Martial Arts training.

[Rhyis.]

lol, fantastic. I'm going to steal that if that's ok.

[Matthias]

Why does it not surprise me that someone who drops names like Brock Lesnar would start down the path of "best style for street fighting"? It wasn't specifically called out, but this post reeks of going that direction. The best self defense for a street fight is two shoes and quick legs to run the fuck away.

Oh come on Fqwghads I said come on Fhqwghads. The effective application of martial arts into self defense is a perfectly legitimate aspect of a martial arts discussion. If you want to extol the virtues of running the hell away by all means start a discussion about what cross country team to join or building a running regiment. But this is about martial arts i.e. fighting systems developed to prepare the trainee for situations when avoiding a fight is not feasible. So the application of different styles in street fights is a logical extension. Get over it.

[Dimmauk]

Ill say this, if you are fighting 1 on 1 then train for a ground fight, cause that is where the fight will wind up. Unless your stand up/takedown defense is good, then you beat their ass. If its multiple attackers, depending on how many and their age, then you run and get your licks in like Jackie Chan. Shit is situational. Best you can do, is think about senerios, and be prepared. Think about your weaknesses, body types that cause you problems, weapons defense, etc... Not one style will save your ass, but being prepared, and well trained will help.

[Max™]

This thread has been useful if nothing else comes of it but that ba-dum tssh avatar, that's fantastic.

Oh yeah, seriously, running is the best answer.


I don't care how tough you are, there is a tougher motherfucker out there, unless you're like a 7'6" 440 lb black belt like Calvin Lane:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_368-O0_gRC...alvin-lane.jpg

You're going to get your ass kicked sooner or later.

Ancient secret for winning any fight: raise your right leg, rotate on your left foot, and put your right foot down behind you, with your toe pointing away from your opponent.

Now raise your left left, rotate to face away from your opponent, and place your left foot down ahead of your right foot. Repeat this rapidly, if they REALLY wanna fight, they'll chase you.

Keep running for a mile or so, then, once you see them start to get tired, turn around and beat them up.

[Fhqwghads]

Oh come on Fqwghads I said come on Fhqwghads. The effective application of martial arts into self defense is a perfectly legitimate aspect of a martial arts discussion. If you want to extol the virtues of running the hell away by all means start a discussion about what cross country team to join or building a running regiment. But this is about martial arts i.e. fighting systems developed to prepare the trainee for situations when avoiding a fight is not feasible. So the application of different styles in street fights is a logical extension. Get over it.

Self-defense is one thing, when you can't avoid it. The point is I have NEVER seen a situation yet where it can't be avoided. And you're making stupid assumptions that martial arts are a system for kicking ass when you can't get away. In the incredibly rare instance this may happen, sure, it can help. But seriously, how many people find themselves confronted by someone ready to throw down AND they're cornered or some other circumstance prevents them from running the fuck away...? Common sense says: hardly anyone, hardly ever. So to equate martial arts with defending yourself on the street is retarded. That is NOT what it is for. It's for discipline, exercise, competition, stress relief, and a myriad of other things. Helping someone kick ass in a street fight it is not.

The application of different styles in a street fight is the fucking dumbest, most ignorant, retarded direction this thread could take. You want to argue the point over what's best in a street fight go to sherdog and argue with the morons over there. The bottom line is there is no best style for street fighting, because there are too many variables, and you don't know whether or not the guy prepared to assault you has a knife, a gun, or a dozen buddies close by ready to stomp your skull until your brain squirts out of your ears and eye sockets.

[Chips]

I have no experience with either but it seems like bjj has more no gi stuff

This isn't entirely accurate. Judo always takes place using the gi, and almost every throw/choke involves gi leverage. With BJJ, you can do either gi or no gi, but to advance within the belt system you need to be proficient with the gi. I'd say they're about equal.

[Woozie]

At my MMA gym, we never use a gi for BJJ, but that could be because it's an MMA gym and not a BJJ gym. We always use a gi for Judo. My judo instructor says it would be useful if we were fighting wealthy business men in expensive suits because we could grab on to those like a gi (seriously, he really said that).

