The Dark Knight Rises

[Serra]

Because Bruce was the richest mother fucker in the city? And the whole point of the terror and anarchy was to bring the rich down to the level of everybody else.

Until they stole all his money and brought him down with everyone else (which was more a plot point than anything).. And I think more to Apelila's point -- why did Bane leave him alive to watch Gotham burn rather than kill him. Clearly at the end he was going to kill him rather than let him feel the heat of the bomb as Talia wanted.

[Xajii]

Because Bruce was the richest mother fucker in the city? And the whole point of the terror and anarchy was to bring the rich down to the level of everybody else.

Re: henchman argument

Spoiler: show

I find that this was done poorly. It's like they had two separate motivations and plans for Gotham but the movie tried to tie them together:

Talia wanted revenge for her father and in some ass-backwards way claimed to want to use the idea of the League of Shadows in Gotham, but her solution is to BLOW UP THE ENTIRE CITY.

For most of the movie, Bane seems to want the ideology of the League of Shadows to hit Gotham through the means he explored - emptying Wayne Enterprises, removing the police from the equation, etc.

When you reveal that Bane was working with Talia, his entire plan seems pointless, because they're just going to kill everyone. And I don't think that's what the League of Shadows would have wanted, ideologically speaking.

I don't think he was a bad character, but he gave up his entire plan in favor of a dumb destroy-everything plan. It ruins him a bit.

[Tyrath]

Spoiler: show

The kids who couldn't be any older then 9~10 talking about Batman was pretty lulz. It's like Nolan forgot he set the movie eight years later.

In a movie where Catwoman comments "a 12 year old with a phone could find out everything about you" it surprises you that kids have heard the story of the batman? Hell, to acknowledge the age issue, JGL even asked the kid "you know about him?"

Re: henchman argument

Spoiler: show

I find that this was done poorly. It's like they had two separate motivations and plans for Gotham but the movie tried to tie them together:

Talia wanted revenge for her father and in some ass-backwards way claimed to want to use the idea of the League of Shadows in Gotham, but her solution is to BLOW UP THE ENTIRE CITY.

For most of the movie, Bane seems to want the ideology of the League of Shadows to hit Gotham through the means he explored - emptying Wayne Enterprises, removing the police from the equation, etc.

When you reveal that Bane was working with Talia, his entire plan seems pointless, because they're just going to kill everyone. And I don't think that's what the League of Shadows would have wanted, ideologically speaking.

I don't think he was a bad character, but he gave up his entire plan in favor of a dumb destroy-everything plan. It ruins him a bit.

Spoiler: show

Idk, didn't Ra's al Ghul say he was trying to destroy the city and kill its inhabitants in the first movie because Gotham had grown too out of control? "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable." I think Bane's plans fit that very well. He planned from the beginning to destroy everything. He said to Batman he was going to give the people of Gotham hope right before he took everything from them.

And he made special punishment for Bruce because he was Talia's friend/protector and she wanted revenge from him. She even commented that getting her father's murderer while completing his plans was a bonus.

[Xajii]

In a movie where Catwoman comments "a 12 year old with a phone could find out everything about you" it surprises you that kids have heard the story of the batman? Hell, to acknowledge the age issue, JGL even asked the kid "you know about him?"

Had a conversation about this with the room mates. On the one hand, I think it's a bit off because the children should have grown up being told that Batman was bad and that he killed Harvey Dent. On the other hand, kids probably still think he's kind of cool. However, the tone for the kid asking JGL if he's coming back seems to say that the kid somehow knows Batman is good.

[Sumiko]

My friend had to remind me that in the first movie, Ra's al Ghul's plan was to "wipe Gotham clean", which, I guess was the true idea for the League of Shadows... So it wasn't that you-know-who wanted revenge for Ra's.

probably should've watched all 3 movies at once Instead of 3 year gaps inbetween. still.. agreed. such weird writing.

[Xajii]

My friend had to remind me that in the first movie, Ra's al Ghul's plan was to "wipe Gotham clean", which, I guess was the true idea for the League of Shadows...

probably should've watched all 3 movies at once Instead of 3 year gaps inbetween. still.. agreed. such weird writing.

It's like the seatbelt was pulled 95% of the way together but just flopped back at the end.

Spoiler: show

Wiping Gotham clean, to me, would have been a culmination of what Bane was doing. But it got dropped in favor of a bomb.

[Kuishen]

Spoiler: show

Idk, didn't Ra's al Ghul say he was trying to destroy the city and kill its inhabitants in the first movie because Gotham had grown too out of control? "When a forest grows too wild, a purging fire is inevitable." I think Bane's plans fit that very well. He planned from the beginning to destroy everything. He said to Batman he was going to give the people of Gotham hope right before he took everything from them.

And he made special punishment for Bruce because he was Talia's friend/protector and she wanted revenge from him. She even commented that getting her father's murderer while completing his plans was a bonus.

This @ Apelila and Serra.

[Tyrath]

It's like the seatbelt was pulled 95% of the way together but just flopped back at the end.

Spoiler: show

Wiping Gotham clean, to me, would have been a culmination of what Bane was doing. But it got dropped in favor of a bomb.

But al Ghul's plan of wiping gotham clean in the first movie WAS to kill everyone and destroy it. He said so himself in the movie.

