Cross-post Suggestions Thread for Official FFXIV Forums

[Psion]

I wouldn't mind a talent tree myself, just so long as you aren't limited forever. One of the things I enjoyed most about FFXI was that I could change to any class I wanted to, merit anything I wanted to, and if I didn't like my merits I could get rid of them and merit something else.

I would hate to lose that ability to change my mind, something I do a lot of, in this game.

[Hyan]

con
-You lose some player-player interaction by limiting the repair between players (crafter could still repair their own gears using the repair kit)

What if... the repair kits were sold by crafters without the need of a repair NPC? There is the factor that hunting down specific repair kits can be slightly bothersome (so they should make them generalized enough and not item-specific at least) but the good side is that you could carry them with you at all times and the crafters could see the results of their efforts easier with the system being more transparent (through players buying from each other instead of there being a middleman). They could and should also make them stack, maybe not to 99 but 6-12 at least.

Either way I'm not saying that I disagree with your idea. Something like this should be done.

The biggest difference is that talent trees gives developper more control over what can be done, which ultimately, is very important to balance the game and give every classes an unique flavor.

Yeah I can see that. I'm not sure how hard it would make it for them if there wasn't any specific "paths" to pick that open up new abilities within a single specialization, but they should do what they feel they can work with in the future. Obviously through action costs they can already control what we can or can't assign... but if that isn't good enough for them they need to limit it even further.

EDIT: Also, looking at the forums it makes me wonder whether we're going to see a harsher death penalty soon >_>;

[Kaylia]

What if... the repair kits were sold by crafters without the need of a repair NPC? There is the factor that hunting down specific repair kits can be slightly bothersome (so they should make them generalized enough and not item-specific at least) but the good side is that you could carry them with you at all times and the crafters could see the results of their efforts easier with the system being more transparent (through players buying from each other instead of there being a middleman). They could and should also make them stack, maybe not to 99 but 6-12 at least.

The less often I enter the market ward, the better it is!


But seriously, here is the few reasons why I prefer the middle man option .

1) Controlling money input/output. This game need a money sink badly, and it would allow them to control that easily (ie:crafter receive 5k, repair cost 10k). With such system, you can fix any unwanted inflation by changing a single variable. It's obviously not the only way, but why not? It can't hurt
2) The goals was to reduce the amount of time wasted running around to accomplish something as trivial as repairing your gears. You can reduce the amount of different "repair kit needed", but you can't have goldsmith, weaponsmith, and tailors stuff overlap. You also need some sort of separation between level, so in the end, you would always end up carrying 5-10 repairs kit, which is something I wanted to avoid
3) It gives crafter a perk since they can self repair at cheaper cost than everyone else
4) Having a large amount of "repair kit" recipes allow a large part of the economy to be stimulated.
5) The human factor doesnt count much when its stuff sold on the AH (market ward). I do appreciate when someone repair my gears before behest, but something like this would be lost already with repair-kit.


It's not the only way to do it, and I personally wouldnt mind if it was downgraded (or upgraded) to something as simple as WoW, but if they want to put the emphasis on crafting content, I think the idea could work well, and is relatively simple to implement.

Yeah I can see that. I'm not sure how hard it would make it for them if there wasn't any specific "paths" to pick that open up new abilities within a single specialization, but they should do what they feel they can work with in the future. Obviously through action costs they can already control what we can or can't assign... but if that isn't good enough for them they need to limit it even further.

If they fill talent trees with useless WSs similar to what we have, it wouldn't improve the situation. You have to put some thinking in the system no matter what.

[Hyan]

But seriously, there is a few reasons why I like the middle man option

I agree that 1) would help the economy more than marketplace tax would. I think my approach would also help with 2), only in a different way (no need to run to repair NPC). Your inventory issue made me think about a bag for all the kits you have on you, that would only take one inv. space. I'm sure other MMO's have something like this, and I think it could be used to further polish the current inv. system as a whole, not just the kits.

