Random Question Thread XIX: Welcome to Flavor Country

[Michelob]

Can anyone suggest a good mix of gear for monk to tank with assuming they are MT in abyssea with support.

All gear options possible aside from dring/relic/mythic though (emp yes). I got an idea but I want someone else input to see what I might have missed. This is specifically to TP/idle in and not min/max pdt/mdt gear.

Thinking full tantra+2/emp wep/ tantra tath/seatorque/bb/atheling/raja/epona, but would some evasion gear be better?

MT.... Main tank? Never seen that abbreviation is why I ask. As you assumed, you are going to do just fine using your normal TP gear in 95% of situations in abyssea tanking on monk. MDT set is very useful (sometimes necessary especially if you're a Taru). I can't think of anything off hand that I've needed evasion for in abyssea. Outside abyssea the evasion is quite nice, though.

[Martel]

I'm not really sure where to put this. It's Ochain related, but not strictly about Ochain, so I don't feel like it goes in the magian weapons thread. Well, I think its sufficiently random to go here.

Since getting Ochain I've been doing a lot of various shield mechanics testing, as the extremely high block rate makes things easier to test.

So, I wanted to find out exactly how counter and shield blocks interact. Honestly, I was expecting to see some really low dmg counters. But since getting Ochain, I hadn't seen any counters at all. Testing was called for.

Tests/Details

Spoiler: show

Tests were done on Falsespinner Bhudbrodd. A MNK NM in La Vaule[S] who spams Orcish counterstance, making him pretty useful for this test. Used an OA2~4 Khanda for low dmg melee spam. Parsed with Kparser. Amazing parser. Thank you, Motenten.

Test 1. Base counter test. No Shield.

Offense tab

Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                12767   99.91 %    319/301   51.45 %   95.48 %     0/112    36.21    37.91     29     0/133     78.10    9.09 %

Defense Tab

Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              17220        273/0      0/129   63.08         0           0/0         0/0     0.00

Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     5.34 %      22   5.91 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

The M.HR %(Melee Hit Rate) the M.Acc %(Melee Accuracy) are really useful for this test. I assume mob parries would be factored into the M.HR%, making this not an exact counter rate. However the parry rate should be about the same across all tests. So the differences in M.HR% can be attributed to a change in counter rate.

Edit: Hours later I realized.. It might be a beastman mob, but MNKs don't parry. Guard, lol. So no worries about skewed counter rates from that.

So we're looking at about a 44% counter rate, with no shield.

Test 2. Argos Shield(kite/size 3)

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                17178   95.53 %    459/213   68.30 %   95.39 %      0/59    32.92    34.63     52     0/103     72.65   11.33 %

Defense Tab
Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              10600        182/0      0/104   58.24         0           0/0         0/0     0.00


Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  22     5.02 %      34   8.17 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

So, after equipping a basic shield we've gone from a 44% counter rate, to a 27% rate. While I realize the sample sizes involved are too small for precision I think that's a big enough difference to say that shields have an impact on counter rate itself, Rather than counter damage. So blocking a counter prevents it from occurring at all and lets your melee hit through. Just like evading or parrying a counter does.

Although, I have to say, I would have expected a bigger difference between no shield and shield. Makes me wonder if counters are harder to block or something. Or maybe my block rate just sucked on that guy.

Test 3. Ochain.

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                24674   43.84 %     491/29   94.42 %   94.42 %      0/91    43.28    44.00     67     0/201     94.39   13.65 %

Defense Tab
Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     4.66 %      29   6.74 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

You might notice that the counters subsection of the defense tab isn't there. That's because it wasn't there in the parse. Apparently that section only shows up if counters were detected. Which they weren't, cause there weren't any.

Also the M.HR% and M.ACC% matched exactly. Showing that I was never countered or parried.

Ochain PLD = Un-Counterable. MNK mobs make me smile now. Awesome TP feed, and no counters. Huh.. I wonder if blocked counters give TP via shield mastery? Well, probly not, most likely counts as a 0 dmg hit.

Anyway, the point of the Argos shield test, which I did after the Ochain test, was to show that counter blocking isn't unique to Ochain. It's a basic shield mechanic that Ochain has a much higher rate on.

TLDR; Counters can be shield blocked. A blocked counter simply doesn't occur, and the PLD's melee hit lands normally.

