Dev Tracker

[Vriska]

I love it when people on the OF say "omgz no you should just give mobs Crit Def Bonus so I can continue wanking off over my WS numbers on other mobs", perfectly content to shit all over Hi and CDC from Emps, and things like stacked Rudras, and Evis, so they can keep their hideously overpowered WS. Just no, OF Warriors. 10/25/40 is good enough for Kannagi and Almace, it's good enough for you. If anything VSmite and CDC should have higher crit rates because they have more hits to make crit, if you ask me. 5% base crit rate for every hit in your WS sounds acceptable.

[Appie]

There have been some comments asking for other weapon skills to be adjusted so that they are stronger. We actually looked into this, but due to the very large differences in values we determined it would be difficult because of the way it would tie into the balance of power between jobs. (In the case that things stayed the way they are, the chances that future abilities and equipment would have lower stats or simply not be possible to add would become increasingly high.)

God forbid we have vertical growth after a level cap raise! "Must nerf year old weaponskills because we can't make better ones for other jobs to be equal to that WAR powerhouse WS! Too much math for us to figure out and we already have such a hard time making new mods for relic WS ; ;"

"And oh you already dumped millions in HMP for your Ukko because we said we weren't going to nerf jobs anymore? Sucks to be you lolz"

Seriously SE... fuck off.

[Isiolia]

I love it when people on the OF say "omgz no you should just give mobs Crit Def Bonus so I can continue wanking off over my WS numbers on other mobs", perfectly content to shit all over Hi and CDC from Emps, and things like stacked Rudras, and Evis, so they can keep their hideously overpowered WS. Just no, OF Warriors. 10/25/40 is good enough for Kannagi and Almace, it's good enough for you. If anything VSmite and CDC should have higher crit rates because they have more hits to make crit, if you ask me. 5% base crit rate for every hit in your WS sounds acceptable.

I don't think that people would oppose boosting the crit rates of those WS at all though. I'd see mob mechanics like that as the counter to the "but we don't want players to be too powerful" argument. You make something that's resistant or immune to crits, and it forces a different strategy. If done in moderation, then it's accepted and could promote variety. For example, is anyone up in arms about their WS not doing a lot to an elemental, or a slime? Tends to be a lot more that it's just a "well, those mobs are physically resistant, nuke it" type deal. Even the level cap NM - has a per-hit cap, so adjust strategy around it.
Granted, it's something that can go too far (see: Enfeebling magic), but in moderation it'd just be an extension of the damage type weaknesses we already see. Ukko's/etc would still be great, still be exactly what people signed up for on existing content, there just might be a reason to use another WS or weapon on some new NMs/Nyzul floors/whatever.

But, that'd also probably promote versatility in DD jobs, which SE seems more intent on stamping out (given how few jobs are on most post-75 weapons, needing to 5/5 merited WS, etc).

[Vriska]

I don't understand your logic. Ukkos is vastly overpowered compared to other Crit WSes >therefore> crush the damage output of all crit WSes on certain mobs? This leaves us with Ukkos still overshadowing everything else on anything not crit-resistant, and other Crit WSes being ground into the floor even more than they already are on the crit-resistant mobs? The most that would do is give WARs a reason to sometimes use another WS while forcing other Crit WS Empy DDs to use gimped WSes as well. All in all it feels like either "if WAR has to go down, so does everyone else", or the old newspaper policy of "some teenagers are bad, therefore all teenagers are bad" (some crit WS are overpowered, therefore KILL THEM KILL THEM ALL)?

Why not just fix the actual problem, you know, exactly like they're doing?

[Appie]

Why not just fix the actual problem, you know, buffing other jobs to the level of WAR, exactly like they aren't doing?

ftfy

And yes I already know the answer to this: why take route B when A is much shorter for a skeleton crew on the game? Answer fits well with "PS2 limitations" and "barance".

[Alkimi]

From Known Issues:

Following the version update that took place on Dec. 15, 2011, the issue listed below has been confirmed. Investigation and recovery work is currently underway. We ask for your patience in this matter until the issue is addressed.