As for why not, I was just thinking about how the con of the system could be turned into a pro.

If they fill talent trees with useless WSs similar to what we have, it wouldn't improve the situation. You have to put some thinking in the system no matter what. There need to be passive and active talents that share some synergy to make it worthwhile.

So is the problem the fact that there are useless WSs or that there is no talent tree? I don't disagree with that, but if they can make the current ws more useful and keep the system largely as-is..

Basically the problem I have is that of course there is the min/max build, but if there are situations in which other skills can be used I think it should be made simple to change when needed. Instead of keeping the same build because it's too bothersome/limited to change the build "for just one event/fight", or because with the situational skill you would have to unlock and use skills that aren't necessarily needed just to get to use that one situational skill (which surely exist).

[Hyan]

double

EDIT: I don't think the repair kit discussion will lead us anywhere. I'll just post my suggestion and you can post yours, the devs can decide what to do. Both should work anyhow.

[Kaeko]

As good as DoTs are(even with horridly unreliable accuracy), nothing comes close to touching 2K Quick Nocks every regimen rotation. Everything else is rendered obsolete.

It's interesting you bring this up.

I'm assuming you mean stacking Quick Nock in the 7th or 8th slot of the BR. You could alternatively stack something like Profundity Tier2 nuke and get about 1200-1500, so I think the damage is more a product of the slot in the BR rather than anything else. While this does encourage the overall use of teamwork etc. it is a bit overpowered. But its effectiveness in the current system should be reduced in max 8 party size since you likely won't have 8/8 players in every BR for safety issue on 'hard' mobs.

[Tomino]

In response to the advanced classes design, I'd like to suggest to give "weapon types" much more weight in light of what FF14 was originally meant to be:

Gladiators are, basically, 1 hand light weapons user. Paladin works and so does Beast Master, Warrior (in FF11 original design, 1H axes and aggressive concept). I'd even dare to put Red Mage here, meant as a mix of swordplay and magic. Also, it's true the class does get Ambidextrous, but I think that should be the key point of Pugilist.

Marauders are 2hand heavy weapons user so Dark Knight and maybe Berserk.

Pugilists are dedicated to wield light weapons in both hands, so I'm ok with Monk, Thief and Ninja.

Conjurers are tied to staves but also, lore wise, to more "straight" magical effects so basic FF mage work here, Black Mages and White Mages.

Thaumaturges, on the other hand, feel like the "alt" magic users so they'd fit Time Mage, Summoner, Scholar and anything that doesnt include direct effects such as nukes or cures.

Archers are tied to ranged weapons so Ranger and Corsair are perfect choices.

Finally, Lancers are 2hand weapons users (and it conflicts with Marauder), but they could stretch the idea of them being much more versatile, mobile and unique looking, tieing them to Dragoon and Samurai.

[Kurokikaze]

I agree that 1) would help the economy more than marketplace tax would. I think my approach would also help with 2), only in a different way (no need to run to repair NPC). Your inventory issue made me think about a bag for all the kits you have on you, that would only take one inv. space. I'm sure other MMO's have something like this, and I think it could be used to further polish the current inv. system as a whole, not just the kits.

As for why not, I was just thinking about how the con of the system could be turned into a pro.



So is the problem the fact that there are useless WSs or that there is no talent tree? I don't disagree with that, but if they can make the current ws more useful and keep the system largely as-is..

Basically the problem I have is that of course there is the min/max build, but if there are situations in which other skills can be used I think it should be made simple to change when needed. Instead of keeping the same build because it's too bothersome/limited to change the build "for just one event/fight", or because with the situational skill you would have to unlock and use skills that aren't necessarily needed just to get to use that one situational skill (which surely exist).

When repair kits were initially proposed I thought to myself that it'd be great if they used the range scheme they have now for the wards: Low/Mid/High. The kits would be further classified by craft. So you would have Low/Mid/High Armorer kits for any gear that Armorer can repair.

