Demystifying bst jug pet effectiveness

[geno3302]

wow the miss information on SMN is amazing...
All Physical BPs can crit, the damage variance comes from their M (Multiplier) value and the number of hits. Garuda does exceptionally well because P.Claws is a 3 hit attack and the first hit has a M value of 10 (every hit after gets a M value of 2 for avatars), the combined total (14) from all hits is higher then any other BP.

All avatars are BLM/BLM for stat calculation, save for Carbuncle.

As for stats doing things to BPs, other then INT for Magical and STR for Physical there's no way to tell since no gear exists that would let us test it.
Edit: However the equations don't point to any extra stat mods
These are 2 really good posts on the collected data, or you can just go wiki it.
Post 1
Post 2
Wiki

[Kegsay]

Should be noted that the 2nd post above assumed that PDIF used the same calculations as PCs, which isn't true. At the time of testing for base D back before cap rises and Atmas, it was more 'useful' to express D in terms of level and monster VIT. Now that we can indeed alter pet raw attributes, it would be possible to make a more accurate D calculation.

BP wise, the M multiplier model works really well, but is very hard to test on multiple hits. Predator claws success is as geno said, the BP itself has a slightly higher M value for the first hit. When you land P.Claws for say 200 damage instead of a normal 1500 or 2000, that's because the crucial first hit with its massive M value missed.

The overall conclusion from all of the work I did on Avatars was 'the best way to improve physical damage is to either lower the monster's defence or raise your avatars level (because raising level increases raw stats). Of course, this work was done before cap rises and Abyssea, so when people said "hey guys, STR+ atmas are AMAZING for avatars!" it confirmed my work wasn't a complete waste of time. I've personally lost interest in testing the ins and outs of avatars for a while now, but it would be pretty easy to test whether or not AGI+ and junk do anything for avatars by using atmas and a sound methodology. As for stat calculation, the avatars job does indeed change (WHM=Carby, BLM=Celestials) due to the existence of certain traits at the same level as said jobs. Remember though, stat calculation is the product of not only job but race too, so I personally think there is an 'avatar' race which can then neatly clean up issues like Weapon Rank and shit which just don't exist for avatars.

[geno3302]

Oh right, forgot about abyssea X_X If there is a stat mods I can say, at least for the big ones, VIT and INT do crap if anything at all. The increase from STR however is crazy.

I would be interested in doing some testing to find the new ATT and D values, how would you recommend I do it?

[Kegsay]

Attack value is a moot point, and would need to do pretty much everything I've done on PDIF all over again and use that as a basis for another model, which is silly when attack doesn't help with damage much at all. D values would need to be done on capped PDIF monsters, which you won't find in abyssea. So you can't really test in abyssea for either of those.

STR/DEX/etc values can be done by fighting the same level monsters (verify using /check) and obtaining a spread of damage (min/max is all that counts). Compare with and without atma. If there's a difference, it has helped. Since I imagine you're wondering about stats w.r.t BPs, you'll need to do BPs instead of normal attacks for your spread of damage. Since PDIF will be uncapped, the sample size will need to be rather large (roughly 200 with and 200 without will give a fairly good idea). Of course, the BP needs to be single hit. You will also notice in these 200 BPs that there's 2 clusters, the 2nd cluster being the 'mythical' critical bps. These should be ignored. From this, if there's a difference, you can see how much damage has been added by using an atma. You could then either use the Lv75 Celestial PDIF calcs on my LJ to find the increase and therefore any possible WSC modifiers (e.g. AGI 60%) but bear in mind the LJ calcs were not designed for that purpose and were only valid for the monsters I tested at Lv75.

[Xilk]

the difference with bst pets is that Attack and base damage are the most important to figure out. BST pets do most their damage from melee hits. If you stack attack on via gear or atma, you notice the difference. Perhaps the fSTR component is much higher on bst than avatars and the attack is not so high.

A quick check of my existing numbers show the pdif max and min match the 4.0 and 4.2 that you found with avatars. I used the melee hi/lows to check this. Since the crit high/lows have the +8% bonus. it easy matches the 4.0. 4.2

when I plug these numbers back in to see the Base + fSTR I'm seeing rather uniform numbers.

