o.O
Honestly, i think missing some key info(s) (and also a controlled parse <_<): in this test i had to guess/eyeballed some parameters... (i hate that)

EDIT: i think i found the culprit
If i set the Critrate cap @ 50% instead of 95%(with atmas) i get following numbers :

1st Hit Avg.: 1298,89
Extra Hit(s) Avg.: 1730,66
WS Avg. : 3029,55
Max WS dmg: 5852

Sound more reasonable right ?
So besides WSs are capped @ 50% critrate even with atmas, i don't see what else could fuck up calculations...
Would be nice to compare that with a parse...

[Ocara]

Will using BlinkMeNot cause skill chain damage to be displayed in the log?

Yes, for whoever is set to not blink that closes a chain.

[Airenn]

After playing for 7+ years, this is such a stupid question but I am going to ask it anyway.

Before I quit recently, my friend said that it was theoretically possible to kill KB with a couple people and if those couple people had the Dex earring then the ring would be forced to drop.

Nay or yay?

[Neisan]

Used to be that way a long time ago before it was changed, so nay. You'll just get nothing.

[Beave]

After playing for 7+ years, this is such a stupid question but I am going to ask it anyway.

Before I quit recently, my friend said that it was theoretically possible to kill KB with a couple people and if those couple people had the Dex earring then the ring would be forced to drop.

Nay or yay?

Look about 3 posts up -- in short, nay. You can't force it to drop (I remember back when KB was still serious bizz in like 2005 a lot of groups tried this method). Basically comes down to what Raen said; you won't force the ring, you'll just end up with a chance at getting nothing to drop instead.

[D44kpunk]

After playing for 7+ years, this is such a stupid question but I am going to ask it anyway.

Before I quit recently, my friend said that it was theoretically possible to kill KB with a couple people and if those couple people had the Dex earring then the ring would be forced to drop.

Nay or yay?

?

[Byrthnoth]

Longer explanation that's actually shorter:
It used to work back in 2005, but SE patched it so now it doesn't. It also used to work on Ultima/Omega (screw homam head) and BC50s. As long as you had the worthless (rare) drops, you could force the good drop.

[Airenn]

Look about 3 posts up -- in short, nay. You can't force it to drop (I remember back when KB was still serious bizz in like 2005 a lot of groups tried this method). Basically comes down to what Raen said; you won't force the ring, you'll just end up with a chance at getting nothing to drop instead.

Oops, I didn't read up, but thanks Ry! (And everyone else.)

[Martel]

Does anyone have the CE modifier for level 90 cure enmity? Kaeko's blog only has up to 75. And i don't know how to project what the lvl 90 might be based on its rate of decline up to lvl 75.

[Syntex]

Does anyone have the CE modifier for level 90 cure enmity? Kaeko's blog only has up to 75. And i don't know how to project what the lvl 90 might be based on its rate of decline up to lvl 75.

Is there a deeper reason to why you want to know said values?

I ask because it seems irrelevant to know that info with how abyssea operates these days.

[Nemesio]

If I lost my FF discs, could I download a torrent for PoL? And then I guess use the all in one update found in Advanced? Anyone know of a working torrent?

[Byrthnoth]

Is there a deeper reason to why you want to know said values?

I ask because it seems irrelevant to know that info with how abyssea operates these days.

He is probably offline optimizing his cure cheat set in case it becomes useful again.

40/64 seems like a likely candidate for the CE modifier, which would make 240/64 a likely candidate for the VE multiplier.