No you're right, they DONT need a talent tree because the current Actions menu accomplishes that except that it's menu driven and not visual. They work identically except that the trees give you a visual representation. The best example I could give is this (btw I don't care if you like the license board from 12 or not. just using it as an example):

Spoiler: show

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...censeBoard.png

Imagine this. Now take all the abilities/traits that are currently in our Actions menu and place them on the board. Scatter them out appropriately throughout the board (cures for WHM, nukes for CON and debuffs for RDM). They would also need to add in things that help that class (WHM would have like +5% potency, RDM could have +5% cure casting). Not just limited to stats like that they can get really crazy (BLM: When an offensive magic spell crits your next cast will have 20% of its cost reduced)

Now you further divide each section (impose limits to prevent abuse) into levels. Keep it simple for now with 5 levels. You need to put a certain amount of points into BLM Lv1 before you can use points on abilities/skills/traits in BLM Lv2. This would prevent overreaching that is happening now with people using Rank 30+ traits on different classes.

So you get what I'm saying? They don't need the tree or the talent points. Thats just a visual representation of what they currently have in place in the Action Menu.

Edit: Anyways lets limit talk about to spec thing to either PMs or the actual forums since its already up. This is halting conversations on the other things that people brought up; repair kits / enmity issues.

[Shuichi]

Yes. They can actually keep the current action/trait system that's in place and just apply the rulesets already in-game for various abilities. For example (just picking random numbers here to illustrate point):

Advanced Class: Black Mage (R25)
Total Action Points Available: 30
Spell I want to equip on action bar:
Flare 2 - (Required Level: BLM R25, Action Points Required 10)
Flood 2 - (Required Level: BLM R25, Action Points Required 10)
Aspir - (Required Level: BLM R25, Action Points Required 5)
Bio - (Required Level: BLM R25, Action Points Required 5)


Under this scenario they can allow class identity and at the same time address class balance by using action points to limit how many powerful abilities a player can equip.

[Hyan]

Edit: Anyways lets limit talk about to spec thing to either PMs or the actual forums since its already up. This is halting conversations on the other things that people brought up; repair kits / enmity issues.

Yeah, I'm Betelgeuzah in there btw.

I posted this in the general section mistakingly, but I guess it can be discussed here separately if anyone has something in mind or wants to correct my flawed idea:

dev1017 Introduction of new synthesis concepts / dev1015 Revision of battle and quest rewards:

Spoiler: show

In the Letter of the Producer, this is said:

Ability to obtain weapons and armor via battle loot and quest rewards

While I can see why the change is being made, I have one particular issue with this concept: What happens to Crafting?

Essentially, to make sure that crafting in this game is relevant, their services should be needed. They should be able to make a difference, otherwise there is no point to having them, at least as a 'real' classes. Their greatest functions so far have been the ability to make most items in the game (almost exclusively), as well as using their services as the only way to repair your equipment to it's full 100% condition.

However, with the recent change in ideology to shift the acquisition of equipment towards quests and other NPC-based features, crafters will sooner or later be faced with the harsh reality; they are no longer needed in the game if nothing is done about the issue. They can still repair equipment to 100%, sure, but that is hardly something worthy of being proud of or in any way a good enough reason alone to stick to being a crafter. The Disciples of Land are facing the same fate as well, although less so.

Therefore I would like hearing what the development team has to say about this issue, and whether their plans to introduce new synthesis concepts take into account the fact that their other changes are ruining the game for crafters, little by little?

Secondly, I would like to discuss with the community what they could do to address the issue for the time being, and if both systems can co-exist together.

