Dev Tracker

[ronin sparthos]

Even if you buff content, you're still stuck with a situation where WAR had access to a base 30% critrate WS where other jobs had nothing close. As much as SE stupidly throws around the word balance, this was a rare situation where they were actually correct in the assertion that these WS were OP.

WAR is already a powerful DD on its own and the need for the extra icing that Ukkos possessed was just overkill. The only reason why this nerf stings is because its just another sign that Tanaka is back and his method of helming shit-tier content and marginal upgrades is here to stay.

The nerfs would have gone over better if you had Abyssea style content preceding it in the last update. People would be so busy having fun they wouldn't be worried about tweaks. But when you've got Logwatch, no relic/mythic/emp 99 trials, the possibility of hundreds of ADLs/PWs as content, no fix to HMPs, WoE dead on arrival, marginal Dynamis upgrades and a return to level75 style gameplay nerfs kinda stand out.

[Appie]

Even if you buff content, you're still stuck with a situation where WAR had access to a base 30% critrate WS where other jobs had nothing close.

In my post I actually meant you do both, buff weaker jobs and buff mobs so people don't emo about the cakewalk. Tanaka needs to understand that vertical growth is not a bad thing, wether it's jobs, gear or mobs. It just means more work (and obviously more money) and Tanaka sure as hell doesn't like that (hiya FFXIV which was pretty much a 2003 FFXI at launch).

[ronin sparthos]

In my post I actually meant you do both, buff weaker jobs and buff mobs so people don't emo about the cakewalk. Tanaka needs to understand that vertical growth is not a bad thing, wether it's jobs, gear or mobs. It just means more work (and obviously more money) and Tanaka sure as hell doesn't like that (hiya FFXIV which was pretty much a 2003 FFXI at launch).

It's pretty clear SE is hitting a wall with regards to 'buffing mobs'. You can only make a mob hit so hard before you need access to shit like Scherzo/Armor to avoid being oneshotted. Further attempts at difficulty increases have been a resurgence in mobs that have doom, mobs that cast death or reset hate so frequently it is impossible to traditionally 'tank' them. The reason we got so many temps in Voidwatch was precisely because if mobs were that powerful with no item support you'd have a high wipe rate coupled with low frequency drops which would spell a completely fail event.

It would take an investment in XI to retool the underlying problems and it's pretty clear SE isn't inclined to take that step so they will take the easy route and try to round the game off at 99 like it was 75 and call it a day. In this case, bringing Ukko's back to ground level was the simpler and more efficient choice.

[orson]

Even if you buff content, you're still stuck with a situation where WAR had access to a base 30% critrate WS where other jobs had nothing close. As much as SE stupidly throws around the word balance, this was a rare situation where they were actually correct in the assertion that these WS were OP.

WAR is already a powerful DD on its own and the need for the extra icing that Ukkos possessed was just overkill. The only reason why this nerf stings is because its just another sign that Tanaka is back and his method of helming shit-tier content and marginal upgrades is here to stay.

The nerfs would have gone over better if you had Abyssea style content preceding it in the last update. People would be so busy having fun they wouldn't be worried about tweaks. But when you've got Logwatch, no relic/mythic/emp 99 trials, the possibility of hundreds of ADLs/PWs as content, no fix to HMPs, WoE dead on arrival, marginal Dynamis upgrades and a return to level75 style gameplay nerfs kinda stand out.

Are you forgetting they just added a new set of weaponskills for the entire collection of weapons? We just were been given an update, "to reach the absolute pinnacle of power." The added weaponskills for the most part are so mediocre and unbalanced a lot of people won't even be bothered to unlock the majority aside from a handful. War and Mnk both received a nerf instead of getting anything new for 95 -> 99 that's moronic design. Sure Ukko's was strong but nerfing it is an obvious lazy design choice.

It also comes off as a bad sign when the devs have said they don't want players to feel powerful like they did in Abyssea. Too much damage output isn't a big deal. Damage mitigation and sustained curing is far harder to balance because balancing for mediocre to excellently geared players makes it a life or wipe difference for groups. Not dealing enough damage usually just means the fight runs longer or you need to throw more bodies at the fight. This is also something that is a difference between the devs opinion and most of the player base. The devs seem to believe that we should go back to a format of using as many people as possible to kill shit. Personally in my experience I don't think most people now want to be required to organize huge groups just to get content done. It would be ok if they gave options like have a regular and alliance mode for Voidwatch but again SE is lazy and doesn't want to be bothered creating tiered difficulty content.