[Dimmauk]

What you the best fighting style to use if your Girlfriend was kidnapped by an evil Kung fu bad guy, and you had to fight through a five level building to save her?

[Max™]

http://www.filehurricane.com/viewert...bba36c13e8.jpg

[Woozie]

What you the best fighting style to use if your Girlfriend was kidnapped by an evil Kung fu bad guy, and you had to fight through a five level building to save her?

Tae Kwon Do was pretty useful when this happened to me.

[Dimmauk]

I wonder if someone has ever done a gun kata at a martial arts tournament? They could use guns at make popping noises. LOL

[Rhyis.]

Gun kata is definitely the ultimate martial art. Get all John Woo on peoples asses. Forget what I said early. Fuck Judo.

[Blarg]

This isn't entirely accurate. Judo always takes place using the gi, and almost every throw/choke involves gi leverage. With BJJ, you can do either gi or no gi, but to advance within the belt system you need to be proficient with the gi. I'd say they're about equal.

I know that but it seems a lot of the moves in BJJ don't rely so heavily on using the gi. Obviously lapel and collar chokes are gi only moves but a keylock is basically the same gi or no gi. In judo that seems to be less the case.

[Dimmauk]

This thread has been useful if nothing else comes of it but that ba-dum tssh avatar, that's fantastic.

Oh yeah, seriously, running is the best answer.


I don't care how tough you are, there is a tougher motherfucker out there, unless you're like a 7'6" 440 lb black belt like Calvin Lane:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_368-O0_gRC...alvin-lane.jpg

You're going to get your ass kicked sooner or later.

Ancient secret for winning any fight: raise your right leg, rotate on your left foot, and put your right foot down behind you, with your toe pointing away from your opponent.

Now raise your left left, rotate to face away from your opponent, and place your left foot down ahead of your right foot. Repeat this rapidly, if they REALLY wanna fight, they'll chase you.

Keep running for a mile or so, then, once you see them start to get tired, turn around and beat them up.

That guy makes Shaq look like a little kid.

[Matthias]

Self-defense is one thing, when you can't avoid it. The point is I have NEVER seen a situation yet where it can't be avoided.

Then you can consider yourself fortunate. But if you're assuming that because it's never happened to you it should never happen to anyone else either, well then you should also consider yourself ignorant.

And you're making stupid assumptions that martial arts are a system for kicking ass when you can't get away.

Prove me wrong. Prove to me that the punches, kicks, throws, and holds were not designed for self defense.

In the incredibly rare instance this may happen, sure, it can help. But seriously, how many people find themselves confronted by someone ready to throw down AND they're cornered or some other circumstance prevents them from running the fuck away...? Common sense says: hardly anyone, hardly ever.

Well a few thoughts:

1) "Common sense" is incredibly subjective, commonality being dependent on the group you are surveying and I'd be very curious from what research you are citing these stats. My guess is you're assuming the commonality of the sense you ascribe to the basis that it's what you happen to believe, which is silly.

Put another way, what exactly defines a circumstance which prevents you from running away? That's really up to the individual, and I guess for you that list is incredibly narrow and that's fine. But again it's, as you like to say, "retarded" to project your own standards on others, who may, for whatever their individual thinking is, see a reason to stand and fight. For you to assume it's retarded because you don't get it yourself is... well, retarded.

2) Note that you did not say 'never'. As in, yes it does happen, rare as it is, it does happen. Considering the potentially traumatic nature of fights, I like knowing that if that rare instance occurs, I have at least some preparation for it.

So to equate martial arts with defending yourself on the street is retarded. That is NOT what it is for. It's for discipline, exercise, competition, stress relief, and a myriad of other things. Helping someone kick ass in a street fight it is not.

And again you are basing this on what...? Your authority on what martial arts were designed for was granted by...?

