The Dark Knight Rises

[Meresgi]

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A friend and I were talking about it, and how is Gotham ever going to come back from this..?

I mean, in the comics, after No Man's Land, the only thing that saved Gotham was that Luthor poured millions (probably billions) into Gotham to get it fixed up and then Batman essentially pulled the rug out from under him. With DKR, not only is Gotham screwed, but it's worse off since the haves were essentially wiped out by the have-nots. If I were a business person, there's not way in hell I'm bringing my business interests back to Gotham given their track record..

And, I think that issue illustrates one of the big problems with DKR over DK. In DK, Batman's point to Joker was that Gotham wasn't as insane as him and was still full of good people. We get the end of the movie and start of this new one where supposedly all the problems with crime have been fixed, Gotham is doing great, etc. Then Bane comes back, and with very little prodding, is able to unleash this class war. (Was anyone else really bothered by how easily Bane was able to do that? It honestly reminded me of Begins where Rachel talks about how some people act like the recession is over, but the people who don't have are still struggling..) I think the movie would have been a lot better if the people of Gotham had risen up and taken the fight against Bane's mercs. While it was good that the police were involved in the fight, what about the rest of Gotham? The city is still screwed up, and even if we move past the bomb, I can't imagine any scenario where it is fixed..

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Well you can see from how Selena talks that there are still problems with the class balance in the city. Also most of the citizens it looks like are in their homes just trying to get by, some rose up and joined Bane but I think a lot just went into hidding. Obviously the people at the lowest part would join up because what else do they have to lose?

[Serra]

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They didn't. Thats why the funeral had only 4 people there. I assumed they just kept it hush hush about the circumstances of his death and didn't really bother clarifying. People might put it together, or they might not.

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I just assumed they told people he died during Bane's revolution. People saw him get caught, and given they were killing all the rich people, perfectly plausible for him to have died that way.

[Sumiko]

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Same lol. Being from New York I just couldn't get beyond that. I busted out laughing towards the end because I thought Batman was going to drop the bomb off at Jersey and call it a day.

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... you just floored me XD XD haha, spoken like a true new yorker.

[Apelila]

You mean like Joker's plan was physically impossible to even conceive? Or the microburst emitter? or a thousand other things you can delve into just like how you're tearing apart this bomb thing?

I never claimed to be annoyed simply because it couldn't happen. In fact I think I've said oh, 4 times now: the timer on the bomb highlighted the absurdity of the thought that a helicopter could fly a nuclear weapon away from a major city in 72 seconds. The fact that no matter how you fudge the numbers it couldn't realistically happen is just an aside that I keep getting distracted on.

The disarming of the bomb was the climax of this movie. Of many things this movie could have played differently the fact that each and every time they went with the most contrived, easy to spot setup is what pissed me off. I'll concede I've let the whole ranting of 'how its impossible' get away from me a bit. In my quote, I've been trying to bring it back to one point: the direction wasn't as good as the first 2. They had flaws but you could ignore them. This one had flaws that cripple the plot.

This movie makes a point of shoving a scenario in your face with a timer that cant be beat and sits back and says "Yeah, we did it". The timer and the bomb are elements in the plot. By virtue of the bomb being a bigger threat than the villains, they also become the tension in the story. As the timer goes down the tension rises. Perfectly acceptable plot device. Until you cross into "We're ignoring reality" by 1: taking away any chance of diffusing the bomb and 2: making the timer on the bomb impossible to outrun.If you still come away with a happy ending, you pulled it out of your ass and it is the mark of someone who either isn't aware that they've created an ass pull or doesn't care.

"So what?" A lot of you are saying. "It's a movie, enjoy it for what it is".
I did. There where many great scenes, Anne Hathaway's Catwoman was played perfectly and I didn't want to cover my ears when Christian Bale talked in his "Deep Throat" Batman voice. But the plot has some serious issues, and I've highlighted my biggest complaint about the direction and explained why earlier and how it could have been done easier and still have fit the ending perfectly.

The first point you bring up, the Joker's plot. The Joker's plot is different in this situation because it's a setup, a frame work for the characters to work in. Anytime you look at a work of fiction you're going to find logical holes. If the setting allows them, it doesn't matter. As a plot device the "Killing Joke" is convoluted as hell. But being a background element, your attention isn't drawn to the fact that "Oh hey, they exploded just as the good guys got there". The timer is literally focused on at least 20 times as it counts down at the end of this movie.

This is set in a world that is supposed to be much more grounded in reality than the comic. They take time to explain things like why the batcopter can fly between buildings with as much maneuverability as it has, how the cellphone network can be used to create a sonar like environment, and yes they even went a little into the microwave emitter of your second point.

