Dev Tracker

[scaevola]

ITT people who dual-box a half-controlled WHM to kill a bunch of content blame that content for being easy and not WHM for being overpowered

[NynJa]

Brew became standard the moment it was released

I hate to break it to you idiot, but brews were there from the start of visions of abyssea. Unless you have a different rendition of what "released" means, in english it means "when it was created" not "when abyssite of the cosmos makes it worth 200k"

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/De...Q%26A:_Abyssea

* killing a salvage boss is replaced by killing a mob with the same difficulty as a wild rabbit.

Glavoid has the same difficulty as a wild rabbit?
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/955...ngi-Discussion
Feel free to go through that thread when Visions was still 80 cap zone. Go see how easy to wild rabbits were to an alliance of 12+.

The only thing that I found difficult when I came back with mdk was beating glavoid with no atma.

Only an idiot would build a house without the foundation laid out. But regardess, you still entered "ashittea" when the cap was 90 or 95, those 10-15 levels over 80 cap content make a huge difference.

But now that I think about, ask the average joe to brew it and you are done in 10 seconds.

Most people who brew glavoid wind up wiping because they keep healing it.

[arus2001]

Or SE dropping the ball on actual follow-up content in access, difficulty, reward, or some combination of the three. The "buffs" are there to help prevent the CoP days of everybody being done with nobody wanting to help backtrack for you. Instead of needing 6+ people for shit, you can become as strong as 3+ people, more with the brew if you're willing. Not everyone fucking dual-boxes, so that's a BS one, too.

And now I'm mad I even bothered to comment further on this tripe.

[TSFFXI]

Maybe they'll surprise us with upping the merit cap to 5 instead of 3 weaponskills!

[Septimus]

Yet how many people continued to play, and continued to make more Empyreans and stay subscribed? When did subscriptions start to decline again? If I have to explain this to you, and show you the Tanaka Map of the Barance, I've lost all hope.

Holy hell, I want to see the "Tanaka Map of Barance." I am picturing one of the old-school drama maps, but chock full of Balance.

Most people quit because of voidwatch's atrocities, their iron fist to "personalized loot", the disgusting low drop rates (if you consider there are 18 loot pools per fight, and the top tier rare drops in 1 pool per 12 fights, thats a drop rate of 0.00463%), the lovely random number generator giving the same people the same rare loot...their "adjustment" to letting rare loot move around was a fucking joke too. "were only gonna let the rare of the rare loot be turned into pulse cells, the other shit isnt rare enough and if you want it you'll keep farming for it".

The sad part is that the idea behind a personalized loot pool is a good one, a very good one. (I don't mean the 0.0000000000000001% drop rates, just the individual loot.) The execution was tremendously flawed, if we could move loot that we didn't want into the main treasure pool, that would have gone a long way towards fixing it. If when the pool attempted to load something that the person already had caused it to go into another person's pool, that would have gone a long way towards fixing it. If all of the mobs were like Provenance Watcher where they could drop an item in the main pool along with the personal pool, it would have gone a long way towards fixing it. It is just one of those things where it is so close to good, but they refused to take the extra step to make it good so it stays in the suck zone.

[Tarage]

My fucking god people have an irrational hatred of Abyssea. It's fucking Stockholm Syndrome. "Please don't stop whipping me!"

[Selamis]

The sad part is that the idea behind a personalized loot pool is a good one, a very good one. (I don't mean the 0.0000000000000001% drop rates, just the individual loot.) The execution was tremendously flawed, if we could move loot that we didn't want into the main treasure pool, that would have gone a long way towards fixing it. If when the pool attempted to load something that the person already had caused it to go into another person's pool, that would have gone a long way towards fixing it. If all of the mobs were like Provenance Watcher where they could drop an item in the main pool along with the personal pool, it would have gone a long way towards fixing it. It is just one of those things where it is so close to good, but they refused to take the extra step to make it good so it stays in the suck zone.

Maybe, just maybe, we might be lucky enough to get this changed in the future. Not holding out any hope of it actually happening, but maybe without Tanaka to say no SE might make it change.

