Dev Tracker

[Septimus]

I agree that it saved it, but at the same time it set up what people are seeing as a failure now. With the ability to dual-box a lot of the abyssea stuff once it was understood, and breaking up large shells, I feel the community suffered because of it. You can see people lamenting the need for large groups to do things like Legion. And by making gear that was such a huge leap over existing equipment, going back to slight increases or side-grades is turning people off. I've also found that shouting to get any kind of older content done is rough. I'll see responses to "Level X to 99, then just go solo it". It seems the willingness to help with random stuff has vanished, and the "what do I get out of it" mindset has grown.

And herein lies the problem with old-school FFXI: large shells were only together because greedy people needed to use other people to help them get shit. People weren't friendlier or nicer or more altruistic back then, people couldn't do shit on their own so they had to pretend that they were as big of assholes as they were. The minute that no longer the case, they could go and douchebag off on their own splintering linkshells. Looking back on it, the community was suffering back then because we had to put up with shitheads like that so we could fill up alliances to do end game activities. At least now you can do things with a few friends and know that you aren't going to be stabbed in the back the moment they get what they want.

Square needs to get out of the Alliance mindset and get into the low-man mindset, Legion is never going to become popular because of this, Voidwatch is only doable because of individual loot pools which is why no one wants to do Provenance with shouts. The game has changed, they need to keep up with it.

[Yugl]

Odin does tons of Provenance shouts. We just FL the item though.

[Byrthnoth]

We use an LS majority and "We're organizing it" to lock the pool items. People hate it, but it works.

[Apelila]

Agreed Sept. I never would have reactivated if not for Abyssea/level cap increase. The fact that since Hero's they've failed to make anything half as appealing, or with anything approaching the time/reward investment ratio is why I question if the same people are in any position of authority or if Tanaka's now fucking with XI just because 14 failed and he's bitter.

[LiquidFriend]

Agreed Septimus. Abyssea saved an almost dead game. Anyone that doesn't recognize that either has some rose-tinted glasses on, or was out of touch with end-game at the time.

or had 3K bots

[NynJa]

Abyssea era:
Playerbase: Theres too much congestion with timed NM's for empyrean weapons
SE's response: "The respawn timer of certain timed NM's in abyssea has been reduced to 10-15 minutes from 30-60"

Playerbase: "Certain caturae still have such absurd spawn timers, we havent been able to narrow it down"
SE's response: "we've adjusted the caturae spawn timers"

Playerbase: "Theres a huge bottleneck at empyrean NM ???'s, lots of wasted time"
SE's response #1: "We have reduced the respawn timer of ???'s from 3 minutes to 1"
SE's response #2: "We have increased the number of ???'s to three for the following NM's *list*"

This is the era of the game that "re-ruined" FFXI, when they actually, you know, listened to fucking feedback instead of thinking their shit smells like roses.


Post Abyssea era:
Playerbase: "Fuck voidwatch and its drop rates, can you do something about it"?
SE's response: um...no

Playerbase: "Voidwatch is still fucking dumb, I'm chasing an item I'm 0/300 on and some scrub just went 2/4 in one run"
SE's response: "working as intended, we cant change anything it'll disrupt balance"

Playerbase: "My mule just got a Heka's Kalarsis...it already has one, and I still dont have one on my main, Good system, can you make it so you can add to pool if you have it"
SE's response: um...no, we cant do that, but we might add a ticket system where you'll get a tradable item if you obtain a rare/ex item that you already have, so you'll get something (btw, this ticket system got swept under the rug it seems from 8 months ago).

Playerbase: "were you guys using godmode when you tested legion?"
SE;s response: "Legion is completely doable, there are hidden strategies that you obviously havent found"

This era is totally saving FFXI!!!! I like the previous assessment: Tanaka is fucking pissed of how shitty XIV turned out with him at the helm and with his delusional thoughts probably convinced himself that were all fucking assholes for not dropping FFXI and playing that abomination he called XIV and blames us for him getting demoted.

[calinz]

And herein lies the problem with old-school FFXI: large shells were only together because greedy people needed to use other people to help them get shit. People weren't friendlier or nicer or more altruistic back then, people couldn't do shit on their own so they had to pretend that they were as big of assholes as they were. The minute that no longer the case, they could go and douchebag off on their own splintering linkshells. Looking back on it, the community was suffering back then because we had to put up with shitheads like that so we could fill up alliances to do end game activities. At least now you can do things with a few friends and know that you aren't going to be stabbed in the back the moment they get what they want.

