Letter from the Producer, IV (02/28/2011)

[Elrina]

Depends on how you view it, I suppose. Perspective. You could choose to view Monk and Thief as something separate from Pugilist, and White Mage and Black Mage as something separate from Conjurer... or not.

If they're specializations, then it's always Pugilist, it's always Conjurer. "Monk" is just the designation for the specialization of Pugilist that focuses on hand-to-hand combat and chi related techniques, because Monk is a comfortable term that FF fans are used to. Same with Thief, a comfortable designation for a specialization of Pugilist, because that's the class you're still going to be playing. White Mage is Conjurer's "healing" specialization, while Black Mage is it's "nuking" specialization. That's the entire point behind the idea of making them specializations rather than separate advanced classes/jobs, which is why I said it's probably a better and more likely idea.

It doesn't render the classes obsolete, it just takes the different parts of them and focuses on them differently, and calls them by names that FF fans know and recognize. That's why there isn't a "Pugilist" or "Conjurer" specialization, because for those classes one isn't necessary. For some classes there can be, if there are components to the class that are different than something that would fit in a specialization that could be named after something "traditional". But generally, the idea as I imagine it, is to simply specialize each current class in a way that gives it defined roles, and then name those defined roles after old school FF job names. We will still be playing the same classes even with those specializations. They're a tool to enhance class definition, uniqueness, because of the shitty bland crap that failed to deliver at and since release.



Oh, and if you want to get into opinions like "keep them all relevant" and "making stuff obsolete is killing options", I'm for killing the entire fucking armory system. I think they should remove the current classes entirely. I think they shouldn't have been options in the first place, because they're fucking awful. Them existing is what's fucking stupid. But, failing that, specializing or evolving or advancing into traditional jobs with defined roles would be my second choice, and I'm absolutely happy that it seems that they're going to go through with it.

[Elcura]

Yes, it is perspective, after all it is my opinion and perspective about things. I feel that given some thought, you could differentiate PUG and CON from WHM, BLM, THF and MNK, and make them all their own classes that can play together and advance (if you go the advanced job route...).

I'm not against specialising if it takes the class in different direction, because you still keep the class and the advancement you made up to that point is still relevant, just expanded upon. I was never against that (even if that's how I might have come across) in the first place.

The idea of advanced jobs that don't take from the class more than what you did to unlock it is what I'm against. Because that's killing a class. That's what I'm against, because it's a fucking awful idea.

As for your last point, a grand reset would only work if they reset the entire world, lore etc etc. That would make them lose so much money and time and just be unfeasible. At this point, killing the current classes is just not a smart move. Not design wise or production wise.

Fixing the battle system and making classes more identifiable should be higher on the list than some reset bullshit.

[Kurokikaze]

Do we have to resort to WoW terms for everything...? Why is such a simple concept so hard to understand:

Paladin -> Protection / Holy / Retribution
Hunter -> Beastmaster / Marksman / Survival

The base classes are still Paladin and Hunter but what defines them is the spec. Now let's take the same and use FF names.

Gladiator -> Paladin / Dark Knight
Archer -> Ranger / Musketeer

While the name changes with the spec: You could say you play a Marksman Hunter but it doesn't make sense to say a Ranger Archer. It's still the same fucking thing.

You still use abilities that were obtained from the base class but your bread n' butter and eventually your role in the party would come from the spec.

[Elrina]

Yes, it is perspective, after all it is my opinion and perspective about things. I feel that given some thought, you could differentiate PUG and CON from WHM, BLM, THF and MNK, and make them all their own classes that can play together and advance (if you go the advanced job route...).

I'm not against specialising if it takes the class in different direction, because you still keep the class and the advancement you made up to that point is still relevant, just expanded upon. I was never against that (even if that's how I might have come across) in the first place.

The idea of advanced jobs that don't take from the class more than what you did to unlock it is what I'm against. Because that's killing a class. That's what I'm against, because it's a fucking awful idea.

As for your last point, a grand reset would only work if they reset the entire world, lore etc etc. That would make them lose so much money and time and just be unfeasible. At this point, killing the current classes is just not a smart move. Not design wise or production wise.

Fixing the battle system and making classes more identifiable should be higher on the list than some reset bullshit.

Man, I'm sure I said somewhere that I was half asleep when I wrote that shit yesterday. What I was talking about is shit I'd personally prefer over other stuff, but even that was just me typing as I thought and then passing out afterward.

I had a huge argument with a friend of mine early morning today over advanced jobs, because if I have to level one thing to reach something else, imo, it should be better, an advancement, on what I had to level to reach it. I shouldn't have to level one class to be able to start over from scratch on another class that isn't any functionally superior to the first one, because then other people can choose classes they like from the start, but I have to waste time dicking around before I'm even allowed to play the class(es) I'm interested in. If there were advanced jobs, I think they should either be superior, be available from level 1, or begin at the rank/level you unlock them at so that you aren't going backwards in order to be able to play them.

And I agree, it's just not feasible at this point. I realize that. It was mostly frustration, QQing, etc. But it's why I probably have to cast my vote on specializations of the type Kuro just cited and I described, a fully fleshed out spec system for each class, not just something cobbled together or that has some gimmick to it to fit it into the current system somehow. It wouldn't involve starting over from scratch, just modifying what's there already and adding to it, the "overhaul" they speak of. That would allow each class to specialize in different directions that already exist in the class, without killing any of them or rendering them or people's current progress obsolete. Why care if it changes your class title to something "traditional" while using a specific specialization when you're still using the source class in order to have it. Like Kuro said, it's still the same thing at that point no matter what you call it.


Edit: Really wasn't trying to be argumentative originally, I'm about to go get some sleep right now actually because I've been up all night again (although not nearly as tired as I was yesterday when posting). I'm sorry if I came off badly.

