Dev Tracker

[Yugl]

It sounds like they're putting a lot of effort into something that won't make the game any more fun to play again.

This. The system doesn't look suited to help GEO either since repeated exposure to an enfeeble builds resistance like the current system. They also don't realize that this undermines the usefulness of macc gear/results from skill. You know, the whole reason people bitch about RDM not being much better than other classes at enfeebling.

That said....

We do have access to immunity status thanks to this. Take that Byrth!

[NynJa]

The reverse of the elemental nerf!

[Kaisha]

This. The system doesn't look suited to help GEO either since repeated exposure to an enfeeble builds resistance like the current system. They also don't realize that this undermines the usefulness of macc gear/results from skill. You know, the whole reason people bitch about RDM not being much better than other classes at enfeebling.

I was under the impression that GEO's unique debuffs would be impossible for mobs to resist.

The reverse of the elemental nerf!

Yeah, but elemental dmg is actually worth a shit, of course it had to get nerfed, can't have nice things, unless you're a 2h DD.

[Churchill]

It sounds like they're putting a lot of effort into something that won't make the game any more fun to play again.

heart

[ronin sparthos]

It sounds like they're putting a lot of effort into something that won't make the game any more fun to play again.

Where is the play-as-a-monster information already!

Resist Hack:

[Guitarman]

thank you^ exactly what I thought about when I heard this.

[ronin sparthos]

This. The system doesn't look suited to help GEO either since repeated exposure to an enfeeble builds resistance like the current system. They also don't realize that this undermines the usefulness of macc gear/results from skill. You know, the whole reason people bitch about RDM not being much better than other classes at enfeebling.

That said....

We do have access to immunity status thanks to this. Take that Byrth!

People bitch RDM is useless because the events give no need for enfeebles as it stands. Everything is a zerg where mobs don't last long enough to be paralyzed, silenced, addled or whatever.

[Yugl]

Even if you could use enfeebles effectively, the only difference between RDM and other classes are the merit II spells and higher macc. The update undermines the latter.

[Septimus]

Even if you could use enfeebles effectively, the only difference between RDM and other classes are the merit II spells and higher macc. The update undermines the latter.

Exactly. Slow II is 39% slow when fully meritied with caped dMND, Slow I is 29% slow with capped dMND. Considering that Carnage Elegy is a straight 50% slow effect, a little extra potency doesn't really warrant a party spot. Dia III is 15% defense reduction versus Dia II's 10% defense reduction, another melee or BLM will do more damage. Paralyze II can't even be compared to Paralyze I because they are so random. Blind II... is just silly. Gravity II seems pointless when Gravity I won't land on NMs because they are terrified of RDMs with iron bladders or bottles soloing things again.

If they expect RDM to be useful, they need to give RDM unique and useful enfeebles. Otherwise this is a buff for WHM, BLM, and SCH.

[NynJa]

make tier2 debuffs stack on tier1 debuffs and adjust rdm t2 merits

[Yugl]

That would rock. 25% DEF down from dias + Angon for 50% DEF reduction.

[ronin sparthos]

Even if you could use enfeebles effectively, the only difference between RDM and other classes are the merit II spells and higher macc. The update undermines the latter.

SE claims they have plans for RDM and what those plans should involve is making enfeebles from a RDM unique and different than just a SCH or WHM throwing up Slow/Paralyze. WHM got Afflatus Solace/Misery and so RDM should have something similar that adds perks if used specifically by a RDM.

[nekura]

Considering Temper and the Gain spells, I don't really trust SE's plans for RDM...

[Draylo]

It sounds like they're putting a lot of effort into something that won't make the game any more fun to play again.

How do you know how much effort is going into this? Doesn't sound like a huge change, make x mob not immune to x debuff. It's something small, I thought we realized they are going to keep putting these small notes out and not big chunk of info all at once anymore?

[Byrthnoth]

How do you know how much effort is going into this? Doesn't sound like a huge change, make x mob not immune to x debuff. It's something small, I thought we realized they are going to keep putting these small notes out and not big chunk of info all at once anymore?

It sounds like a pretty fundamental change that they're hacking in to an entire class of magic with potential major balance implications and large potential for glitching. I wouldn't quite put this effort on the same level as what it would take to fix the enmity system, but it's by no means trivial. For instance, Scholars can achieve over 90% spell casting time reduction these days (SCH in my group this afternoon was claiming 3 second stuns). What if they use this recast reduction to cast Silence and Sleep as fast as is possible and just overpower substantial resistances with frequency?