Square needs to get out of the Alliance mindset and get into the low-man mindset, Legion is never going to become popular because of this, Voidwatch is only doable because of individual loot pools which is why no one wants to do Provenance with shouts. The game has changed, they need to keep up with it.

I couldn't agree more with this post! Especially the part where everyone was putting up a mask and pretending to be friendly. I'm sure someone will pop up and say "well you were in a shit ls" though.

Abyssea gave me hope that FFXI was heading into a casual direction where you wouldn't need 18+ ppl to do events and work for 1-2 people's items at a time. And then we have legion... which is trying to force us back to the days of big linkshells and alliances. Honestly, I think the game just needs more Salvage-like low-man events. Yes, Salvage is an 18-man battlefield, but even at 75 no one would go in with more than 6-8 people. Here's to hoping the Salvage expansion at the end of the year will be targeted towards 6 people, but knowing SE.....

[Septimus]

I couldn't agree more with this post! Especially the part where everyone was putting up a mask and pretending to be friendly. I'm sure someone will pop up and say "well you were in a shit ls" though.

I am sure that someone can try to say that, but...

http://cdn.bluegartr.com/bglogo.png

Besides, we all know that it is true; even in the best linkshell, there was always some recruit/new member who was a greedy asshole. Someone would have to be truly delusional to say otherwise.

[arus2001]

I won't say Abyssea was without fault, particularly with the "ease" it could be multi-boxed and how some came to expect everyone and their brother to have multiple accounts, but that isn't what helped FFXI stay interesting for me. It was the more definite guarantees toward loot and knowing if I wanted to take up my xth job, I wouldn't be waiting a year+ to make it passable. Yes, some mobs could be dicks, or seal distribution was questionable for some jobs, but it was virtually impossible to go 0/30+ on non-gold chest loot if you understood the system. I would've liked to see all NM KIs go into chests when they added to those pools, but most of the worst ones were covered like Guku and Amun.

Now, I know this tends to spark the debate of those who want challenge and don't really care about loot, but I'll never personally be able to remove loot from the equation. Challenge is relative, and if it isn't bullshit RNG difficulty, after a few fights and learning a mob's tricks, the truly difficult mobs just tend to become hassles if their rewards aren't good enough to sustain the interest of however many people you'll need to take them. And for those who like challenge, there are also the types of people who like to outlevel/outgear something just to so how much they can murder a given target. As much as some hate the concept, those looking to keep things hard can handicap themselves if the game lacks an immediate, desired difficulty (Like not using Atma and Cruor buffs). But the snag here is usually, "Well then why did I work so hard for all of this gear?!" That's when you start cutting down on the number of people you take if possible. Ultimately, I think some also confuse a desire for difficulty with their desire for prestige. Can't have the little guy wearing the same equipment, after all. And if you were lucky enough to get in with a good group of people, you're set. Not everyone's as fortunate and I generally tend to scoff at LS/Guild/Clan recruitment tactics since they all pretty much look the same, and rubbernecking between them trying to find that perfect fit just leads to a bunch of periods of probations and useless points no other guild will honor. It's a recipe for not making progress, and also why I favor games that take the step to eliminate player politics from loot distribution.

In the end, all sides will never be 100% happy, but stringing out the life of content through shit drop rates or designing it around a small minority leaving the rest unable to participate or fully clear isn't the way to go. That small minority clearing in a few weeks what was an anticipated few months shouldn't be the worry. Especially if it's all about the benjamins.

[machiko]

Abyssea was the revolution of FFXI, like it or not it made the game better for the vast majority of it's players. I was a hardcore player and did all the old endgame content but I still preferred the new style of content Yoshi gave us, as soon as they removed him as the lead of XI (job titles don't mean anything, it was obvious he was in charge or he would never of been given XIV) the game went down hill fast and the old gramps they have running it now puts it back to old Everquest systems. I'd hate to be Tanaka now, he failed in their main title and now ruined a safe money earner, either he is totally incompetent or he felt so responsible for XIV failing he decided to force most of the XI playerbase to XIV and try force a success. Of course it will work too, most XI players are sheep and will without a doubt try XIV if they get bored of XI, at least they know the majority of their playerbase.

