Dev Tracker

[Dooom]

When I got my Ebody after ages and ages, the feeling was more relief than joy.

If a game gives pleasure only through a feeling of "finally, it's done" rather than "hell yeah that was fun", it's not a very good game... but then, this is an MMO we're talking about. But hey ho, we can quit anytime we want!

[Draylo]

If a game gives pleasure only through a feeling of "finally, it's done" rather than "hell yeah that was fun", it's not a very good game... but then, this is an MMO we're talking about. But hey ho, we can quit anytime we want!

Find me a MMO where there is 0 grind for end game gear.

[Raen Ryong]

Doesn't mean grinding is a beneficial or fun activity for anyone but SE though. It would be very hard to replace but I don't think just lazily slapping low drop rates on things and calling it a day should qualify as good content.

[Dooom]

Find me a MMO where there is 0 grind for end game gear.

Done properly, grinding *can* be fun. It doesn't have to be a drag.

[ronin sparthos]

Good Grinding = Nyzul Isle/ZNM
Bad Grinding = Salvage/VNM

In one you walk away with something and in the other you walk away with nothing.

[Indalecia]

Add limbus to good grinding

Otherwise yeah

[Kaisha]

So essentially any event where you get credit in some form of points to collect and spend on a list of decent shit?

[GreenKnux]

Sounds a fuck ton better than "You lose, you get nothing, good day sir!"

[Aihree]

With a friend of mine going on 0/25+ for tyger's tail or sarameya hide, znm is most assuredly "bad" grinding.

[Dooom]

The progression system is/was a nice idea, but the 10 pic per game day limit and low drop rate on t3 trophies kinda undermines it.

[Yeyoking]

Good Grinding = Nyzul Isle/ZNM
Bad Grinding = Salvage/VNM

In one you walk away with something and in the other you walk away with nothing.

Grinding photos for ZNM = bad grinding. It's made worst that there is a fucking limit to how much you can turn in an hour....

I had more fun grinding Nyzul Isle/Salvage with 5 other friends even when we left with nothing but our dicks in our hands. I don't think I can comment much on VNMs right now cause it could change next update like Nyzul Isle and Salvage did after it came out. I think ZNM was the only event that was never nerfed to make it more casual.

[Miroku_Asura]

Add limbus to good grinding

Otherwise yeah

Limbus was good grinding if you were a melee job- mages got fucked in the ass with the nashira set. Not saying it wasn't fun, just gets old when people tell you to heal them, but you get jack and shit in return.

[Indalecia]

They got af1+1 and the accessories.

Not really fair to ignore those.

[ronin sparthos]

The progression system is/was a nice idea, but the 10 pic per game day limit and low drop rate on t3 trophies kinda undermines it.

Grinding photos for ZNM = bad grinding. It's made worst that there is a fucking limit to how much you can turn in an hour....

I had more fun grinding Nyzul Isle/Salvage with 5 other friends even when we left with nothing but our dicks in our hands. I don't think I can comment much on VNMs right now cause it could change next update like Nyzul Isle and Salvage did after it came out. I think ZNM was the only event that was never nerfed to make it more casual.

Don't get me wrong, I was no fan of taking pics but ultimately the grinding done for ZNM was handily rewarded with decent drop rates (for its time) and a sense of getting something done. Any player casual or hardcore would have gotten more bang for their buck doing ZNM than comparable TOAU events like Salvage, Assault or Einherjar.

PW trigs needed a fix badly but few cared since PW was content less than 1% of the playerbase ever touched because it needed a large group to do. It was the only thing ZNM basically shafted casuals out of ever having a chance at but that was the point.

All those sweet Organics, Naglerings, Mekki Shakkis among other pieces were popular and profitable for the entrepreneurial player. It was a grind where the light at the end of the tunnel was visible and thus a "good grind" in my opinion.

Salvage and Einherjar were prime examples of terrible grinding as it'd take months to finish single pieces for people solely depending on how that random number generator was feeling. Id rather take pics till I was blue in the face over dealing with the shitsink that was QQTH/QQA rates along with Reactionary Ramparts. You had to do Salvage like 4x a week to see good rates meaning stacking up RvBs to enter, denying yourself Assaults or Nyzul runs and directly cockblocking yourself out of promotions to higher ranks / better Assaults.

Odin? That bastard loved wasting slots with shit like Wbody or Plegs and GL if your group sucked and didn't always clear a not so nice wing III.

The difference between ZNMs and Salvage/Ein was clear even if the picturetaking made shit for sense and was boring as fuck. One offered you a path to good rewards with minimum random number generator tomfoolery (cept Hachiryu) and the other two were out to demoralize the fuck out of you either through lack of drops (0/75 citadels, Dfeet Odins) or cost to unlock drops (15-20m imp wootz stacks).