I have a hard time believing anyone that thinks this nerf was needed or the best the course of action wasn't someone who was a little butthurt that. A) Thought the game was getting to easy mode and wanted the "good old days." B) Was crying on the inside because their favorite job wasn't in the spotlight.

[Lucavi]

Orson, how many "bad signs" have SE given you over the near-decade? Honest question. If the thousands of "bad signs" of the past haven't turned you away, this one certainly will not.

[Raen Ryong]

I have a hard time believing anyone that thinks this nerf was needed or the best the course of action wasn't someone who was a little butthurt that. A) Thought the game was getting to easy mode and wanted the "good old days." B) Was crying on the inside because their favorite job wasn't in the spotlight.

No job deserves to thoroughly dominate one aspect of the game as powerfully as Warrior has dominated DD for such a long time. If this was DRK or THF or hell even PUP, I would be supporting the nerf because if you have an anomaly it makes more sense to "balance" it than to make the rest of your data fit the anomaly.

EDIT: As for Warriors feeling discontent about this, that's a fair reaction but at the same time when you were god tier before and still very powerful after, it seems a bit unreasonable. While it's true that this is THE big update to 99 and you should feel incredible, sometimes it's simply not realistic to continuously buff something that is already extremely powerful to preserve (/create) balance.

[Selamis]

The problem I have with the overall nerf isn't so much Ukon and Ukko's Fury (it was OP) and a slight tone down is ok, cut it to 20% or 25% at 100% TP, but a straight 50% reduction across the board is a bit much, but the main thing I take issue with is the nerf to blood rage, and the amount of time it took to nerf Ukko's Fury. The devs have known how powerful it was since they added it, and have never touched it but as soon as Tanaka gets back in charge, well sucks to be you, gotta tone it down.

I say this as someone making an Ukon now, despite knowing it's damage won't be as high as it was. The blood rage is the major thing people should be upset about because it is a tool that directly helps out the other dd in the party, and makes their numbers higher. That to me, is something you'd think they would view as working properly because it adds balance, instead of just one person having increased critical damage, and critical attack rate, now the whole party can.

[NynJa]

You are an idiot for thinking that warrior is what makes VW a joke. WAR is the best DD choice yes, this doesn't mean that nearly any other good and properly buffed DD can keep up decently and still zerg any voidwatch within a short period of time as well.

Not that I entirely agree with nerfing war 3 ways in 1 patch (with how SE changes things, they look at something as a 5% nerf, and it really winds up being a 50% nerf...3 things at once obviously cant be good), but there are people who actually guage VW success and willingness to join by "how many Ukon Wars do you have". Thats a problem...thats what SE sees.

of course, when it becomes "how many 5/5 shoha sam's do you have" SE wont give a fuck.

[Darkmagi]

It will still be WARs because despite the ukon nerf, WAR will still be a good margin ahead of anything else. A lot of jobs are just miles behind and really needed a buff, rather than war needing a nerf. WAR being ahead is fine though, it's the glass cannon job of the game. The flaw would be voidwatch and the unlimited supply of fanatic's drinks that everyone gets.

[Damane]

It will still be WARs because despite the ukon nerf, WAR will still be a good margin ahead of anything else. A lot of jobs are just miles behind and really needed a buff, rather than war needing a nerf. WAR being ahead is fine though, it's the glass cannon job of the game. The flaw would be voidwatch and the unlimited supply of fanatic's drinks that everyone gets.

I never considered my WAR as a glasss cannon tbh... The job can tank pritty fine with proper support and gear. WAR is by no means a glass cannon job (unless you meant in a solo situation)

[Darkmagi]

If you are comparing it to other jobs(and are opting for the better damage route instead of a defensive bravura route), it's the least defensive job.

[macross]

We clear and kill every VW fast, with just one Ukkon war. Is no need for multiple ones.

[Nightfyre]

I never considered my WAR as a glasss cannon tbh... The job can tank pritty fine with proper support and gear. WAR is by no means a glass cannon job (unless you meant in a solo situation)

There is no true glass cannon in FFXI anymore with the abundance of defensive gear, but as such things go WAR is definitely one of the closest.