So yes, I'm tearing apart the climax of the movie for not fitting in with the rest of the series in either direction or execution from my point of view. I'm still going to see it again in Imax in a couple of weeks because it was good as a whole. The climax had a critical failure, and I hate it when a climax sucks.

[Omniyoji]

>_> some people need to be paying more attention during the movie. Also best lol moment was:

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When Catwoman disappeared from Bats and he was all like, "Oh, so that's what that feels like." plus that look on his face.

Also for the people wanting

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Batman to die

wait for Man of Steel <_< I assume it'll be more than one movie? Probably also a trilogy?

[Meresgi]

This is set in a world that is supposed to be much more grounded in reality than the comic. They take time to explain things like why the batcopter can fly between buildings with as much maneuverability as it has, how the cellphone network can be used to create a sonar like environment, and yes they even went a little into the microwave emitter of your second point.

There are exceptions, you're just nitpicking to fucking nitpick instead of enjoying the ride for what it was. Oh shit the timer wouldn't be possible? Who gives a fuck, it was supposed to be suspenseful, we all know that shit wouldn't work irl but having the timer say "1 hour till detonation" wouldn't be as dramatic and wouldn't get that stress factor across. There are tons and tons of shit in all three movies that don't make sense in the real world if you sit down and dissect it bit by bit, but fucking why bother? At that point it's not even entertainment.

Yeah there are parts that you go "wait..what?" but it doesn't make it a bad movie. TDK > TDKR = Batman Begins.

[Xajii]

Ok, I feel like I'm just piling onto a thread full of opinions, but I have to voice the numerous reasons why I felt that Nolan dropped the ball. It was a good movie, I thoroughly enjoyed watching it, and there were many strong points (Anne Hathaway at the top), but good lord it feels like he lost the universe he created.

Below is in list format for least wall-of-text as possible.

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1. Gotham did not feel like Gotham anymore, at all. Part of this is due to the gratuitous NYC shots, but it's also because most of the movie took place during the day, and there was no longer even a single remnant of the old relic town from Batman Begins.

2. Speaking of day and night, it shifted wantonly, to the point where it was actually jarring to see the daytime because you know it's supposed to be night.. Like, there are serious time gaps that are just sloppy. Bruce goes home to his mansion and fucks Talia. They go to sleep. He goes out to meet Selina Kyle, as planned. And it's fucking daytime. No.

3. Fear, chaos, and terror were expected - even almost guaranteed - from Bane's character, the trailers, and so on. What we got was a sloppy bomb plot. A boring bomb plot with a twist that made no difference and only served to demean Bane's character entirely.

4. On Bane - he was good until it was revealed that he was nothing more than a puppy in love, and that's what ruined the film the most for me. Talia's desire for revenge is so forced and so much less interesting than the million other things they could have done with Bane.

5. Talia had the detonator the whole time and didn't blow it up, ever, until the last second, despite never being in a compromised position until then. That's exceptionally dumb.

6. The entire army of Bane's followers, the story behind breaking people out of Blackgate, and the complete ignoring of Arkham Asylum led to a group of villains who the audience struggles to understand or care about and a city dynamic that is both forced and unexplained. * The Scarecrow scenes were great, however, and serve as a strong counterpoint to this. I'd say it wasn't nearly enough, however.

7. The cop character who looked a little too much like Harvey Dent and wussed out for a while was the biggest waste of time I've seen in a franchise movie in a long time. What the fuck? Who thought this was a good idea? Who cares about him? Do you even remember his name? I do not.

8. Again, TALIA HAD THE DETONATOR THE ENTIRE TIME. I thought we got over these blatant oversights of villain plots with the popularity of something like Watchmen. Even TDK showed that Nolan knows how to develop a villain who isn't an idiot and doesn't not do something just for the sake of dragging shit on and letting the heroes win. Oh, not to mention that Bruce Wayne left Talia in his mansion alone for the night (even though it was day outside, what the fuck) to go see Selina Kyle.

9. Crippled for 8 years, fixed that in a heartbeat. I get that he was shutting himself in, but come on. If the fix was that easy then I don't buy that he wouldn't have done something about it. Also, the 8 years thing. Nothing about this movie makes it seem like 8 years later, or really any more than a single year. Everyone is still sucking Harvey Dent's dick, eight years later? Kids who are barely eight years old are drawing Batman signs everywhere? Nah, son.

Sloppy writing. Good acting. Really, really sloppy writing. And I'm not even talking about the shitty dialogue*.