[Elcura]

It looks like we've reached an understanding at least.

And I've never played WoW Kuro, so those words mean... less than nothing to me. I still think there's a possibility to keep the original job line going.

If PUG spec'd to MNK or THF, both MNK and THF would have a number of shared abilities that come from the PUG line, while getting their own unique abilities that focus the class. You keep the original class intact (which I think is important, but not majorly necessary) while still having specializations and all that old-ass traditional bullshit.

I just find the idea generally that old-classes are necessary to recognize FF or have fun, but maybe I'm overly optimistic about the power of design. I dunno how good or bad XIV's design team is... but if there's one thing I do know, it's that no matter how good the design team is, it means nothing without the right director/producer.

So many good ideas can get thrown away because one douchebag says no.

[Kurokikaze]

It looks like we've reached an understanding at least.

And I've never played WoW Kuro, so those words mean... less than nothing to me. I still think there's a possibility to keep the original job line going.

If PUG spec'd to MNK or THF, both MNK and THF would have a number of shared abilities that come from the PUG line, while getting their own unique abilities that focus the class. You keep the original class intact (which I think is important, but not majorly necessary) while still having specializations and all that old-ass traditional bullshit.

Ah I see... And thats exactly what I said. Unless you meant that maybe they should let you continue to play as PUG unspecced? Well I don't see why not but the point is to make you go a certain route so that you can learn abilities that better suite the playstyle that you're most comfortable with. Using the WoW example; PUG would be incredibly weak and ultimately not worth it compared to a fully specced THF or MNK.

I'm also of the opinion that FFXIV should have FF class names so that it's more recognizable to its players. Still trying to wrap my head around wtf is a marauder?

[Tomino]

I'd love to see something like this:

Equipping a Sword changes you to Gladiator (like it's now), you retain all your skills since it made sense at the beginning of FF14 as it does now. So you can Cure, Stoneskin, Second Wind, etc, a perfect setup for solo experiences.

Then your party gathers and it's time to get serious : you need to enhance your specific role and that's why you "spec" into Paladin. It could happen by equippng a special Paladin related armour, or maybe by equipping a certain specific sword. Either way, becoming Paladin enhances certain traits while nerfing others, as well as giving you access to unique skills.
One huge nerf could be making skills from other classes unavailable, since it still kills class identity.


I do agree that basic classes should not become trash once you're 30, and that's why they could use them as "jack of all trades" choices for whatever solo activity you prefer, making traditional FF jobs something you use in group content / endgame.
This would still improve old FF11 because in Vanadiel you couldnt (easily) turn your Dark Knight into something solo friendly once party's over.

[Elcura]

Ah I see... And thats exactly what I said. Unless you meant that maybe they should let you continue to play as PUG unspecced? Well I don't see why not but the point is to make you go a certain route so that you can learn abilities that better suite the playstyle that you're most comfortable with. Using the WoW example; PUG would be incredibly weak and ultimately not worth it compared to a fully specced THF or MNK.

I'm also of the opinion that FFXIV should have FF class names so that it's more recognizable to its players. Still trying to wrap my head around wtf is a marauder?

Well, possibility of letting you grow unspecced is still there, if there are "PUG only" abilities that further strengthen the basic class, but that in itself is sort of like a specialization so it can be kept in.

But no, the idea was that if you have a level 50 REQ to get MNK and THF, you can choose one and there would be abilities from a theoretical PUG tree.

Like, level 55 MNK and THF would get a unique ability, like stealing or chi blast, but at 57 both jobs might get something from that PUG tree at the same time, like an ability to evade more or some WS that deals more damage from the back. Essentially you would have 2 routes in MNK and THF, but they share common skills with PUG. It's more like if you choose a spec, you'd either go MNK/PUG or THF/PUG, but the PUG part is still around.

At this point, all they have are options. I think as long as it's designed right, anything could work.

And a Marauder is basically a mercenary/outlaw who makes a living from doing piratey shit. If you look at the MRD guild, you'd see something to that effect.

@ Tomino

Rather than nerf cross-class skills, I'd rather they strengthen identity by making the job that has these skills originally better at using them someway. I love the idea of being able to get defensive abilities from another class and then use them competently to aid my survival. All the while the abilities are about as useful as they are basically on the right job, so they can be used, but if I wanted to use second wind on PUG, I can get more out of it some how.

The armoury system is a good concept poorly implemented, deep down it's a good idea, but along the way something went wrong. While I'm all for change, I'd like to see how they would've fixed the existing problem.

But hey, you can't be precious with your work, but I wonder how precious players can be with a product?

[Biggie]

Except they express wanting to change the names to more traditional ones, stop talking out of your ass.

Call it what you will, talking out my ass or whatever. But, after reading all the more current interviews (and they seem to almost contradict each other) I still feel the same. Current classes and names will be balanced, but names left the same. We will then (when they are damn good and ready, and feel classes are balanced) see advanced classes with the more traditional names. This, imo, make sense and I'm sure is a hell of a lot less work then going back and redoing everything about the current classes. Again, just my opinion, and I guess we will just have to wait and see how it plays out.

[Grey Jorildyn]

I really feel we need to move past the name thing. A label on a class isn't going to define it anymore than the name of this game defines it as a final fantasy game. IMO SE has better shit to do, like balance classes, than worry about redoing entire quest lines for the current jobs. Keep the names the same and get a move on.

[Mioko Lockheart]

Personally i don't care either way about the names but i must admit when i play FFIV i am still playing Final Fantasy i would rather hear Black Mage or White Mage instead of Conjurer and Thm or Monk instead of Pugalist. I agree though fix the battles system and class uniquness before we can complaign about names