Almost everyone I know has quit within the last 6 months now, I liked Abyssea a lot and since FFXI is now going to crap I've found a new FFXI Abyssea (Tera). I never thought I would ever quit FFXI, I was hopelessly addicted but they managed to piss me off enough to scare me off it after 7 years, the 99 relic trial was the last straw for me, which was funny cause I rarely even used it..was just the way they did it.

[Apelila]

I'll look at XIV once 2.0 comes out, maybe later. But honestly, the launch left such a sour taste in my mouth that even if they fix every single bitch I had about the game I would still remember it tasting like shit.

[Spira]

And herein lies the problem with old-school FFXI: large shells were only together because greedy people needed to use other people to help them get shit. People weren't friendlier or nicer or more altruistic back then, people couldn't do shit on their own so they had to pretend that they were as big of assholes as they were. The minute that no longer the case, they could go and douchebag off on their own splintering linkshells. Looking back on it, the community was suffering back then because we had to put up with shitheads like that so we could fill up alliances to do end game activities. At least now you can do things with a few friends and know that you aren't going to be stabbed in the back the moment they get what they want.

Square needs to get out of the Alliance mindset and get into the low-man mindset, Legion is never going to become popular because of this, Voidwatch is only doable because of individual loot pools which is why no one wants to do Provenance with shouts. The game has changed, they need to keep up with it.

bolded part is a bit of a sweeping statement. I agree to a certain extent, but thats how society is, not just in an MMORPG, but in the real world. However, for a good number of us, we use each other and become friends, and end up enjoying the process because we have a "symbiotic" gaming experience. I know of many friends who I met along the way in-game thru this process, and we've grown to be friends in other games and in the real world as well.

There are genuinely nice people out there, but as the numbers go by, they're definitely getting fewer over the years with the change in player mindsets in MMORPGs. The problem of SE not adapting quick enough to the changing MMORPG player is definitely apparent, but this doesn't mean that the old-school style is necessarily a problem now.

as for the part about FFXIs slow death. Look at it this way. 2008 - 2009 were slow years in its history. If it was indeed dying, it was still a slow stagnating death.
I'm not sure if you still remember, but the announcement of Abyssea and the level cap raise, even before its release, was sufficient enough to get people to quit in droves, because for them they were content with a matured MMORPG where they didn't need to strive on for levels and gear anymore. doing what they did back then did serve to inject new life into the game, but also opened a whole new can of worms. ones that we are seeing today, especially with regards to gear.

even if Abyssea didn't exist, i don't think it would have made much difference with regard to this topic. a show of hands of how many people here commenting are actually currently play the game would be indicative enough.

[Toth]

I am still playing regularly but the ridiculousness of Legion and the PW drop rates are slowly ebbing away my passion....

[Mahoro]

And herein lies the problem with old-school FFXI: large shells were only together because greedy people needed to use other people to help them get shit. People weren't friendlier or nicer or more altruistic back then, people couldn't do shit on their own so they had to pretend that they were as big of assholes as they were. The minute that no longer the case, they could go and douchebag off on their own splintering linkshells. Looking back on it, the community was suffering back then because we had to put up with shitheads like that so we could fill up alliances to do end game activities. At least now you can do things with a few friends and know that you aren't going to be stabbed in the back the moment they get what they want.

Square needs to get out of the Alliance mindset and get into the low-man mindset, Legion is never going to become popular because of this, Voidwatch is only doable because of individual loot pools which is why no one wants to do Provenance with shouts. The game has changed, they need to keep up with it.

Like Spira, I mostly agree with your statements regarding how that portion of the playerbase split off into their own. And it was actually a good result for shells like mine, because it resulted in a purge of people who were not good fits in an LS environment. When the masks fell, they fell with a dramatic boom. I notice the significant change in temperament between my shell pre-Abyssea and post-Abyssea, because the people who stuck around WANT to be there now.