* Not to say all of it was shitty - some of Bane's monologues were awesome and I generally liked Selina Kyle etc. I'm talking more about the cliche stuff which has been kind of present in all of these films. I'm on the fence about some of the funnier quips, like "So that's how that feels" or Batman repeating "Then you have my permission to die" to Bane.

I'd still recommend it to anyone, as it's a good movie, and the ending given to characters is satisfying enough. But these things... they hurt me a bit.

[Thunder]

Because Batman isn't good at evading detection, right?

never thought someone would get so mad at a post that was supposed to make light of nitpicking the plot

[Xno Kappa]

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The kids who couldn't be any older then 9~10 talking about Batman was pretty lulz. It's like Nolan forgot he set the movie eight years later.

[Gredival]

Anyone notice how in these movies batman kills A LOT of people? I noticed it rewatching the 1st and 2nd movie, how he basically "kills" Ras by not saving him and other shit which is totally out of character from the comics. And you see that character come through in the 2nd when he saves the Joker from falling to his death.

I fucking argue with my girlfriend all the time about this. Batman may not directly kill Ras, but he leaves him on a speeding train after disabling the controls and having his helper take out the rails with his Humvee Lamborghini. The result is pretty obvious. It's like saying "I didn't kill him pushing him down the cliff, that was gravity!"

Yet somehow he feels an obligation to save the Joker despite what the Joker did to Rachel?

Now with this movie

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if he's fine blowing the truck sky high, like he should be, why doesn't he just use some sort of weapon to destroy Bane's mask. Not even talking a lethal gun, he could use that taser gun he had or some sort of bladed knuckle. He doesn't need to bet Gotham on a fist fight.

[Kuishen]

Am I going to have to reiterate this on every page?

Bane was not "just a puppy in love", or a henchmen. He provided the mastermind and strategy behind everything, Talia provided the ideology.

[Xno Kappa]

Lame ass henchman lol. It was like shit came full circle from 1997 with Batman & Robin.

[Meresgi]

Am I going to have to reiterate this on every page?

Bane was not "just a puppy in love", or a henchmen. He provided the mastermind and strategy behind everything, Talia provided the ideology.

Pretty much you're gonna have to. Not sure why people think he was a henchman, because he obviously showed he was the leader in every single scene. So what if he loved Talia and was the one who helped her escape because of that love, that doesn't suddenly transform him into a lackey and make everything he did part of Talia's plan. Maybe he did all this for her and her father and the league of shadows because...he was in the league of shadows.

[Kuishen]

Lame ass henchman lol. It was like shit came full circle from 1997 with Batman & Robin.

You're fucking retarded.

[Xno Kappa]

Why so mad?

[Kuishen]

Why so mad?

Not mad, just stating a fact bro.

[Fhloston]

Lame ass henchman lol. It was like shit came full circle from 1997 with Batman & Robin.

Um, no. Lame ass troll, though.

[Serra]

Pretty much you're gonna have to. Not sure why people think he was a henchman, because he obviously showed he was the leader in every single scene. So what if he loved Talia and was the one who helped her escape because of that love, that doesn't suddenly transform him into a lackey and make everything he did part of Talia's plan. Maybe he did all this for her and her father and the league of shadows because...he was in the league of shadows.

You can't say 100% positive that Bane was the mastermind and Talia was just providing the ideology cause the movie doesn't say that (and I would argue, it doesn't give any proof of that). Just like those of us who think he was just a henchman can't say 100% that all the planning was Talia's doing since she never comes out and says "this was all my plan". But, when she comes in, saves Bane and stabs Batman, then gives her whole speech about how this is revenge for her father, and then tells Bane to keep him alive gives some pretty good evidence that she's the one calling the shots. Sure he attempts to disobey her, but not to her face.

In response to Xajii's comment about the other police officer -- Foley was one of the important characters during the No Man's Land comics, and I'm convinced that Nolan included him just for that reason. While both versions of the character disagreed vehemently with Gordon at times (in the comics, Foley has much harsher methods of keeping the peace and takes a group to form their own territory), the difference was, Foley was insane in the comics and only a coward in the movie.

[Apelila]

If he was the leader then what was his motivation? Terror and anarchy are one thing, but more than once he went out of his way to fuck over Bruce directly. He had no personal grudge against batman/bruce wayne.

[Kuishen]

If he was the leader then what was his motivation? Terror and anarchy are one thing, but more than once he went out of his way to fuck over Bruce directly. He had no personal grudge against batman/bruce wayne.

Because Bruce was the richest mother fucker in the city? And the whole point of the terror and anarchy was to bring the rich down to the level of everybody else.