Dev Tracker

[Gokulo]

Shouldn't be that surprising. On one side people should it's too strong, but on the other they don't mind using these overpowered tools and hate when they're taken away.

[Byrthnoth]

Blood Rage lasts for a minute with Lorica +2 and gives +20% damage, so that works out to an average of +4% crit damage. Giving an extra tier (which WAR's trait growth structure predicted they would get anyway and was temporarily implemented on the test server) increase crit damage by 3%. They basically held back the trait tier so that people could say what you're saying, even though WAR should have gotten the trait already anyway.

PS. You can fix balance issues without nerfs.

[Atoreis]

Even that being the case, I don't get complaining about them fixing what a lot of the community saw as an ACTUAL balance issue when they finally got around to fixing it. Why shout BARANCE in this case when it's actually valid for this particular case?

I'm pretty sure UF and VS will still be top-of-the-line WS since they're reducing the crit-rate adjustment and not the actual damage, though I guess that depends on how drastic the change is. Kind of weird they'd remove the Blood rage critdam just to give an extra trait though, doesn't that just end up having it back where it started when you average it all out?

WTF are you saying.
Victory smite is fucking around 15/20/25, thats almost fucking nothing. Ukko is somewhere around 30/50/80 and thats huge yeah but it has no impetus to play with and no real option for ddex build. SAM will dominate now and thats what Tanaka wants. He can gtfo. Only ppl who wanted WAR and MNK to get nerfed were DRKs (which should be buffed instead of nerfing WAR and MNK) and some lol jobs like THFs that for some stupid reasons want to be on par with WAR on dealing damage.

Also Blood rage is for PARTY not only WAR which can be used as 2 min buff if you have 2 war in a party and for all in a party.

[Kincard]

PS. You can fix balance issues without nerfs.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I really would've preferred they buffed every other class for sure. I just think it's a bit funny that people have been talking about WARs and MNKs being overpowered for months and then mocking the "balance" excuse when it actually applies in this case. =P

Only ppl who wanted WAR and MNK to get nerfed were DRKs (which should be buffed instead of nerfing WAR and MNK) and some lol jobs like THFs that for some stupid reasons want to be on par with WAR on dealing damage.

I'm pretty sure I've heard complaints about WAR and MNK from pretty much every DPS job in the game, though I will admit part of that is probably the same as the "omfg SAM is overpowered bbq" shit the game had back in TOAU. Also, isn't the precise point of adjusting jobs so that you wouldn't consider jobs like THF "lol" anymore?

Also Blood rage is for PARTY not only WAR which can be used as 2 min buff if you have 2 war in a party and for all in a party.

That's true and it sucks, but given that the community seems to always only really care about individual damage output (As far as all their theorycrafting is concerned) I doubt any of them really factor that in when they voice their complain about job balance.

[Atoreis]

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I really would've preferred they buffed every other class for sure. I just think it's a bit funny that people have been talking about WARs and MNKs being overpowered for months and then mocking the "balance" excuse when it actually applies in this case. =P

They are not fucking overpowered they are PURE DD JOBS. Only jobs that should be in the same league is SAM and DRK and SAM was raised to that lvl with Shoha recently so they only needed to fix DRK. MNK SAM WAR and DRK should be overpowered in dd compering to THFs DNCs PUPs NINs BSTs DRGs and only those jobs were bullshitting about MNK and WAR being overpowered.

[Jem]

I think DRK would far rather have seen themselves buffed than WAR and MNK nerfed.

Personally I would rather have seen newer mobs resist crits and/or have crit damage reduction. That would still leave SAM top of the pile though.

Slightly related note. I think this virtually extinguishes the hope of relic buffs (not that they needed them anyway), since Ukon and Vere were the main reason people were screaming that Relics were worse than Empy's.


EDIT: SE also probably didn't like the sort of numbers being put out by Ukko's and Smite on their newer mobs which will have contributed slightly to this. Knowing them, they probably expected their damage to tone down as they added harder mobs.

[Byrthnoth]

Did we ever actually get it confirmed that VS was 15/20/25? For a while people were claiming that of all Empyrean crit WSs because Blade: Hi was all that had been tested.

PS. The DRK buff really could have been 1.0 fTP/STR mod on Entropy and no attack penalty on Resolution. Coupled with Shoha, that would have brought the four heavy DD jobs up to the same level. DRG would still be back there, buuuuuuut DRG.

[Atoreis]

I think DRK would far rather have seen themselves buffed than WAR and MNK nerfed.

Personally I would rather have seen newer mobs resist crits and/or have crit damage reduction. That would still leave SAM top of the pile though.

Slightly related note. I think this virtually extinguishes the hope of relic buffs (not that they needed them anyway), since Ukon and Vere were the main reason people were screaming that Relics were worse than Empy's.