An Ochain PLD is effectively Un-Counterable.

[Gun-it]

Loki's is only for Hi, as far as NIN goes.

wouldn't it be good for jin til you get af3+1/2 body?

[Belgaer]

WS+10% Magian weapons: they don't seem to specify if the effect works offhand or just if the weapon is used in mainhand for the WS. Does anyone know one way or the other?

[drwaffles]

So I want to swap the Abyssea battle theme to something from another FF game, the problem is:

1. I can't find where the Abyssea music is located, and

2. the .bgw > .wav and vice versa converter I'm using doesn't seem to be able to convert any post-CoP .bgw's, which means I can't check which track is which. It also means I probably can't use the .bgw's created using this program to replace the existing Abyssea ones.

Any advice?

Edit: think I've found where the files are kept, but as expected trying to convert them causes the program to crash. Grr.

Double edit: never mind, it worked!

[Radec]

WS+10% Magian weapons: they don't seem to specify if the effect works offhand or just if the weapon is used in mainhand for the WS. Does anyone know one way or the other?

Mainhand only, http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/103...=1#post4503628

[TheDirtyHobo]

Loki's is only for Hi, as far as NIN goes.

Honestly, even when I convert my sheet to Hi, I'm still getting a slight edge on Emp+2 over Loki's unless pdif capped. Not nearly by such a huge margin, but it's still a fair bit ahead.

[Rehn]

Is there a link to a trusted FFXI download thingy? Friend lost his CDs but he wants to re-install.

[Yugl]

Do you mean a website like Steam?

[Rehn]

Don't think friend has steam, but something trusted like say, that's been posted by a BG member or a link that people have downloaded from in the past and works.

[Yugl]

Gamestop, Steam, and I think the official website itself. Steam is free to join too I think.

[Ozzy2]

I'm thinking of scaling the floors of Nyzul Isle to open up some weaponskilly goodness - a few questions relating to it;

* is it uncapped now like most other battlefields? - if so, could it be low-manned by 2-3/4 people?
* does any of the gear still have practical use? - just incase I could use this as a tool to gather interest in helping my noob-ish butt climb those floors... :/

Again, I appreciate any info anyone can share. Thanks.

[Michelob]

I'm thinking of scaling the floors of Nyzul Isle to open up some weaponskilly goodness - a few questions relating to it;

* is it uncapped now like most other battlefields? - if so, could it be low-manned by 2-3/4 people?
* does any of the gear still have practical use? - just incase I could use this as a tool to gather interest in helping my noob-ish butt climb those floors... :/

Again, I appreciate any info anyone can share. Thanks.

Nyzul was never capped. Yes it an be lowmanned (minimum of 3 needed to enter all assaults so 2 is out of the question) but I think you could get screwed by a lamp floor unless that scales down, not sure.

Quite a few of the pieces are situationaly useful still.

[Azuark]

Is Yaanei a 15-20 min pop or a 15-45 min pop. Kinda currently stalling a brew >.>; lol

[Neisan]

Lamp floors either aren't scaled down or they're just plain random, even entering with 3 people We got a 5 lamp floor in Nyzul.

[Xera]

Lamp floors either aren't scaled down or they're just plain random, even entering with 3 people We got a 5 lamp floor in Nyzul.

Order or Time?

[Moridam]

i did the initial climb from 75-100 at lv90 and never had a lamp floor that couldn't be completed without the team we initially entered with (max 4 i think?). unless you get screwed with some really dumb luck, you can do 5 floor jaunts at a casual pace, 10 easily if you're coordinated and not completely retarded.

[Atoreis]

Spoiler: show

I'm not really sure where to put this. It's Ochain related, but not strictly about Ochain, so I don't feel like it goes in the magian weapons thread. Well, I think its sufficiently random to go here.

Since getting Ochain I've been doing a lot of various shield mechanics testing, as the extremely high block rate makes things easier to test.

So, I wanted to find out exactly how counter and shield blocks interact. Honestly, I was expecting to see some really low dmg counters. But since getting Ochain, I hadn't seen any counters at all. Testing was called for.

Tests/Details

Spoiler: show

Tests were done on Falsespinner Bhudbrodd. A MNK NM in La Vaule[S] who spams Orcish counterstance, making him pretty useful for this test. Used an OA2~4 Khanda for low dmg melee spam. Parsed with Kparser. Amazing parser. Thank you, Motenten.