Pet		Level	Base + fSTR (avg)
AudaciousAnna 	88~90	117
BloodclawShasra	90	118
BugeyedBroncha	90	118
ChopsueyChucky	75	91
CourierCarrie	75	90
DipperYuly	88~90	111
DiscreetLouise	88~90	110
FatsoFargann	88~90	116
LuckyLulush	88~90	116
MailbusterCetas	88~90	116
NurseryNazuna	86	116
PrestoJulio	88~90	117
SwiftSieghard	88~90	117

this is more uniform than I expected. I'm guessing the base damage will actually be equal for pets of same level and same job.
BST pets spawn at a variable level. the only cases in this test that are not so are nazuna, Chucky, Carrie, Broncha, and Shasra. This seems that if the job is the same the maximum potential for melee for bst pets is the same. Attack is where the main differences will be.

Yuly is a thf
Merle is MNK
Louise is just different (dunno yet)

I need a bit more testing to to confirm the level differences. I use hp to confirm jug level and run the tests again for a few of these.
Otherwise I just need to check/compare attack for higher level mobs.

Stacking Stout Arm, baying moon, and stronghold I was not able to cap attack in abyssea konschtat. The lowest level for vision's mobs is somewhere around 72~74 i believe. Maybe if I choose some really squishy mobs like blms or something and finish 2x magian axes and get alpha and omega I can do it... otherwise bst pet testing will have to wait till level 99 perhaps... or a fully upgraded Aymur....

[Spira]

nice that you're bringing this up xilk.

wish i could contribute but i haven't been able to log in to ffxi to actually play for like 3 months now :\ miss events with u guys

[Xilk]

Name     	Job	MaxHP	HP/lvl	TP	Delay	Base D	Dmg type 
AudaciouAnna	WAR	4886	72	6.9	260	117	Slash 
BloodclawShasra	WAR	4616		6.4	240	119	Slash 
BugeyedBroncha	WAR	4344		5.7	210	118	Slash 
ChopsueyChucky						91	 
CraftyClyvonne	WAR	4886	72				Slash 
CourierCarrie	PLD (85)3704    116			90	Blunt 
DipperYuly	THF	3682	52	6.2	230	111	Slash 
DiscreetLouise	WAR	4072	59	8.3	320	110	Blunt 
FatsoFargann	WAR	3800	55	6.9	260	116	Slash 
FlowerpotMerle	MNK	4608	64	4.8   **480	64	Blunt 
LuckyLulush	WAR	4344	64	6.2	230	116	Slash 
MailbusterCetas	WAR	4344	64	6.4	240	116	Slash 
NurseryNazuna	WAR	5430	158	6.5	245	116	Slash 
PrestoJulio	WAR	4344	64	7.4	280	117	Slash 
SwiftSieghard	WAR	4344	64	7.4	280	117	Slash

* Base damage estimates do not consider variations in level at this time (I suspect the minor varations here are due to level differences, and we will find that base D will be same for pets w/ same job and same level OR close enough to be the difference between elvaan & galka STR) The only confirmed levels in this chart are for shasra & broncha @ 90, Nazuna @ 86 and carrie & chucky @ 75.
**martial arts traits expected so this is likely 280 delay.


So far, we have found/confirmed the following:
Call Beast has 3/6; 2/6; 1/6 ratio for what level pets will spawn at.
War: Fencer, Crit attack bonus
THF: Crit attack bonus
MNK: Max HP boost
Pet TP & Delays
Spur & Spur+ effects
Base Damage Estimations for Jug pets.
Just like avatars, bst pets hit capped pDif_max at 4.2 and capped pDif_min at 4.0. Pdif formulas will likely match the same pattern as Smn Avatars found by Kegsay.


The Following Questions Remain to be answered (and are high on my priority list):
What are pet attack values?
What are pet defense values?
What innate resistances do jugs have? (yuly: wind; fargann: blunt; water, etc)
How do Base Damage, Attack, and defense scale with pet level? (this can actually be tested on bst using 75 capped jugs and varying beast affinity merits!)
How do Monster Gloves affect pet level spawn ratios?