[Septimus]

My fucking god people have an irrational hatred of Abyssea. It's fucking Stockholm Syndrome. "Please don't stop whipping me!"

It seems that a lot of the hatred of Abyssea stems from everything that happened after Abyssea was over.

[arus2001]

It seems that a lot of the hatred of Abyssea stems from everything that happened after Abyssea was over.

[NynJa]

It seems that a lot of the hatred of Abyssea stems from everything that happened after Abyssea was over.

all of the "elitist jerks" got their good gear and then realized all the "gimps could get their pocket whm and duo everything with brews" and get the same good gear lol.

my guess

[Damane]

It seems that a lot of the hatred of Abyssea stems from everything that happened after Abyssea was over.

which i personally do understand. While I am now bored of abyssea, its only because it is an olde event. Hell I was bored of Dynamis fast too and all the other events, after some amount of time. Tough I still enjoy abyssea, just because of the fact that when I enter for 2 hours only there, I can accomplish something, or feel like I took a step onto accomplishing something bigger. On the other hand I can do 4 hours of Voidwatch and get like nothing... That is just plain wrong.

What really made FFXI worse, was the fact that the dev team started to design mobs around the need of PD or Fanatic drinks, instead of just actually doing the long overdue things (and more timeconsuming work for them) of actually fixing the enmity system, nerfing PD, and design mobs that are interesting to fight without the need of PD. I dont mind if some fights need 2-3 key jobs to get around the gimmick/point, but if the gimmick involved a 2 hour its just plain retarded. Hell you can even design mobs that prevent zerging if you just code something along the line of "activiate potent dread spikes, if %HP is reached before blahblahblah amount of time has passed".

Or they could have designed a mob that spawns adds, which could and needed to be charmed to throw them back at the main mob to debuff it with some kind of en-debuff on the adds active. I dont know, lots of possibilitys.
or how about makeing for once attack down/STR down debuffs important on some fights etc.

My guess is this is also the reason why the new producer wants to reduce the recast timer of 2 hours to 30min and nerf their potency to some extent, so they can start to actually design mobs that are not a PD/embrava/zergfest anymore.

[Septimus]

which i personally do understand. While I am now bored of abyssea, its only because it is an olde event. Hell I was bored of Dynamis fast too and all the other events, after some amount of time. Tough I still enjoy abyssea, just because of the fact that when I enter for 2 hours only there, I can accomplish something, or feel like I took a step onto accomplishing something bigger. On the other hand I can do 4 hours of Voidwatch and get like nothing... That is just plain wrong.

What really made FFXI worse, was the fact that the dev team started to design mobs around the need of PD or Fanatic drinks, instead of just actually doing the long overdue things (and more timeconsuming work for them) of actually fixing the enmity system, nerfing PD, and design mobs that are interesting to fight without the need of PD. I dont mind if some fights need 2-3 key jobs to get around the gimmick/point, but if the gimmick involved a 2 hour its just plain retarded. Hell you can even design mobs that prevent zerging if you just code something along the line of "activiate potent dread spikes, if %HP is reached before blahblahblah amount of time has passed".

Or they could have designed a mob that spawns adds, which could and needed to be charmed to throw them back at the main mob to debuff it with some kind of en-debuff on the adds active. I dont know, lots of possibilitys.
or how about makeing for once attack down/STR down debuffs important on some fights etc.

My guess is this is also the reason why the new producer wants to reduce the recast timer of 2 hours to 30min and nerf their potency to some extent, so they can start to actually design mobs that are not a PD/embrava/zergfest anymore.

Abyssea was bridge content to get us from 75 to 90, the problem is that the content from 90 and onwards was very poorly designed. Abyssea, while not perfect, was a step in the right direction that had a very good risk to reward ratio; everything that came after it did not. Abyssea had mobs with interesting gimmicks that were not instant-death radius bullshit you could live through, everything that came after it most certainly did not. People are looking at the failings of Voidwatch and Legion and saying "Abyssea, why you suck so much?"

Honestly, if they could remove fanatics from Voidwatch and make it so that the mobs weren't shooting out insta-sodomy ever 15 seconds, it would be a lot better as an event. Once more, it goes back to "so close to good, but they refused to take the extra step to make it good so it stays in the suck zone."