The problem with the patch is that the above kind of unintended tomfoolery is about the only use I can see for it. I can't remember the last time I wanted someone to cast Slow or Paralyze on the monster or the last time a monster wasn't immune to Silence. Are we going to suddenly not zerg ADL because we can Slow and Paralyze him reliably? Even if we could Silence and Sleep him for full duration, we'd still zerg. Are we going to be able to Sleep Legion monsters? Probably not. Will RDM replace lolPLD as a holder in Legion with Bind and Gravity? Maybe! That's about the only non-exploity use I can see for it.

They really could learn to spend their time better.

[Genosync]

It sounds like a pretty fundamental change that they're hacking in to an entire class of magic with potential major balance implications and large potential for glitching. I wouldn't quite put this effort on the same level as what it would take to fix the enmity system, but it's by no means trivial. For instance, Scholars can achieve over 90% spell casting time reduction these days (SCH in my group this afternoon was claiming 3 second stuns). What if they use this recast reduction to cast Silence and Sleep as fast as is possible and just overpower substantial resistances with frequency?

The problem with the patch is that the above kind of unintended tomfoolery is about the only use I can see for it. I can't remember the last time I wanted someone to cast Slow or Paralyze on the monster or the last time a monster wasn't immune to Silence. Are we going to suddenly not zerg ADL because we can Slow and Paralyze him reliably? Even if we could Silence and Sleep him for full duration, we'd still zerg. Are we going to be able to Sleep Legion monsters? Probably not. Will RDM replace lolPLD as a holder in Legion with Bind and Gravity? Maybe! That's about the only non-exploity use I can see for it.

They really could learn to spend their time better.

Also, what the fuck does Paralyze, Slow, and Silence really even do for anyone anymore?

Paralyze? Ok, randomly stops a spell and auto attack. Doesn't stop homewrecking WSes (unless you're still that idiot from 2004 that claims WSes can get paralyzed). Since when was taking auto attack damage a problem anymore?

Slow? Doesn't stop mob TP gain for WSes, slows down auto attack though! Isn't that awesome! ...

Silence? Stops mob spell casting altogether, preventing Death from being cast so it can just go use a Death WS instead! And use more of them because it's spending less time casting spells! Yay!

Gravity? We still kite things often enough to give a fuck?

Bind? See gravity... I guess maybe RDMs can solo more mo... oh wait resist build.

Blind? Honestly this is probably the only potential decent thing in the whole list if it can make mob WSes that destroy everyone miss sometimes.


And while, yes, I know that the above I stated doesn't always apply, keep in mind the situations happen often enough to count...

[Genosync]

How do you know how much effort is going into this? Doesn't sound like a huge change, make x mob not immune to x debuff. It's something small, I thought we realized they are going to keep putting these small notes out and not big chunk of info all at once anymore?

This is a pretty big change to implement, if they want to implement it properly and apply it across the board for the entire game. They'll have to re-identify all the resistances, toss in the "hack" rates, make a lot of 'balance' based decisions unfortunately. So it is a bit of work, even from a non-coding aspect.

Even if it does get implemented properly, it's going to be relatively worthless to make RDM a worthwhile selection again.

[arus2001]

Spamming a spell to eventually land it doesn't bother me too much. It's the resistance building that does. So, on that end, it's like they stole the code from the Gravity nerf to presumably apply to all debuffs on NMs. I doubt the back end of the "hack" is terribly complex, either. I think what surprises me more is it sounds like they have entirely different enfeebling magic systems for (individual) mobs instead of one universal system utilizing general number plugging for resist rates and such. Just seems needlessly complex, though it may also explain the fudged up resist mechanics to begin with.

[Apelila]

The new resistance system sounds incredibly stupid. Have someone come RDM for the chance of maybe doing something that definitely isn't as useful as bringing another job. Excellent.

[drwaffles]

RDM died when MP efficiency no longer meant a thing - who needs Refresh and indirect damage reduction through Phalanx and debuffs when you simply don't need more MP? I miss the sidegrade days, at least then you didn't have this issue of power creep confounding useless developers.