Dev Tracker

[NynJa]

So you're upset with the 8 year Bush administration and now wont voice any feedback at the Obama administration because of what happened for the previous 8 years. Gotcha, makes sense.

[Yugl]

Referencing the fact that PD will make summoner less useful... of course that's the case. But purely from a design perspective, when you have an ability that essentially gives people temporary invincibility for 45 seconds, how do you properly design challenging events? You really can't. Nerfing PD doesn't have anything to do with SMN, it's much more fundamental to the current and future design of the game as a whole. The ability should never have been introduced to begin with, at least not in the form that it's in. But it was, and now they're finally fixing it... and hopefully they quickly fix the content that was boosted to insane levels of difficulty (mostly in the form of various types of instant death) because of its existence. The fact that it will break summoner's utility is the lesser of two evils, because as it is now it breaks the game as a whole.

Similarly with Embrava, how can you justify its existence when you have two jobs whose sole purpose, essentially, are to buff other jobs, and yet the single most powerful buff in the game (by a long shot) is given to another job entirely? It's not as game-breaking as Perfect Defense in a sense because you can still cap haste and get regain/regen from other sources, but it is, as Tanaka might have said, incredibly unbalanced.

Arguably, SCH's unique roles are DOT and buffs, so I thematically, the 2hr spells work. Furthermore, BRD and COR have adapted by taking on Attack and Accuracy enhancing roles. Neither of those is superfluous given the mobs fought.

[pchan]

SMN has it's use, and my intense ADL farming let me use it's full potential. On ADL schock squall and PD makes the difference between life and death - also ifrit enfire is a huge boost (40 damage on average), especially to my monks. For odious farming hastega allows you to spend less time buffing and favor/enfire come on top of it. For NM farming it's a must because you spend several minutes at each camp (full benefit of favor and enfire) and fleet wind lasts longer than mazurka (very time savy for when you switch camps). All in all if ADL is nerfed and PD is no longer required I would still use SMN when farming the pop NMs, though I would replace it with a whm for ADL (assuming it's actually killable).

[Tarage]

So you're upset with the 8 year Bush administration and now wont voice any feedback at the Obama administration because of what happened for the previous 8 years. Gotcha, makes sense.

Bad example. I'm a republican.

[Eurell]

How? Are republicans forbidden from voicing feedback now?

[Yugl]

The point of the "analogy" is to say that you can offer a response to a new and accepting administration even if the old administration has responded poorly to criticism. If he's a republican, you could say either 1) The previous administration was responsive or 2) the incoming administration (Obama) isn't responsive because that's the party opposing his party preference. That's probably why he made that comment.

[NynJa]

Way to completely ignore the basis of my example

[Tarage]

Way to completely ignore the basis of my example

I'm just getting tired of arguing with you at this point.

[NynJa]

I'm just getting tired of arguing with you at this point.

Yeah, it can be pretty annoying to argue when you're wrong to begin with.

[Tarage]

Yeah, it can be pretty annoying to argue when you're wrong to begin with.

No, it's more like you respond negativly to every damn thing I say to the point where I don't even care what you are saying anymore. If you haven't noticed, I've been trying to end the argument for the last few posts, but you keep coming back in to say something else to drag me back in.

I'll make it simple for you. This thread has been derailed enough by our argument so I'm ending it. Say whatever you want to say and get your last word in, because I won't be responding to you any more.

[NynJa]

No, it's more like you respond negativly to every damn thing I say

All of these bleeding hearts who are suddenly trying to be nice to the guy because he has an 'illness' are hypocrites. I'm still glad he's gone, and if that 'illness' is what got his ass out the door, then I'm still glad. He was not a good developer, or a good person.

I wonder why...

[Slycer]

Arguably, SCH's unique roles are DOT and buffs, so I thematically, the 2hr spells work. Furthermore, BRD and COR have adapted by taking on Attack and Accuracy enhancing roles. Neither of those is superfluous given the mobs fought.

I don't think anyone would argue that, in a fundamental sense, the 2-hour spells "work" -- but by the same example you provide, why does Embrava have haste, especially such an extremely high value of it? It should really just be regen and regain. Scholar doesn't even get the spell haste without WHM or RDM sub. Regardless, even if they "work," Embrava is clearly ridiculously overpowered as compared to Kaustra, and, as I said above, it's the single most powerful buff in the game given to a job whose primary intented role is clearly not buffing.