[TacoTaru]

I usually tend to agree with your posts, but as for Einherjar being demoralizing, I disagree. I do agree that sometimes the lootpool was absolute garbage, but even midlevel/lower member shells like mine had at least one mule, usually two+ a main person so we could be doing Odins with some good consistency. Granted, my shell didn't start doing it until after they put patched it to what it is today, so if you're speaking pre-patch, I may agree with the demoralizing part as it sounded terrible back then. At least for awhile in Ein though, it was never unrewarding as you were rewarded with Ichor even for a failed chamber (I realize for shells that spammed it early/more often that we did this part became moot within months).

[ronin sparthos]

I usually tend to agree with your posts, but as for Einherjar being demoralizing, I disagree. I do agree that sometimes the lootpool was absolute garbage, but even midlevel/lower member shells like mine had at least one mule, usually two+ a main person so we could be doing Odins with some good consistency. Granted, my shell didn't start doing it until after they put patched it to what it is today, so if you're speaking pre-patch, I may agree with the demoralizing part as it sounded terrible back then. At least for awhile in Ein though, it was never unrewarding as you were rewarded with Ichor even for a failed chamber (I realize for shells that spammed it early/more often that we did this part became moot within months).

Pre-patch Ein where rates on Abjs in NQ chambers was around ~5% your only reason for doing Ein was to unlock Odin battles. Like you said, Ichor became useless fast. The mythical Sheep NM that doubled drops I saw once ever. We got 2 Hydra fangs instead of 1 that day. Yeah...

Odin had such a large lootpool that after the 3 chambers (given your shit was in order, mules and wins) of nothing seeing yet another god damn Wbody or something equally worthless was always complete letdown. Oh sure, you'd have the runs where it almost seemed worth it when 2 Ebody would load but overall the amount of time wasted in Ein truly made runs demoralizing. This isn't to say that I didn't squeeze out fun talking shit on ventrilo or doing the Odin fights but with no intermediate rewards, you either got abjurations or you got a whole lotta nothing and Einherjar was damn good at giving you nothing.

[Miroku_Asura]

They got af1+1 and the accessories.

Not really fair to ignore those.

You only got the af1+1 if your group stepped into Temenos though- a lot of people just spammed the crap out of Apollyon. That and it still took at least 75 coins (which are often times are just split up evenly instead of giving them to the people not getting drops off of the final Omega) to get the accessories that were still designed more towards melee and tanking jobs (Boxers/Brutal). The Loq. Earring is nice and all, but when you compare Homam to Nashira, Homam shits all over Nashira then sets it on fire in terms of usefulness for the jobs that can equip it.

Not trying to come off as someone who's a negative Nancy mind you, just being rather blunt =x

[TacoTaru]

Pre-patch Ein where rates on Abjs in NQ chambers was around ~5% your only reason for doing Ein was to unlock Odin battles. Like you said, Ichor became useless fast. The mythical Sheep NM that doubled drops I saw once ever. We got 2 Hydra fangs instead of 1 that day. Yeah...

Odin had such a large lootpool that after the 3 chambers (given your shit was in order, mules and wins) of nothing seeing yet another god damn Wbody or something equally worthless was always complete letdown. Oh sure, you'd have the runs where it almost seemed worth it when 2 Ebody would load but overall the amount of time wasted in Ein truly made runs demoralizing. This isn't to say that I didn't squeeze out fun talking shit on ventrilo or doing the Odin fights but with no intermediate rewards, you either got abjurations or you got a whole lotta nothing and Einherjar was damn good at giving you nothing.

Fair enough, I can certainly see that, and I guess what I didn't imply at all like I thought (damn you tired and sickness ) was that for a midlevel shell like ours who didn't do kings at all, almost anything that loaded into the pool was a win for us (although I believe we did get d.feeted a few times). I'll concede to any shell that did kings regularly and were farming for very specific gear/Odin only pieces, I can certainly see the disdain for the grind. I think for your run of the mill, joeblow shell who didn't have the competency, capability or desire to camp kings, Einherjar shouldn't have been anything but a goldmine for them for a decent while. So while the reward dichotomy wasn't fantastic for how it rewarded casuals versus those who had put it more time, I'd still rate it above Salvage/VNM, but that's just me (again, strictly post patch Ein).

[Indalecia]

You know what? Screw it.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[Apelila]

So uh, bump? I'll be this borks Windoer sometime in the future.
Alt thought: OMG an update for windows only users.
Super troll thought that is probably more accurate given the adjustment to the font: We're getting 14's shitty menu system
Linky!

Camate

Join Date Mar 2011 Posts 109

Currently the development team is hard at work looking into adjustments for mouse and keyboard controls for the Windows version UI. This is a higher priority for them at the moment, but if they have an opportunity in the future to revamp the entire GUI, they will look into it at that time.