Test 1. Base counter test. No Shield.

Offense tab

Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                12767   99.91 %    319/301   51.45 %   95.48 %     0/112    36.21    37.91     29     0/133     78.10    9.09 %

Defense Tab

Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              17220        273/0      0/129   63.08         0           0/0         0/0     0.00

Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     5.34 %      22   5.91 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

The M.HR %(Melee Hit Rate) the M.Acc %(Melee Accuracy) are really useful for this test. I assume mob parries would be factored into the M.HR%, making this not an exact counter rate. However the parry rate should be about the same across all tests. So the differences in M.HR% can be attributed to a change in counter rate.

So we're looking at about a 44% counter rate, with no shield.

Test 2. Argos Shield(kite/size 3)

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                17178   95.53 %    459/213   68.30 %   95.39 %      0/59    32.92    34.63     52     0/103     72.65   11.33 %

Defense Tab
Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              10600        182/0      0/104   58.24         0           0/0         0/0     0.00


Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  22     5.02 %      34   8.17 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

So, after equipping a basic shield we've gone from a 44% counter rate, to a 27% rate. While I realize the sample sizes involved are too small for precision I think that's a big enough difference to say that shields have an impact on counter rate itself, Rather than counter damage. So blocking a counter prevents it from occurring at all and lets your melee hit through. Just like evading or parrying a counter does.

Although, I have to say, I would have expected a bigger difference between no shield and shield. Makes me wonder if counters are harder to block or something. Or maybe my block rate just sucked on that guy.

Test 3. Ochain.

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                24674   43.84 %     491/29   94.42 %   94.42 %      0/91    43.28    44.00     67     0/201     94.39   13.65 %

Defense Tab
Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     4.66 %      29   6.74 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

You might notice that the counters subsection of the defense tab isn't there. That's because it wasn't there in the parse. Apparently that section only shows up if counters were detected. Which they weren't, cause there weren't any.

Also the M.HR% and M.ACC% matched exactly. Showing that I was never countered or parried.

Ochain PLD = Un-Counterable. MNK mobs make me smile now. Awesome TP feed, and no counters. Huh.. I wonder if blocked counters give TP via shield mastery? Well, probly not, most likely counts as a 0 dmg hit.

Anyway, the point of the Argos shield test, which I did after the Ochain test, was to show that counter blocking isn't unique to Ochain. It's a basic shield mechanic that Ochain has a much higher rate on.

TLDR; Counters can be shield blocked. A blocked counter simply doesn't occur, and the PLD's melee hit lands normally.

An Ochain PLD is effectively Un-Counterable.

I love you :D Great test and should definitely be copied to "Mathy part".
Yesterday I got my 73th soul so you made me smile even more inside

[Yugl]

I'm not really sure where to put this. It's Ochain related, but not strictly about Ochain, so I don't feel like it goes in the magian weapons thread. Well, I think its sufficiently random to go here.

Since getting Ochain I've been doing a lot of various shield mechanics testing, as the extremely high block rate makes things easier to test.

So, I wanted to find out exactly how counter and shield blocks interact. Honestly, I was expecting to see some really low dmg counters. But since getting Ochain, I hadn't seen any counters at all. Testing was called for.

Tests/Details

Spoiler: show

Tests were done on Falsespinner Bhudbrodd. A MNK NM in La Vaule[S] who spams Orcish counterstance, making him pretty useful for this test. Used an OA2~4 Khanda for low dmg melee spam. Parsed with Kparser. Amazing parser. Thank you, Motenten.

Test 1. Base counter test. No Shield.

Offense tab

Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                12767   99.91 %    319/301   51.45 %   95.48 %     0/112    36.21    37.91     29     0/133     78.10    9.09 %

Defense Tab

Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              17220        273/0      0/129   63.08         0           0/0         0/0     0.00

Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     5.34 %      22   5.91 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

The M.HR %(Melee Hit Rate) the M.Acc %(Melee Accuracy) are really useful for this test. I assume mob parries would be factored into the M.HR%, making this not an exact counter rate. However the parry rate should be about the same across all tests. So the differences in M.HR% can be attributed to a change in counter rate.