[Yugl]

The DOTs aside, SCH's only unique arsenal includes a few JAs (Self Buffs on Spell + Perpetuance indicate buff orientation), storms, regain, regen, and animus. Those all buffs. In fact, our only non-subbable and unique spells are buffs. As for haste being "random", I don't think this is the first time a 2hr has been unrelated to the class itself. Warrior has nothing to do with critical hits. Black mage has nothing to do with unlimited MP. Corsair has exactly one ability to restore other abilities.

[Chamaan]

Corsairs are basically Setzer from FFVI and his default outcome from Slots was to restore HP/status to the party. Black Mage spells are expensive to cast and Manafont was designed in the era of hMP sets. Warriors hit shit. Hit it hard. Those two hours seem pretty job related to me.

[CoreyX]

SCH is SE's answer to "Time Mage". It was released during Wings of the Goddess, a time-based expansion. While obviously not a full-blown time mage in every manner, Embrava fits in perfectly with the "over time" theme. Regain, regen, and haste are all time-related to go along with kaustra and helices. Plus the name fits, it's basically "Brave" from FF Tactics which was an important stat for units, and in FFXI lore SCH are military tacticians, it wouldn't be out of the realm of the possibility for them to have developed a martial technique that greatly enhances the attack speed of the units they're deploying in battle

[Tarage]

SCH is SE's answer to "Time Mage". It was released during Wings of the Goddess, a time-based expansion. While obviously not a full-blown time mage in every manner, Embrava fits in perfectly with the "over time" theme. Regain, regen, and haste are all time-related to go along with kaustra and helices. Plus the name fits, it's basically "Brave" from FF Tactics which was an important stat for units, and in FFXI lore SCH are military tacticians, it wouldn't be out of the realm of the possibility for them to have developed a martial technique that greatly enhances the attack speed of the units they're deploying in battle

Really, you can call Kasutra what it ought to be called: Meltdown.

[Slycer]

The DOTs aside, SCH's only unique arsenal includes a few JAs (Self Buffs on Spell + Perpetuance indicate buff orientation), storms, regain, regen, and animus. Those all buffs. In fact, our only non-subbable and unique spells are buffs. As for haste being "random", I don't think this is the first time a 2hr has been unrelated to the class itself. Warrior has nothing to do with critical hits. Black mage has nothing to do with unlimited MP. Corsair has exactly one ability to restore other abilities.

None of this really changes the fact that Embrava is ridiculously overpowered when compared to other pre-existing buffs in the game. Honestly, with a three minute timer, Tabula Rasa alone, without any additional unique spells, should be enough for SCH's 2-hour. The problem, however, is that SCH has no really great unique spells without Tabula Rasa up. If Adloquium was, say, 3/tick regain and castable outside party, or SCH had some other good unique spells (maybe double weather, castable inside or outside party, with a more potent Stormsurge bonus), then using Tabula Rasa to get up several Accession/Perpetuance versions of those buffs would be quite useful. Similarly, if there were more potent, and perhaps stackable (in the same way as Burn/Choke/Shock, for instance) tier 2 helices that SCH could use, rather than Kaustra. However, without any decently powerful spells to cast, Tabula Rasa's benefit falls flat. What they should have done (and what they should do, once they nerf Embrava), is either enhance current spells or give SCH some new unique spells that better take advantage of the utility of stratagems, so that Tabula Rasa can noticeably improve them. An alternative to this would be to power up the stratagems during Tabula Rasa. For example, have Perpetuance be 3x instead of 2x duration, reduce or eliminate the MP penalty on Accession, etc., etc.

[Obsidian]

SCH may have no "great" exclusive spells, but it's still head and shoulders above RDM in terms of utility, with or without Embrava and Kaustra.

Even with these "nerfs", SCH and SMN still have practical use. RDM (and PLD, but at this point that goes without saying) doesn't. Bottom tier healing and mediocre buffs, the most useful of which are self-target only.

[Byrthnoth]

PLD has a use. They hold adds. RDM doesn't have a use really.

[Taim Meich]

And, if you were in charge to nerf Embrava, what would you do? I've been thinking about it myself, and I think that a good solution would be removing haste from it entirely, and up the other two effects a bit. Something like a Regen of 100-120 and a Regain of 8-10 at 500 skill. Would still be really good (specially at the high end of those values), but at least it would make marches relevant again.