[Issue details]

- An issue wherein the augment “Enhances Overwhelm effect” on the item “Saotome Domaru +2” grants players higher TP than intended when using a multi-hit weapon skill.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[Raen Ryong]

ftfy

And yes I already know the answer to this: why take route B when A is much shorter for a skeleton crew on the game? Answer fits well with "PS2 limitations" and "barance".

If you have a distribution of numbers with like

10
8
7
7
6
6
6
6
5
5
4

it makes more sense to reduce the 10 than to make everything else a 10, and balance it around the median.

[Mahoro]

I think that this is an important point, about the free anything beyond Carbuncle. If a Summoner from now stepped out of a time-bubble back in the 75 cap, every SMN would instantly shit his/her pants. Walking around with Avatars that aren't just free, that give MP back, let alone free/MP return spirits? There would probably have been riots. I look at it from that perspective, I sacrificed time (and gil once we got to the stupid geode part) to get something that people would have killed for a few years back. If people don't think that it is worth their time to do it, then so be it; but the same thing about any Relic, Mythic, and/or Empyrean. You don't need them, so therefor it is a waste to get them. Absolutely needing something isn't the point, it is a matter of having something that makes your character just a little better, even if that improvement is 1%.

I am absolutely fine with making my character better, even by 1%. SMN is my favorite job, and I am constantly tweaking blood pact builds to eke out extra seconds/power on Wards, and extra MAB on Rages. But when I constantly end every fight I'm in with at least half of my MP, I just don't feel like I'd be improved by the perp - staves, even by 1%. Admittedly, you did all those Staves at a time when perp - WAS valued, so good on you that you have them now. I just can't ..

[Vriska]

ftfy

And yes I already know the answer to this: why take route B when A is much shorter for a skeleton crew on the game? Answer fits well with "PS2 limitations" and "barance".

Not even. The problem is NOT that all the other jobs are less powerful than WAR, it is that WAR is leaps and bounds ahead of the other jobs. A subtle distinction, but it's there. Imagine for a moment every job in the game is capable of 6k WSes whenever they feel like. What happens to Jeuno T6 VWNMs, say? They become ABOSLUTE JOKES. Game becomes a cakewalk. There's no point in playing, you might as well go play chess against a toddler.

The whole army is not out of step. You are.

[Darkmagi]

You are an idiot for thinking that warrior is what makes VW a joke. WAR is the best DD choice yes, this doesn't mean that nearly any other good and properly buffed DD can keep up decently and still zerg any voidwatch within a short period of time as well. WS average of ukko's is far far less than 6k, why do you think being able to do rare spike damage is anything special? If being able to do awesome max dmg was game breaking, relic rng would be far ahead of that. (protip: it's not)

[Vriska]

You are an idiot for thinking that warrior is what makes VW a joke. WAR is the best DD choice yes, this doesn't mean that nearly any other good and properly buffed DD can keep up decently and still zerg any voidwatch within a short period of time as well.

I didn't say that. I said having 20 WAR-level DDs still able to hit every proc that comes up, would make VW a total joke.

[Darkmagi]

It's already beyond a joke if handled properly, they may as well make it less tedious and be able to kill it slightly faster. Most good groups won't even bring extra proc jobs besides a single party anyways, maybe a few jobs with multiple purposes like drg for angon and drk which will be able to get a few magic triggers that /drk can't. I can't think of a single fight besides botulus rex(Only because my group hasn't tried the DD method which seems to be far more efficient) that takes more than 5-10mins unless something goes horribly wrong.

[Isiolia]

I don't understand your logic. Ukkos is vastly overpowered compared to other Crit WSes >therefore> crush the damage output of all crit WSes on certain mobs? This leaves us with Ukkos still overshadowing everything else on anything not crit-resistant, and other Crit WSes being ground into the floor even more than they already are on the crit-resistant mobs? The most that would do is give WARs a reason to sometimes use another WS while forcing other Crit WS Empy DDs to use gimped WSes as well. All in all it feels like either "if WAR has to go down, so does everyone else", or the old newspaper policy of "some teenagers are bad, therefore all teenagers are bad" (some crit WS are overpowered, therefore KILL THEM KILL THEM ALL)?

Which part of my post said that other WS couldn't be improved?