So we're looking at about a 44% counter rate, with no shield.

Test 2. Argos Shield(kite/size 3)

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                17178   95.53 %    459/213   68.30 %   95.39 %      0/59    32.92    34.63     52     0/103     72.65   11.33 %

Defense Tab
Other Physical Damage Taken  (Counterattacks and Retaliations)
Player             CA.Dmg  CA.Hit/Miss  CA.Low/Hi  CA.Avg   Ret.Dmg  Ret.Hit/Miss  Ret.Low/Hi  Ret.Avg
Martel              10600        182/0      0/104   58.24         0           0/0         0/0     0.00


Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  22     5.02 %      34   8.17 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

So, after equipping a basic shield we've gone from a 44% counter rate, to a 27% rate. While I realize the sample sizes involved are too small for precision I think that's a big enough difference to say that shields have an impact on counter rate itself, Rather than counter damage. So blocking a counter prevents it from occurring at all and lets your melee hit through. Just like evading or parrying a counter does.

Although, I have to say, I would have expected a bigger difference between no shield and shield. Makes me wonder if counters are harder to block or something. Or maybe my block rate just sucked on that guy.

Test 3. Ochain.

Offense Tab
Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss    M.HR %   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi  M+0.Avg  M-0.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C-0.Avg     Crit%
Martel                24674   43.84 %     491/29   94.42 %   94.42 %      0/91    43.28    44.00     67     0/201     94.39   13.65 %

Defense Tab
Passive Defenses
Player             Evasion  Evasion %   Parry  Parry %   Counter  Counter %   Intimidate  Intimidate %
Martel                  21     4.66 %      29   6.74 %         0     0.00 %            0        0.00 %

You might notice that the counters subsection of the defense tab isn't there. That's because it wasn't there in the parse. Apparently that section only shows up if counters were detected. Which they weren't, cause there weren't any.

Also the M.HR% and M.ACC% matched exactly. Showing that I was never countered or parried.

Ochain PLD = Un-Counterable. MNK mobs make me smile now. Awesome TP feed, and no counters. Huh.. I wonder if blocked counters give TP via shield mastery? Well, probly not, most likely counts as a 0 dmg hit.

Anyway, the point of the Argos shield test, which I did after the Ochain test, was to show that counter blocking isn't unique to Ochain. It's a basic shield mechanic that Ochain has a much higher rate on.

TLDR; Counters can be shield blocked. A blocked counter simply doesn't occur, and the PLD's melee hit lands normally.

An Ochain PLD is effectively Un-Counterable.

I'm surprised this went by with so little attention. Great stuff and I will link to this post in the math section. We're going to revise the section when FM confirms something with Sonocat/Ragns, so expect it in the MNK or MNK+WAR+SAM or General mechanics section when the revision goes up.

[Lyramion]

Lamp floors either aren't scaled down or they're just plain random, even entering with 3 people We got a 5 lamp floor in Nyzul.

I can confirm this. Even 3 ppl will get 5 lamps - Order and Time, doesnt matter. You can however do order with 3 well trained ppl, and you can even do "same time" with 3 usually since some lamps close together and the "same time" still has a small window in which you can run around and activate another one.

Can anyone suggest a good mix of gear for monk to tank with assuming they are MT in abyssea with support.

All gear options possible aside from dring/relic/mythic though (emp yes). I got an idea but I want someone else input to see what I might have missed. This is specifically to TP/idle in and not min/max pdt/mdt gear.

Thinking full tantra+2/emp wep/ tantra tath/seatorque/bb/atheling/raja/epona, but would some evasion gear be better?

The basics are simple. Tantra +2 head, legs and BB give you capped haste. Now you have Body, hands feet, neck etc free to do whatever you want trading killspeed for cure efficiency where needed. You get away with full DD gear on at least 90% of stuff in Abys tho.

For PDT set insert: Arhats Body, Twilight Torque, Dark Rings, Denali hand, maybe -PDT claws

For MDT set insert: Avalon Breatplate, Twilight Torque, Dark Rings, Merman Earring(s), Denali Hands

Depending on how good your Dark Rings are you easily cap -MDT with Shell and get over -40% PDT.


Evasion really is a on a special case basis for example on mobs you have to turn around alot, things that make you lose Counterstance or things that have nasty En- effects like Doom.