EDIT: SE also probably didn't like the sort of numbers being put out by Ukko's and Smite on their newer mobs which will have contributed slightly to this. Knowing them, they probably expected their damage to tone down as they added harder mobs.

Bolded#1 Because you have brain
Bolded#2 Not really, Spharai is now equal to Veret with good shijin set.

[Jem]

Oh, I know that a Spharai MNK with Shijin matches Vereth. I told my wife as much and she is now doing a Spharai even though she already has a Vere (she loves MNK)

It's the masses that generally don't and they're usually the ones who shout loudest. A Smite nerf will shut them up though.

[huckster]

Bolded#1 Because you have brain
Bolded#2 Not really, Spharai is now equal to Veret with good shijin set.

Ato - dla Ciebie:
http://www.rajsmakosza.pl/images/mel...i_herbapol.jpg

[Kincard]

They are not fucking overpowered they are PURE DD JOBS. Only jobs that should be in the same league is SAM and DRK and SAM was raised to that lvl with Shoha recently so they only needed to fix DRK. MNK SAM WAR and DRK should be overpowered in dd compering to THFs DNCs PUPs NINs BSTs DRGs and only those jobs were bullshitting about MNK and WAR being overpowered.

Oh please, if you follow the logic of "pure DD jobs" the only job that should never be nuked DPS-wise is DRK and RNG, since they were designed to be pure DPS jobs. WAR, MNK, and SAM were all originally designed with (at least) limited tanking capabilities in mind- after all, that's the same line of logic THFs don't get more DPS, they have TH and enmity control abilities!

[Virg]

Do Bravura, use Upheaval.

[Julian]

Wow, fucking retarded.

[Byrthnoth]

imop, melees without a way to substantially reduce damage taken (Evasion, Counter, a billion -DT job abilities) are the Heavy DDs and all have the same basic role. SE's tanking delusions for WAR (Fencer?) are retarded and they have shown they understand that on some level.

WSs now with 25% DA:
* Metatron will be about 4 fTP and 60% STR (gorget and belt).
* Ukko's is 3.5 and 60% STR (Crit).
* Upheaval will be 4.5 fTP and 100% VIT.
* King's Justice with AM3 and Mythic WS boost would be about 4.75 fTP and 50% STR. (5 fTP with gorget/belt)
* Raging Rush will be 3.5 fTP and 35% STR (Crit).
* King's Justice would be about 3.5 fTP and 50% STR

Metatron doesn't really compare that poorly, though AM3-active KJ beats it by almost 25%. You have to be careful when comparing between Upheaval and the other WSs, because stacking STR for the other WSs will also increase fSTR (effectively a 30% STR mod) and attack. So having 60% STR on Metatron compared to a 100% VIT mod on Upheaval really isn't that different.

Spoiler: show

25% STR = fSTR
fSTR/alpha to compare with WS mods makes it 29%.

[Jem]

How does Ragnarok + Resolution stack up against them for WAR Byrth?

[Toth]

Long time coming but at they are getting their traits in exchange so....

[Byrthnoth]

Does Resolutions fTP still propagate?

If not:
* 5.5 fTP, attack penalty, 100% STR mod. Assuming 170 STR in your WS set and Bravura/Ragnarok level 99, your WS has 15% more base damage (304/261) and 37.5% more fTP. Means the attack penalty would have to be in the neighborhood of 40% to even out Metatron and Resolution's damage.
If so:
* 6.5 fTP, attack penalty, 100% STR mod. 60% more fTP. Resolution's attack penalty would have to be near 50% to even out it and Metatron's damage.

For WS damage, Ragnarok would win.

Edit: For the last freaking time, they were scheduled to get those traits anyway. They were held back at the last moment (removed in the final test server update) purely so that SE could do this and people could say "don't worry about it WAR, u gat dose trates"

[Jem]

Thanks!

fTP carries and the attack penalty is ~8% I believe (or maybe that was just assumed from Shun)

Either way, I guess that wouldn't make my WAR mega gimp if I used Ragnarok (I have no Brav or Ukon).

[Byrthnoth]

Honestly, Resolution 5/5 with Ragnarok could be comparable to or better than Ukon post-update, depending how badly it gets nerfed. Even at Raging Rush levels it would have a 30% chance of ~tripling damage with a crit against high defense enemies (effectively WS damage+90%). Against low defense enemies, the value of a crit decreases (to about 1.5x) but dDEX generally increases (up to 45% crit rate) so it would be a 45% to 67.5% increase in WS damage depending on dDEX.

3.5*175% ~= 6 fTP
3.5*145% ~= 5 fTP

So you can approximate Ukko's with RR crit rate as a 5~6 fTP WS with 60% STR.

Ragnarok has lower base damage/no STR and Resolution has an attack penalty, but it would be very competitive against Raging Rush-Ukko's.

[Atoreis]

If the nerf would be 15 30 50 it wouldnt be THAT bad but I think they will do it Tanaka style. 10/15/20 go.