The application of different styles in a street fight is the fucking dumbest, most ignorant, retarded direction this thread could take. You want to argue the point over what's best in a street fight go to sherdog and argue with the morons over there..

Why bother you're providing me with all the moron I need right here.

The bottom line is there is no best style for street fighting, because there are too many variables, and you don't know whether or not the guy prepared to assault you has a knife, a gun, or a dozen buddies close by ready to stomp your skull until your brain squirts out of your ears and eye sockets.

Um... ok... once again a few thoughts.

1) I never said there was any one style that is best for street fighting, in fact I recall very clearly saying that it really depends on how you approach it. So if this comment was placed as some dispute against something I said well, it didn't.

2) You just made a comment about what is or is not the best style for street fighting... after you just said in the very same post that a discussion about the application of different styles to street fighting is "the fucking dumbest, most ignorant, retarded direction this thread could take"? Nicely done. Again, no need to go to sherdog for morons.

3) So your logic here is, "You can't be prepared for everything... so best is to just prepare for nothing and assume you'll be able to worm out of any situation"?

That's... oh how should I put it...

retarded.

Works.

[Rhyis.]

Gun Fu duel off, go!

[Woozie]

For anyone considering Gun Kata, I would like to point out that their tournaments have the highest injury rate of all sports. I'd avoid sparring at all if I were you.

[Fhqwghads]

Then you can consider yourself fortunate. But if you're assuming that because it's never happened to you it should never happen to anyone else either, well then you should also consider yourself ignorant.

Did I say it never happens to people? No, I sure didn't. I said it hardly happens to anyone. If this happened on a regular basis the majority of the public would be in combat martial arts training and packing a weapon of some sort. It's ridiculous to think that's what people are training for.

To be of the mentality that "martial arts for self-defense" is the number one reason people do it is disingenuous. It can be helpful, but of the hundreds of people I've trained with, not one of them has ever said "I do this for self-defense." The trainers have never said "this method is great for self-defense." Out of everyone I've ever met in my 4+ decades of life on this planet, not one of them has ever said they were cornered and forced into fighting. So in my experience, it hasn't happened to anyone I know, and nobody I know has seriously trained martial arts specifically for self-defense. So with that in mind, I'm confident when I state that being assaulted is very rare. The only time I hear about this is when I watch the news.

Prove me wrong. Prove to me that the punches, kicks, throws, and holds were not designed for self defense.

Have you ever even taken any martial arts, outside of a McDojo? Plenty of places will advertise that their martial art is great for self-defense because it's a selling point. Anyone who's actually done it for a while will understand that it's not very useful for self-defense in this day and age. It can help, as I stated, but anyone who trains a martial art for the sole purpose of self-defense is doing nothing but taking a placebo.

Well a few thoughts:

1) "Common sense" is incredibly subjective, commonality being dependent on the group you are surveying and I'd be very curious from what research you are citing these stats. My guess is you're assuming the commonality of the sense you ascribe to the basis that it's what you happen to believe, which is silly.

Put another way, what exactly defines a circumstance which prevents you from running away? That's really up to the individual, and I guess for you that list is incredibly narrow and that's fine. But again it's, as you like to say, "retarded" to project your own standards on others, who may, for whatever their individual thinking is, see a reason to stand and fight. For you to assume it's retarded because you don't get it yourself is... well, retarded.

2) Note that you did not say 'never'. As in, yes it does happen, rare as it is, it does happen. Considering the potentially traumatic nature of fights, I like knowing that if that rare instance occurs, I have at least some preparation for it.

Common sense dictates that outside of a controlled environment, aka a gym or a ring where there are some sort of rules in place, all bets are off. Sure, it's up to the individual to draw their own line in the sand on whether they fight or get the fuck out. People who wind up with lacerations, stab wounds, gunshot wounds, and blunt force trauma are the ones who think they can handle themselves. If you don't think common sense dictates running the fuck away when confronted by someone ready to assault you, and instead you're going to "man up" and fight, then you 100% deserve whatever the hell happens to you, and you lack the type of common sense I'm talking about. Fighting on the street is the absolute last thing anyone with a brain in their head should ever do, and should only happen if there is no alternative whatsoever. Again, will knowing some martial arts help in the incredibly unlikely event you find yourself forced into a fight? Sure. It's like insurance: great to have when some idiot plows into you. The big difference is if you're assaulted it's not an accident, so you need martial arts for self-defense even LESS than you need insurance.