[ronin sparthos]

DRK?

[Prothescar]

If you have a distribution of numbers with like

10
8
7
7
6
6
6
6
5
5
4

it makes more sense to reduce the 10 than to make everything else a 10, and balance it around the median.

Fucking finally, someone else understands this concept.

[Nightfyre]

DRK?

Only with Souleater up and even that's not so bad these days. DRK gets Dread Spikes, Drain, Stun, and Weapon Bash; WAR gets Defender.

[Vriska]

I'm a career DRK. I have no stake in the nerf either way. I'm just saying you seem to have an agenda here above and beyond simply agreeing with SE for game play purposes. Did people pick WARs instead of whatever job you are? I don't understand your vendetta here.

No just honest-to-god sick of people with no design experience thinking they know how to design things. Thinking that balancing 19 other jobs and rebalancing content around the new power level is a viable alternative to just hammering down the nail that sticks out. You DO realise you're asking for (at least) 19 times the amount of work to be done? Do you honestly have no conception of how completely absurd that sounds? Or do you think the SE Development Elves will be able to magick it out regardless?

[hexagram23]

No just honest-to-god sick of people with no design experience thinking they know how to design things. Thinking that balancing 19 other jobs and rebalancing content around the new power level is a viable alternative to just hammering down the nail that sticks out. You DO realise you're asking for (at least) 19 times the amount of work to be done? Do you honestly have no conception of how completely absurd that sounds? Or do you think the SE Development Elves will be able to magick it out regardless?

That's their job. Do you not understand that? It's not as if this is a free-to-play MMORPG. It's not as if SE is a charity. You're basically saying "sympathize with them for wanting to do less work", and I can't. It's not as if this is a hobby for them, they are running a business.

And design experience means jack shit. Look at the train wreck that is FFXIV. Let's not act like SE is so good at what they do that it's impossible to conceive of them screwing something up. The only reason you're agreeing with this nerf is because you think it's justified. Meaning, they were wrong for a year while these WSs were OP. What was your opinion of SE's brilliant "design experience" then?

[Raen Ryong]

It will still be WARs because despite the ukon nerf, WAR will still be a good margin ahead of anything else. A lot of jobs are just miles behind and really needed a buff, rather than war needing a nerf. WAR being ahead is fine though, it's the glass cannon job of the game. The flaw would be voidwatch and the unlimited supply of fanatic's drinks that everyone gets.

If WAR is still a good margin ahead of anything else post-nerf, then it definitely warranted the nerf. If anything, it deserves a harsher one. The solution would be to (potentially heavily) nerf the outlying top DDs, (potentially heavily) buff the outlying bottom DDs, and adjust from there.

WAR being ahead is one thing, WAR dominating is another.

[Vriska]

That's their job. Do you not understand that? It's not as if this is a free-to-play MMORPG. It's not as if SE is a charity. You're basically saying "sympathize with them for wanting to do less work", and I can't. It's not as if this is a hobby for them, they are running a business.

And design experience means jack shit. Look at the train wreck that is FFXIV. Let's not act like SE is so good at what they do that it's impossible to conceive of them screwing something up. The only reason you're agreeing with this nerf is because you think it's justified. Meaning, they were wrong for a year while these WSs were OP. What was your opinion of SE's brilliant "design experience" then?

My opinion is those numbers are ridiculous and shouldn't have been released in the first place. But just because SE screwed up doesn't make YOU any better at designing things, now does it? Doesn't make you any better at coming up with fixes. In fact, that you agree with the original level of power just makes you as bad at coming up with ideas as SE was a year ago. Ideas so bad that a year later they've had to turn around and fix them.

I still refuse to believe that you actually think it's a great idea for the Devs to spend 20 times longer balancing fixes to achieve the same net difference as just fixing Ukko's. It's like driving to a store 20 times further away than your local, to get the same product. Which I'm pretty sure nobody actually does. Indeed, the fact that they are running a business means they necessarily have to be better at managing their time! If they spend god knows how long retooling all the other jobs like in your dreamworld, you can bet Nyzul expansion et cetera gets pushed back to sometime in 2013 or someshit. You sound like you think developing updates and changes to FFXI just involves turning up one day and drawing a bunch of pretty pictures onto a computer screen.