[Xajii]

But al Ghul's plan of wiping gotham clean in the first movie WAS to kill everyone and destroy it. He said so himself in the movie.

Fair point I guess, though he was also notably crazy and had been exiled from the League of Shadows, right? If it follows then it follows, I still think that a bomb plot is a lame place to go for the Nolan universe. Bane's way of handling the "balance" that the League of Shadows desires was building up to be very interesting, but there were only a couple of scenes where the rich v. poor dynamic stood out at all, and one of the best was at the very beginning ("Do you feel in control?")

[Tyrath]

I agree with that.

Spoiler: show

Mostly just saying Bane planned to blow up the bomb from the beginning. He said so when he beat up Batman the first time around. That he was going to give the people hope before taking it all away.

[Sumiko]

... there is one thing I totally didn't understand --

Spoiler: show

Why didn't Catwoman just beat Drake up in the room when she made a run for it at the airport? But a poor guard got his face punched just a few minutes before?

[Xajii]

... there is one thing I totally didn't understand --

Spoiler: show

Why didn't Catwoman just beat Drake up in the room when she made a run for it at the airport? But a poor guard got his face punched just a few minutes before?

Spoiler: show

'Cause she's not really like that. He showed a detective badge, I believe, which is a fair bit more substantial than a guard. Beyond that, she'd been on the run for a while and you could argue that getting caught by the cops was actually the better option for her, because she'd have been safer in jail than on the streets with those people after her.

Also, because that scene between JGL and Hathaway talking about Batman was cool, dammit

[Tyrath]

Spoiler: show

Also at that point there were probably other people preventing her from escaping even if she got out of that room.

[Serra]

Spoiler: show

Probably cause she assumed she could still board her plane at that point, but when JGL caught her, she realized they'd just not let the plane take off.

And as others have pointed out, Ra's' plan was to wipe out Gotham, end of story. Talia wanted revenge for what happened to her father. Leaving Batman alive after he's been broken and keeping the city alive for 5 months is not about destroying Gotham, it's about making Batman suffer, something Bane has no motivation to do.

Edit: beaten

[Sunrider]

Re: henchman argument

Spoiler: show

I find that this was done poorly. It's like they had two separate motivations and plans for Gotham but the movie tried to tie them together:

Talia wanted revenge for her father and in some ass-backwards way claimed to want to use the idea of the League of Shadows in Gotham, but her solution is to BLOW UP THE ENTIRE CITY.

For most of the movie, Bane seems to want the ideology of the League of Shadows to hit Gotham through the means he explored - emptying Wayne Enterprises, removing the police from the equation, etc.

When you reveal that Bane was working with Talia, his entire plan seems pointless, because they're just going to kill everyone. And I don't think that's what the League of Shadows would have wanted, ideologically speaking.

I don't think he was a bad character, but he gave up his entire plan in favor of a dumb destroy-everything plan. It ruins him a bit.

But wasn't that always the League of Shadows' intentions, to bring the city to it's knees before destroying it?

I could swear that was how Ra's explained it in Begins, the whole fear gas thing being only the start of the destruction.

[Tyrath]

But wasn't that always the League of Shadows' intentions, to bring the city to it's knees before destroying it?

I could swear that was how Ra's explained it in Begins, the whole fear gas thing being only the start of the destruction.

He does. As I stated earlier. I'm sure of that because I watched the whole trilogy together xD

[Delirium]

Just saw it too... they should've just renamed the movie--

Spoiler: show

The Tim Drake-- err, Blake Rises, featuring Batman and Catwoman.

I don't get why they didn't just call him Tim Drake :/ I mean, there were enough similarities between the two characters that it could've just been him.

living in NYC, I just couldn't suspend the disbelief that it was "Gotham". They could've at least added a little more CGI to make it not look like Manhattan.

Also was Catwoman's friend supposed to be a cameo for Spoiler or something? She was literally in it just for like 3 scenes and that's all.

Great acting from Catwoman, Gordon and Alfred but omg everytime Batman/Bane spoke it still sounded so silly. I felt like because it was so "realistic" this time around, Batman just showing up in his costume looked absolutely ridiculous at some scenes, maybe cause they kept filming him in broad daylight.

Felt like they really could've cut a few characters to make the story stronger. there really didn't have to be so many subplots (Like the second commissioner)... oh well, at least it was still a bit entertaining.

Spoiler: show

wasn't her friend Holly Robinson?

[Xajii]

Spoiler: show

wasn't her friend Holly Robinson?

Yep. She was fine, though didn't really serve any purpose whatsoever. I guess it was just a cool nod to comic fans.

[Serra]

He does. As I stated earlier. I'm sure of that because I watched the whole trilogy together xD

I watched it before DKR too.. Ra's says the fear gas is the tool that will bring about the destruction, not something else later on. They unleash the gas, and "tomorrow, the world will watch in horror as its greatest city destroys itself." Doesn't sound like a do this, wait a while, then do something else kinda thing..

[Tyrath]

Being the start of something =/= wait a little while then do something. That wasn't the issue I was comparing the two on. I was saying the ending was going to be the same for both of their plans. Bane simply added giving the people hope and torturing Batman by making him watch his city tear itself apart.