To be specific, the only time I can see NOT running away is if:

1) There is no escape route.
2) Someone is with one or more people who would not be able to get away (children, wife, etc.)

Other than that, the best self-defense is a good pair of running shoes and two legs.

And again you are basing this on what...? Your authority on what martial arts were designed for was granted by...?

And your assertion that it's for self-defense is based on what? Bruce Lee movies? The Karate Kid?

Um... ok... once again a few thoughts.

1) I never said there was any one style that is best for street fighting, in fact I recall very clearly saying that it really depends on how you approach it. So if this comment was placed as some dispute against something I said well, it didn't.

2) You just made a comment about what is or is not the best style for street fighting... after you just said in the very same post that a discussion about the application of different styles to street fighting is "the fucking dumbest, most ignorant, retarded direction this thread could take"? Nicely done. Again, no need to go to sherdog for morons.

3) So your logic here is, "You can't be prepared for everything... so best is to just prepare for nothing and assume you'll be able to worm out of any situation"?

1) And I disagree with any approach except getting the fuck out of dodge. Anything else is stupid and isn't worth bringing up because it almost never happens to anyone. All it does is start people down an ignorant conversation on "my martial art can beat up your marital art." Or worse yet, setting someone up for a false sense of security and a harsh reality check when they get the shit kicked out of them because they thought that Tie Fong Buttkick would be able to fend off an attacker.

2) If you consider "running away" a martial art for street fighting then guilty as charged. I never said shit about which martial art is best for fighting in a street fight, other than don't fucking do it. Feel free to point out where I said a goddamn thing about a particular martial art being good for street fighting.

3) Pretty much. You think you're prepared enough for all the unknown variables when some nutjob decides he's going to assault you? Which martial art is going to help you when he pulls out a 9mm and shoots you in the face because you think you're a fucking bad-ass and are going to stand your ground? Again, in the extremely unlikely scenario that a person finds themselves in a situation they cannot get away from, then martial arts might be able to assist them in making the best of a life threatening situation. But to say "martial arts are for self-defense" is a dumb thing to say, because it's not, except to people who eat up that kind of marketing.

If you're too stupid to comprehend that running away from a street fight is > any martial art, then I'm not going to argue the point further. It's an idiotic conversation and I've made all my points. Knock yourself out if you feel the need to reply and defend your dumb position, champ.

[Dimmauk]

This discussion reminds me of this.

[Slott]

I was always taught to avoid confrontation at all costs. Instructor would always say that if there was something shady coming down the road, cross to the other side of the street, and self defense applications are only to be used if there is no option of removing myself from the situation. That being said, what you're typically taught in a self defense situation is not what will actually happen - kind of like college...the material you're taught doesn't always have relevance to your life, however there is some underlying knowledge or skill set to be learned from the exercise. If someone threw a punch at me, I have a better understanding of how to avoid/dodge/block/counter their attack than if I had zero training at all.

If you don't believe that martial arts helps your self defense skill set, then you had bad instruction. While something may not always pan out as punch -> block -> kick -> punch throat, my training allows me to block/dodge most attacks thrown at me that would not have been possible prior to my training. There's a level of awareness it builds, as well as a confidence - this confidence and level of awareness may allow you to dodge an attack and punch someone in the throat, leaving you enough time to get out of the area. It may also lessen the impact of getting hit by a punch or a kick. It's something you become accustomed to...getting hit in the chest or face won't come as such a shock if you've been conditioned in what it feels like. If someone were to pick a fight with me, do I feel like I could defend myself or the ones I'm with? Probably, but I'd never pick a fight over avoiding a confrontation.