[Tarage]

Why fix what's broke when you can invent new half-assed content like mole people!

[Raen Ryong]

Abyssea was bridge content to get us from 75 to 90, the problem is that the content from 90 and onwards was very poorly designed. Abyssea, while not perfect, was a step in the right direction that had a very good risk to reward ratio; everything that came after it did not. Abyssea had mobs with interesting gimmicks that were not instant-death radius bullshit you could live through, everything that came after it most certainly did not. People are looking at the failings of Voidwatch and Legion and saying "Abyssea, why you suck so much?"

Honestly, if they could remove fanatics from Voidwatch and make it so that the mobs weren't shooting out insta-sodomy ever 15 seconds, it would be a lot better as an event. Once more, it goes back to "so close to good, but they refused to take the extra step to make it good so it stays in the suck zone."

I agree entirely. The relative ease of upgrading gear and such in Abyssea was fine as an intermediate event - a place where everyone, from very low tier players to high skill veterans, could improve their gear and get to this strong baseline level. Then 90-99 content should've been difficult (and not in a gimmicky Voidwatch-type way) with expectations of AF3+2~ gear levels and such. Abyssea as a way of normalising people and making it possible for everyone to achieve the gear level/actual level necessary to participate in their expanded 90-99+ content, as opposed to hitting 75... then having to grind and grind to get 90... and then having to grind HNM/limbus/etc for gear to be able to participate in 90 events...

Historically, FFXI has always been about a lot of timesink and tedium for marginal upgrades. Abyssea changed this and I was sorely hoping the 90+ endgame would continue the trend, with reasonable difficulty to obtain incredible items, many of which were significant increases. Abyssea, while not perfect, wasn't the problem. The problem was that Abyssea and 90-99 are incoherent and based on two radically different design principles.

[Yugl]

Everyone shut up about the drop rate. Next mentions get infractions. Removing posts meanwhile.

[Nightfyre]

It seems that a lot of the hatred of Abyssea stems from everything that happened after Abyssea was over.

Seems that way. I dislike the way procs marginalized all but a handful of jobs and I think RR/MM/Apoc were overkill, but that's basically the extent of my complaints with the event. 200k brews were debateably overkill, but so was Shinryu itself and the two are very much tied together. Brew locking is also a consideration in this that often seems to be overlooked, and I'd guess that the devs failed to anticipate it.

Ironically, the merit WS went a decent way towards re-balancing DDs in Abyssea due to their high WSC. They were just too late and nobody cared anyway because of the proc system.

[NynJa]

I dislike the way procs marginalized all but a handful of jobs

Same shit in dynamis though, but thats widely regarded as a successful overhaul.

[Khajit]

Seems that way. I dislike the way procs marginalized all but a handful of jobs and I think RR/MM/Apoc were overkill, but that's basically the extent of my complaints with the event. 200k brews were debateably overkill, but so was Shinryu itself and the two are very much tied together. Brew locking is also a consideration in this that often seems to be overlooked, and I'd guess that the devs failed to anticipate it.

Ironically, the merit WS went a decent way towards re-balancing DDs in Abyssea due to their high WSC. They were just too late and nobody cared anyway because of the proc system.

Jobs were marginalized by the playerbase before abyssea started up. Sam/war/mnk were the only allowed DD. Whm was okayish. BLm was banished to mount Z and the only reason linkshells used them was because they hadn't figured out a single DD with some buffs could do more damage. Thf existed to DIE.9/10 of the time that's what I was made to do in any endgame event. Just go out there and die. Drk could tank but you had to convince and explain to a ls that drk could tank in the first place since alot of people were living in 2004. Brd and cor didn't get marginalized or stop being used in abyssea. People just didn't want to share loot with one when the mob would die without them anyway.

[Mojo]

Why are people still having this discussion?

[Mojo]

Also, would it be feasible to split this thread, or perhaps find some way to make searching through it for actual information possible? I'm not fluent in vBulletin or I'd make a suggestion. Having to sort through lengthy and often pointless discussion to find out if anything new has actually been posted in the thread is not ideal lol.