Martial Arts on merle? (most likely)
Double attack and triple attack rates for war and thf jugs (assumed to match player job traits)

How does pdif scale vs defense? I'll want to make a chart like the others, but might wait for level 99 on this.

[Byrthnoth]

Maybe I'm crazy, but shouldn't first priority be showing that Yuly got TH3 at 90? :D

[Xilk]

Maybe I'm crazy, but shouldn't first priority be showing that Yuly got TH3 at 90? :D

great idea! pleast go buy 5 stacks, and farm in misareaux. make sure you have a level 90 dipper when you do. You'll have to compare to max hp tables by using dawn mulsum or reward. get hp low enough so you get a full hp recovery from it too.

[blowfin]

What innate resistances do jugs have? (yuly: wind; fargann: blunt; water, etc)

From testing I've seen people do on Ladybugs and Leeches on the official forums, base resistance for both Yuly and Fatso to Wind and Water respectively is 50%.

On top of that Yuly seems to have high wind resistance built in. Don't know about the leech~

But yeah, the 95% resist figure for Ladybugs in general on wiki isn't correct. Someone has just extrapolated from limited results.

[Malacite]

If you looked at the link I posted, you'd see that Celestial avatars have about 60 less attack than Fenrir and the same base damage. If you're talking about Predator Claws vs. Eclipse Bite, I'd say it's as easy to explain as 5 > 3.

Not only that but isn't P Claws a Crit WS too?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Why are you so fucking stupid?

First post, same page.

[Xilk]

I had an interesting observation while playing yesterday. I had a friend helping me cleave birds in abyssea la theine for Magian Trial.
First I was using lulush for whirl claws, but I switched to Julio for soporific.
We killed piasa a few times as well, just to get NM out of the way. I had alot of damage reduction atma on so I could cap out pdt while still having magian axe in off hand. Ducal Guard, Lions, heavens.
I should have 71% -mdt and 101% -pdt.

lulush took 80~100 damage from the enthunder on Piasa's attacks.(rabbit probably weak to lightning) Julio took 0~2

I'd like to test Julio more for potential thunder resistance. In my other tests for elemental resistance so far, I've found Nazuna takes more damage from all magic than I do, and broncha takes less.... I suppose sheep are dumber than Galka, but eft are smarter... The resist rates seem higher on broncha.

I have more specifics, but I've not found anything conclusive and its not cleanly organized...

just thought I'd share when I saw it mentioned.

right before the update I thought to test if pets have the 50% crit damage + cap like players did (since the -pdt cap doesn't apply) but this changed over the update and I'm pretty sure we can only get up to 68% crit damage + on pets now. well maybe a little higher w/ atma of the hero on top of RR and SS.

[shepardG]

I'm quite new to BST, but was wondering if there is any Jug pet that is strong to Earth based magic?

[Ocara]

I'm quite new to BST, but was wondering if there is any Jug pet that is strong to Earth based magic?

Ladybugs are wind based and probably earth resistant (Wiki says they are but lolwiki), so yuly looks like your best pick from jug pets.

[Glamthing]

well, if anything can be drawn from being hit simultaneously by the same stoneaga spell from the same caster last night I was routinely getting hit for about 535 (with +12 earth) while Yuly was taking about 110 on average, so yeah, prolly resistant to earth.

BTW, any concrete #s on when Yuly's TH works best? I'm farming Amoeban Pseudopods atm, don't want to use my thief. Doing the stupid Threadbare Tribulations quest in Aby Attowah (working on Aby fame in all zones, figured 2 birds, 1 stone), don't feel like paying 120k/stack for something I can farm while SU/Merit. Figure I'll just mule the useless seals until I get around to leveling those jobs and there's a couple I actually can use yet. Using RR/GH/Mounted (I don't have Apoc and the TH one is otherwise useless on bst/dnc). Killed about 80 last night in Mis, got 4 pseudopods. Thinking to /brd instead of /dnc, Dread Spikes sux...