I don't think it's a bad thing that we got new alliance-sized content to enjoy with those specific people. The fact that a lot of content is PUG-able is great, because people can supplement their LS activities with side activities, and then come together a few times a week to do those events best done in a LS environment (Prov Watcher, Dyna ADL/Arch-Bosses, etc., Legion, Ein). Hell, even VW is preferable in a LS environment for some of the more challenging mobs like Rex/Ig-Alima/Kalasu/Bismarck, and some of the less popular shouted mobs where you would literally have to wait hours for enough people to form a proper alliance in Port Jeuno.

I agree that they need to add some more low-man content though, because it can be tiring to do everything large-scale. Hopefully, the new Limbus and Salvage will be worth doing. And perhaps Dungeon Crawling is a new low-man event. Time will tell.

[Slycer]

I think they mentioned at some point in the past that dungeon crawling would be a party-size type thing? Maybe I'm confusing it with something else. Either way, it seems like Dungeon Crawling will be their new post-Voidwatch focus with at least three rounds of it in the coming updates, so I certainly hope its a party-size thing. I mean, they just added Legion, and the Einherjar update isn't far off, so that's enough alliance-oriented crap for this year.

[Draylo]

I couldn't agree more with this post! Especially the part where everyone was putting up a mask and pretending to be friendly. I'm sure someone will pop up and say "well you were in a shit ls" though.

Abyssea gave me hope that FFXI was heading into a casual direction where you wouldn't need 18+ ppl to do events and work for 1-2 people's items at a time. And then we have legion... which is trying to force us back to the days of big linkshells and alliances. Honestly, I think the game just needs more Salvage-like low-man events. Yes, Salvage is an 18-man battlefield, but even at 75 no one would go in with more than 6-8 people. Here's to hoping the Salvage expansion at the end of the year will be targeted towards 6 people, but knowing SE.....

Yeah pretty much... I saw it too after Abyssea changed people. Just makes you realize how people really are in this game at times.

[NynJa]

Of course it will work too, most XI players are sheep and will without a doubt try XIV if they get bored of XI, at least they know the majority of their playerbase.

Speak for yourself

I tried XIV once, and it was so fucking shitty, I have no desires to reinstall it.

[arus2001]

In retrospect, I probably got along with about 80% of the people in my old LS. Of the 20% I didn't, sometimes it was a result of them literally screwing me over in some way, some who hated how I'd "take charge" of certain things in absence of leaders, a few who got mad I played their favorite job "better" than them (and typically got rostered on it as a result), the cliques who'd never help with anything but always would ask for help when they weren't enough, with the rest just bitter I had a tendency to correct them on mistakes they'd speak over chat.

Trying to be the better person and helping them really didn't make me feel good. Occasionally I'd get wind of trash talking and had one guy who outright refused to help me because I apparently never helped him. Nevermind the fact he was EU and our play times rarely overlapped, and I probably helped him get 40% of his Ukon on top of other Abyssea items. Often when new events came out, I'd be the one relaying info gleaned from various sites so people wouldn't have to sift through giant threads and could quickly look something up on the LS site. This isn't so much me trying to pimp myself as some super awesome player, just one who would've gladly dropped them if it didn't mean alienating other friends or forfeiting the perks of LS history if it was more a matter of me jumping ship. I didn't exactly have the benefit of RL friends playing like some of these guys did, and some lived close enough that they'd have occasional get-togethers. Hard to compete with that when you're some schmuck in buttfuck Ohio.

[Selamis]

Speak for yourself

I tried XIV once, and it was so fucking shitty, I have no desires to reinstall it.

I plan to give it a try again after 2.0 and they open up the month or week, whatever they offer, of a free trial, but as soon as that trial period ends you can be assured I won't be paying for it.

[KCem]

I think a key problem with Abyssea was how quickly the level cap went up. At 80 mobs like Carabosse for example were a challenge, and required a decent amount of concentration/man power, but by 90 many of these NMs were fairly easily soloable, due mostly to skill caps rising (dramatic improvements in gear and abyssites helped a tonne too). Additionally I don't think Abyssea NMs were designed particularly well. Nothing was designed with Kirin levels of difficulty (and implying that Kirin is even tough is a stretch). I personally still find Omega a trickier solo then pretty much all of Abyssea.

These two points combined gave players the opportunity to form small break away groups, and eventually lead to the demise of many large linkshells. Why wait for a LS raid when you and a few buddies can get what you want faster and with less competition ? I stuck with my LS til the very end, where it had simply became a few friends sticking together to get what we want faster and with less competition.