What I'm doing is looking at why SE would not be following the far more popular idea of "buffs not nerfs", which would likely include improvements to other WS.

Like I said, looking at it from the standpoint of "but players would be too strong" - well, if crit WS are the reason for that, then compensate for them in future content. Undermining the efforts of players is a bad move, and sets (well, continues) a poor development precedent. If you're expecting people to put in the kind of time XI demands, they should be able to trust that the devs won't change their mind for the worse later. That said, there's no promise regarding future content, and again, done in moderation resistances just demand strategy. Or, you know, they could just cap everyone's output (which is a further implication of this) and give NMs Death and Amnesia moves.

[Vriska]

Again, chess against toddlers. Call me stupid but I don't particularly enjoy steamrolling everything in the game. It's no fun if all you have to do is sit there and mash your Ukko's/Fanatics macros.

[Vriska]

well, if crit WS are the reason for that

No, you're not getting it. As it stands, a single crit WS is out of line. Why a problem existing should necessitate fixing everything BUT that problem is completely beyond me. You just wouldn't do it. If a part of your car is broken you do not go and design a completely new car that can somehow make use of the broken part.

[hexagram23]

Not even. The problem is NOT that all the other jobs are less powerful than WAR, it is that WAR is leaps and bounds ahead of the other jobs. A subtle distinction, but it's there. Imagine for a moment every job in the game is capable of 6k WSes whenever they feel like. What happens to Jeuno T6 VWNMs, say? They become ABOSLUTE JOKES. Game becomes a cakewalk. There's no point in playing, you might as well go play chess against a toddler.

The whole army is not out of step. You are.

WARs can't pull 6k WS out of their ass whenever they feel like it. What the fuck are you talking about?

I can understand agreeing with the nerf but you act like WARs ran a train on your wife or something. That's the vibe I get from reading through your posts.

[Vriska]

WARs can't pull 6k WS out of their ass whenever they feel like it. What the fuck are you talking about?

I can understand agreeing with the nerf but you act like WARs ran a train on your wife or something. That's the vibe I get from reading through your posts.

Poor, sweet Janine. Cut down in her prime.

naw in all honestly i'm just sick of people trying to defend the indefensible

[Appie]

If you have a distribution of numbers with like

10
8
7
7
6
6
6
6
5
5
4

it makes more sense to reduce the 10 than to make everything else a 10, and balance it around the median.

Like I said, I know it makes sense, doesn't mean I have to like it. If SE for once properly tested their shit the 10 wouldn't be there in the first place, now they are just backpedalling on previous statements.

Not even. The problem is NOT that all the other jobs are less powerful than WAR, it is that WAR is leaps and bounds ahead of the other jobs. A subtle distinction, but it's there. Imagine for a moment every job in the game is capable of 6k WSes whenever they feel like. What happens to Jeuno T6 VWNMs, say? They become ABOSLUTE JOKES. Game becomes a cakewalk. There's no point in playing, you might as well go play chess against a toddler.

The whole army is not out of step. You are.

It is no problem for SE to make harder content (remember AV and PW back in the day?) So your precious T6 VW's could have been a fuckload harder if you care so much about the game not becoming a cakewalk while they didn't have to nerf any job. But then we come to the same problem as buffing other jobs, why put in more effort and buff T6 VW's before we implement them while we can just nerf one job? You might think that attitude from a dev is ok, I don't.

[hexagram23]

And while I'm on the topic, someone else....or maybe it was the same person, said something along the lines of "how it is fair that other crit based WS like Hi, CDC, Evisceration, etc can't do as much as Ukko's?"

Hmmm....I dunno, maybe because Ukko's is on a GREAT AXE, and not a one-handed weapon. Not sure why a 1-handed dagger or katana would do as much damage as a two-handed weapon with 2-3x it's base damage, but ok.

[hexagram23]

Poor, sweet Janine. Cut down in her prime.

naw in all honestly i'm just sick of people trying to defend the indefensible

I'm a career DRK. I have no stake in the nerf either way. I'm just saying you seem to have an agenda here above and beyond simply agreeing with SE for game play purposes. Did people pick WARs instead of whatever job you are? I don't understand your vendetta here.