Miss Piggy's Grocery Store Checkout Headlines

**Coren** · 2016-09-28 10:39

Sandpaper under wipers to get rid of ice is my favorite.

**Faundrant** · 2016-09-28 16:55

Found another gem

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fee...o9I?li=BBnbfcL

Pepe the Frog, a cartoon character popular with alt-right campaigners and some Donald Trump supporters, has been declared a hate symbol by the Anti-Defamation League.

I get that some people just want to watch the world burn if it doesn't conform to their narrow version of reality, but really......

**archibaldcrane** · 2016-09-28 17:05

If you read the actual ADL page on pepe it's significantly more nuanced than that.

**Faundrant** · 2016-09-28 17:35

So yes, looking at the ADL page they defend their laughable position of a meme being a hate symbol by using circular logic.

However, because so many Pepe the Frog memes are not bigoted in nature, it is important to examine use of the meme only in context. The mere fact of posting a Pepe meme does not mean that someone is racist or white supremacist. However, if the meme itself is racist or anti-Semitic in nature, or if it appears in a context containing bigoted or offensive language or symbols, then it may have been used for hateful purposes.

SOURCE: http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/ha...-the-frog.html

They are arguing if the content of the meme is racist, then it may be racist. The same can be said for any statement that contains racist sentiment. By that logic if someone uses any symbol in racist context, it is grounds for the ADL to blanket declare that symbol is now a racist hate symbol. To declare a meme a racist symbol on such logic is laughable, and deserves to be ridiculed.

**archibaldcrane** · 2016-09-28 18:10

Except they aren't "blanket declaring" anything, that's the nuance.

**Zetanio** · 2016-09-28 18:11

I still can't believe this is a thing at all.

They really still don't understand how the internet works.

**Faundrant** · 2016-09-28 18:33

Except they are blanket declaring, they put it in their "Hate Symbols Database." Their own informational page on the Hate Symbol Database states

This database provides an overview of many of the symbols most frequently used by a variety of white supremacist groups and movements, as well as some other types of hate groups.

You can't have it both ways, either the symbols in their database are symbols of hate by the ADL's definition, or they are not. Putting the Pepe the Frog meme in their database means they claim it is a racist symbol now. There is no middle ground of well maybe it it is, maybe it isn't. You put it in the database, its a racist symbol now. This isn't a gray area, make your own call database, this is the ADL's own determination of what is and what is not a hate symbol. ADL has decided Pepe the Frog is a hate symbol, that's the story. Questionable choice likely done by an older generation that does not understand what internet culture has devolved into.

**archibaldcrane** · 2016-09-28 18:43

That's not the story. If you read the story, then you know what the story is.

The disclaimer on the front page of the hate symbols site:

DISCLAIMER

All the symbols depicted here must be evaluated in the context in which they appear. Few symbols ever represent just one idea or are used exclusively by one group. For example, the Confederate Flag is a symbol that is frequently used by white supremacists but which also has been used by people and groups that are not racist. Similarly, other symbols in this database may be significant to people who are not extreme or racist. The descriptions here point out significant multiple meanings but may not be able to relay every possible meaning of a particular symbol.

But sure keep on trucking with your "end of story" nonsense lol

**Faundrant** · 2016-09-28 19:13

I'll agree with you that they have a disclaimer to cover their legal butts about having to make a personal choice on the context of the symbol. The fact remains that the ADL feels that the Pepe the Frog meme now warrants consideration as a hate symbol. They justify this by saying its inclusion as a hate symbol in their database has been due to users on 4chan, 8chan, and Reddit posting it with racist, bigoted, or anti-Semitic themes. This segment of the internet admittedly has created some truly awful things, but to now include Pepe the Frog due to that segment of users is a stretch for justification. As stated in the original MSN article since this meme has become popular with certain political groups, the ADL now feels it warrants inclusion as a hate symbol. As I stated before ADL defends its inclusion by stating

However, if the meme itself is racist or anti-Semitic in nature, or if it appears in a context containing bigoted or offensive language or symbols, then it may have been used for hateful purposes.

This at least to me shows they have no real ground to stand on for the meme being a hate symbol. They argue if its used in a racist manner, it must be racist. A circular argument. This smacks of a political stunt to try to make some political actors into villains by the use of a meme in social media.

**archibaldcrane** · 2016-09-28 19:19

Are you arguing that there are symbols that are inherently racist, devoid of how it is used?

**Faundrant** · 2016-09-28 19:36

No, I am arguing the ADL made a laughable choice, on circular logic, for possibly suspect reasons for the inclusion of the meme in their Hate Symbol database. Context is everything, we both agree on that. What we disagree on seems to be whether the ADL made a good or bad choice on including this meme.
And just so there is no confusion, no, I do not believe that there are inherently racist symbols. There are symbols that have been co-opted for hate, and symbols created by hate groups to express their views. However that is all they are in the end, symbols that mean one thing to one group and another to a different group. A symbol only has the meaning that you personally assigned to it.