No class in WI as teachers protest union-busting governor

[archibaldcrane]

It's a sweet game, and rich people have it fucking down.

[aurik]

That's why they're rich. If the poor weren't so damn lazy they'd have it down as well.

[archibaldcrane]

Met my girlfriend's parents this weekend, they came into town to help her move into her new apartment. Her mom is a retired (union) teacher's aide. Her dad is a former union carpenter who then worked for the department of the interior in the Bureau of Indian Affairs for decades, retired with benefits and now works as a commercial construction inspector.

They're from South Dakota, live in Albuquerque, NM, and are both republican fox-news watchers.

We got into a discussion about politics last night, starting with Wisconsin and branching out into Social Security, national debt, etc.

They parroted talking points about how the unions are out of control. I said that the unions in Wisconsin have agreed to an 8% pay decrease and that it's disingenuous for the governor to say the state is broke while he's giving out tax breaks to major corporations.

They said that creating a good environment for business is important to providing jobs and that tax breaks are a good portion of that. I pointed out that 2/3rds of Wisconsin corporations don't pay any business taxes, that Wisconsin has an unemployment rate well below the national average, and that trickle-down economics hasn't lead to any inflation-adjusted income gains for the bottom 90% in over 40 years.

Her mom asked how much in taxes is too much, implying that we're getting taxed way beyond anything we've ever seen before. I noted that the average person is paying a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than they have since 1950, and that these tax cuts are a big part of the reason we have so many unfunded liabilities.



It was a civil conversation with some measure of common ground. And I really slept like shit last night. Watching working class people, especially those who worked for decades as public servants like her parents, try to tear down other working class people using talking points pitched by politicians who actively undermine the middle class at the behest of the very rich, just made me sad.

[aurik]

Let's face it, in some sectors union employees truly are overpaid and immune to honest merit-based review which is definitely bad for business. They've successfully negotiated the death of companies in some cases because they earn so much and have such strong rights that the entity that is employing them can't make a business of it.

But the thing to do in that case is to fold up shop, fire them all, and start again fresh. Over time, you'll find that the unions that strike fair deals will survive, and unions that push too hard for unfair compensation & perks will die out.

So, if the public sector union workers in Wisconsin are earning too much and refuse to budge when it comes time to slash spending (which they have been quite willing to slash spending), then fire them and hire fresh--but don't be surprised when the new employees want to unionize when they feel they aren't getting a fair shake.

[archibaldcrane]

Let's face it, in some sectors union employees truly are overpaid and immune to honest merit-based review which is definitely bad for business. They've successfully negotiated the death of companies in some cases because they earn so much and have such strong rights that the entity that is employing them can't make a business of it.

But the thing to do in that case is to fold up shop, fire them all, and start again fresh. Over time, you'll find that the unions that strike fair deals will survive, and unions that push too hard for unfair compensation & perks will die out.

So, if the public sector union workers in Wisconsin are earning too much and refuse to budge when it comes time to slash spending (which they have been quite willing to slash spending), then fire them and hire fresh--but don't be surprised when the new employees want to unionize when they feel they aren't getting a fair shake.

Completely agree. Some unions would deserve what Walker is doing - just not the unions he's actually doing it to.

[Acturus]

Rick Unger at Forbes writes on how the claim that tax-payers are paying for public employee pensions is a lie:

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...oyee-pensions/

[archibaldcrane]

Rick Unger at Forbes writes on how the claim that tax-payers are paying for public employee pensions is a lie:

http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/20...oyee-pensions/

It's always been a bunch of number fuckery. Whether you pay the workers more and make them contribute more, or pay them less and make them contribute nothing - it's all the same. Comparisons between private sector contributions and public sector contributions in a vacuum is COMPLETELY meaningless.

[Rhinox]

The surprising thing about that article is the fact that it came from Forbes

[archibaldcrane]

Walker let in hundreds of lobbyists to the capitol (while keeping firefighters and policemen out) so they could cheer on his budget proposal speech this afternoon - he managed to keep the capitol building on lockdown just long enough to sneak his political allies in and keep additional protesters out for his speech. The man has no shame whatsoever - it's actually kind of refreshing.

[Acturus]

The surprising thing about that article is the fact that it came from Forbes

I don't know who Unger is, but opinion "blog" pieces are usually given more leeway than true news articles.

[Olo401]

Err... ok there Fox. I didn't know there were palm trees in Wisconsin:

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...wiprotests.jpg


Of course, this has started quite an internet meme.

Spoiler: show

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...tuff/OssRq.jpg



http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q...foxprotest.jpg

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/8...twisconsin.jpg

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/368/wiscontian.jpg

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9249/waco2.jpg



http://i55.tinypic.com/2rrwbdj.jpg

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5052/...e0f077b390.jpg




And my personal favorite:

http://www.the-ghetto.org/Miscellaneous/wisconsin.jpg

More pics available in the comments here: http://www.fark.com/comments/6000989...artid=67303968

[Not Kuno]

ok I lost it at the wc2 picture ahahahaha

[Talint]

Walker let in hundreds of lobbyists to the capitol (while keeping firefighters and policemen out) so they could cheer on his budget proposal speech this afternoon - he managed to keep the capitol building on lockdown just long enough to sneak his political allies in and keep additional protesters out for his speech. The man has no shame whatsoever - it's actually kind of refreshing.

You get what you vote for.

I look forward to convicted felon Rick Scott and what he plans to do with FL, myself.

[archibaldcrane]

It sounds very likely Walker will be recalled, but you can't recall a Wisconsin state official until he has been in office for a year. They'll start collecting the 600,000 needed signatures in November. By then, much of the damage may be done.

[Olo401]

It sounds very likely Walker will be recalled, but you can't recall a Wisconsin state official until he has been in office for a year. They'll start collecting the 600,000 needed signatures in November. By then, much of the damage may be done.

That's why they're also going after 8 of the GOP state senators, who were elected in 2008 and are eligible for recall right now.

[aurik]

What a giant waste of money this will all turn out to be.

[Olo401]

ok.. best one.

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n.../fauxnews2.jpg

[Melena]

Damnit, spaceballs one got me.

[Acturus]

You get what you vote for.

I look forward to convicted felon Rick Scott and what he plans to do with FL, myself.

No, not convicted. He got out before the investigation. Clearly he had nothing to do with it.

[Melchiah]

Surely they aren't going to get away with this little gem. Props for having the balls to deny the public access to their representatives though; I wouldn't have tried it.