Chess

[aurik]

Alright, I'll cave and learn the game then.

What I'd really recommend for learning is to start by playing against an AI on a small board (9x9 or 13x13) to get accustomed to the rules. We can also answer your questions here. You can find a nice online AI for go at eidogo: (You probably want to give yourself handicap stones to start.)

http://eidogo.com/#gnugo-9 (9x9)
http://eidogo.com/#gnugo-13 (13x13)
http://eidogo.com/#gnugo (standard board size)

There's also lots of good starting references online, at sensei's library (linked above) and various other places.

Once you know the rules, you can find games easily on a free online service called KGS: www.gokgs.com There's a java-based client, you can play or watch games as a guest or sign up for free. The great thing about go is that since the handicap system is functional to a fairly wide skill range, there's always someone to play.

I would agree with the reading/fighting spirit being the most important, at times the opening sequences are not applicable, but knowing them to know when to deviate to your opponents detriment is beneficial, but that kind of play doesn't matter much till 1d+

I find that nothing's more intimidating than an opponent 1 or 2 stones stronger than you who plays like he barely knows joseki, because you know he's incredible at fighting to be ranked that high.

Look me up on KGS! I often hang out and kibitz games even if I'm too exhausted / busy to play.

[Cadsuane]

So hay! Cadsooaine, redhotpawn, fucking play me faggots. Correspondence games hardly tax your undoubtedly busy schedules.

[ZarakiKujata]

I find that nothing's more intimidating than an opponent 1 or 2 stones stronger than you who plays like he barely knows joseki, because you know he's incredible at fighting to be ranked that high.

Look me up on KGS! I often hang out and kibitz games even if I'm too exhausted / busy to play.

Haha, I love kibitzing, are TheCaptain's games entertaining still? And I'll bother you in a few days, have a paper, exam, and debate tournament to get through first..

[Cadsuane]

Woozie lies. He doesn't suck at chess at all.

[Blarg]

chess sharked

[Maguspk]

I once spent a few hours reading about Go, about eyes and double eyes and lines and territories and all sorts of stuff. I barely remember it all, it's a pretty damn complex game that looks deceptively simple. I'm going to have to give those AI's a go and see how I fair.

[Titanss]

who's awake lets play.. how the fuck do you find people tho

[pahnphoenix]

i play on chesscube as char_aznable, but online i only play bullet (10sec+1sec or 1min), though i'll play 3min tournaments, and any time limit unrated (if i'm playing unrated, chances are good that i'm drunk). chesscube also has fischer random / chess960 if you don't like opening memorization.

i'm 1950~ at chesscube, but i'm not that good... just very fast. besides for playing, i learn from watching videos:

kasparov my story, long series, very good insight from kasparov. applicable well below the master level because he does bring up a fair amount of "why this is strong, in principle" type ideas.

GM henrik danielsen's live blitz games and instructional videos

kingscrusher on youtube, strong internet blitz player, decent over the board player. runs a chess correspondence site. he posts way too many videos, but is rather philosophical about chess, in that he's always trying to find principles. "this attack is strong because [...]." "in this position i should play for X because of Y." etc.

p.s. if you challenge me on chesscube, hopefully i'll be nice, but alcohol is a hell of a drug. another edit: on chesscube you can friend request people so you can challenge them or whatever. feel free to do that to me, i accept all friend requests because they seem to be meaningless.

edit: part of why i only play bullet is that people often cheat with engines online. waste of time. plus, my attention span is not good. focus, great. wait 1min+ for a move to happen, i can do without that.

[ZarakiKujata]

I once spent a few hours reading about Go, about eyes and double eyes and lines and territories and all sorts of stuff. I barely remember it all, it's a pretty damn complex game that looks deceptively simple. I'm going to have to give those AI's a go and see how I fair.

I believe the phrase used to describe the game is:

"It takes 20 minutes to learn and a life time to master"

[Woozie]

Woozie lies. He doesn't suck at chess at all.

Trust me, I do. If you don't believe me, ask Rocl, or any of my ex girlfriends. Or just be patient. You'll see for yourself soon enough.

[Cadsuane]

Well I know I've won this game (unless something stupid happens) but you didn't make it precisely easy

[ZarakiKujata]

Trust me, I do. If you don't believe me, ask Rocl, or any of my ex girlfriends. Or just be patient. You'll see for yourself soon enough.

You have a chess board in your kitchen?

[Ashmada]

Used to play Chess, but I, too, got put off by the whole "learning a lot of openings" part.

Another fun game in the Chess family is Xiangqi (chinese chess), it relies less on memory and is harder for AIs than classic Chess, but isn't very intuitive for a Chess player to learn (some pieces are limited to parts of the board, the Horse moves like a Knight but can be blocked...).

Or the recent Chess variation, Arimaa. That game works by animals pushing and pulling others into traps and rabbits trying to reach the opposite side of the board.

[aurik]

Ah yes, the other reason to play Go over Chess -- computers just aren't very good at the game, and it is very obvious the style difference between AI and human players. So you can be confident that you're not playing against a computer through a human proxy.

[Norellicus]

I understand the rules of Go (the handicap, capturing, etc; how territory control is determined is still a bit fuzzy) but it seems like it's impossible to find good resources for teaching you how to play; like anything I've looked at that gives tutorials and stuff makes no effort to explain the reasoning behind the moves it guides you through, barring a few specific cases (like driving your opponent toward the wall to make it easier to capture or cut off, or setting up eyes to protect your groups).

I want to learn it but all the tools I've tried working with just leave me feeling like I'm going through the motions because they said so, not because it makes tactical sense. :/

[Mizango]

Woozie lies. He doesn't suck at chess at all.

I could have told you that. I remember talking to him one night as I was heading to bed, he was up and online playing chess lol. Woozie is low key and is whips on you lol.

[Mizango]

He's modest.

[Norellicus]

Also Cadsuane challenge inc

I make no guarantees about being any good

[aurik]

I understand the rules of Go (the handicap, capturing, etc; how territory control is determined is still a bit fuzzy) but it seems like it's impossible to find good resources for teaching you how to play; like anything I've looked at that gives tutorials and stuff makes no effort to explain the reasoning behind the moves it guides you through, barring a few specific cases (like driving your opponent toward the wall to make it easier to capture or cut off, or setting up eyes to protect your groups).

I want to learn it but all the tools I've tried working with just leave me feeling like I'm going through the motions because they said so, not because it makes tactical sense. :/

That's Go. The rule set is pretty simple, but the strategy to the game is exceptionally deep.

There's a lot of heuristics that you can use to improve your play in a naive manner: corners before sides before center, keep your groups connected and your opponent's groups separated, attack weak groups for profit, play away from strength, attack from the weaker side, etc etc etc etc, but they're simply heuristics and often they disagree with each other.

The best way to learn it is to play, and develop a "feel" for which heuristic you should use at a given time.

I'm fairly good at these kind of games, and I've played for probably a full year when you add up all the time where I've been actively playing, but I can still find plenty of random people against whom I wouldn't stand a chance even if they allowed me to put down 6+ stones to start the game.

[Norellicus]

Yeah I don't know if I can do that lol, I hate wandering blindly through a game, especially a strategy one. It's why I don't play arcade fighters, all I come away from that with no matter how hard I try is "I pushed buttons and stuff happened". I need to be able to understand what I did and where I went wrong in order to improve.