Something I've seen talked about in other forums is a feature to enhance current equipment even further through crafting. Essentially, you could get by without having to buy your equipment from a crafter via questing and such, but by using the services of crafters you could also enhance the equipment you gained from questing or bought from crafters. The enhancement could include higher wear status, improvements to existing stats of the equipment or new additional effects. I'm not sure if the enhancement should be made temporary, but if so, the rate at which the effects disappear should be made a) very slow (weeks perhaps) and b) instant. By instant I mean that the effects wouldn't decrease 'over-time' but once the enhancement wears off, you lose all the beneficial stats- at once, not little by little as the enhancement's power weakens. The main purpose of this system would be to make crafters relevant, needed, and at the same time not make it too inconvenient and bothersome for those that have their items enhanced.

Next post
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Instead of making it so the enhancement wears over time, they could simply make it rare/exclusive to remove it from circulation. I don't know why I didn't think of it before, either way that's a good suggestion imo. Not to mention that quests like this should be unrepeatable so that every player can obtain one piece of gear from the quest, but once enhanced crafters are needed to make more pieces for circulation.

[Kurokikaze]

Alright to keep this all in order and we no what is being replied to, suggested on, etc I'm proposing a new rule on this thread:

I've edited the 2nd post in the OP to include every section we are discussing (dev tags), the actual proposal, and the user's name. If you wish to reply to something that they have suggested please do it like this (for this thread only of course)

[devtag - Poster you're replying to]
blah blah blah blah here.

Repeat if replying to different posters in the same post. This way it'll be easier to manage the 5+ conversations that are going to be happening here.

If I missed anything in either OP please let me know.

[Shazaam]

[dev1033] Changes to class names

[dev1032] Changes to actions for Disciplines of War & Magic classes


Tangent: Is it just me, or is the tracking of dev tags and the forum discussion itself more fun than the actual game right now?

Railed:

Kaze I am trying to follow your plan on the forums, but like I said: Sphere Grid, Talent Tree, License Board... it is all the same concept with a different GUI.

I think for many of the readers of that thread (which is BLOWING UP), it might just be a question of the GUI itself that convinces them, not mechanics or theorycraft.

I for one would probably be much happier with the EXACT same game when given a better interface than the current action/skill screen.

The license board is nice. But it is... well... overwhelming. I am not asking you to make a nice pretty picture, but maybe some of the BGers can...

(and thanks for the FC shoutout... I regret having to say that watching those vids and the anticipation during beta ended up being more fun for me than the game itself..)

Can anyone make a GUI-sim that makes the theory 'PoP'? Not just a flowchart (and those are very nice and impressive)... but something that looks... 'clickable'?

Just a suggestion, as this is very far from my realm of expertise.


Edit: actually, if anyone could do this well, keep it to yourself and make millions developing the next MMO.... really...

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah the people over there are perfectly content with pretty pictures as opposed to the logic/balancing going on in the background: which is another reason why I think any type of talent trees works and why I think we should keep conversations of concepts over here before submitting them. lol

Also like any fanboy... if you mention FFT they seem to jizz in pants. I loved tactics but its getting out of hand. -_-

[Psion]

Minor detail, kisada... it's Psion, not Scion. lol (although you pronounce them pretty much the same)

Thanks for posting my thread on the OP though. :D

[Kurokikaze]

Brain fart, that was me. Sorry.

And thats what this is for.

Edit: Shazaam I'm working on that mockup now using the license board as a starting ground. Hella bored at work lol.

[Psion]

Much better

[Sephiroth]

As good as DoTs are(even with horridly unreliable accuracy), nothing comes close to touching 2K Quick Nocks every regimen rotation. Everything else is rendered obsolete.

I never use Quick Nock in NM fights because of the 2k TP requirement. Don't discount Bloodletter, I stuck that on Dodore for 1050 damage once even before I had Cadence. Then the effect stuck so some DoT was on there plus the 500 damage dealt when it wears off. That's for 1k TP. But maybe getting 2k Quick Nock is easier than getting a good Bloodletter like that? I may have to try it.


Anyway I posted a nice suggestion yesterday regarding HQ synths but it largely got ignored. Of course it's not a major issue right now but neither is anything regarding crafting right now if you want to see things that way. My idea is basically about making HQ jewellery and DoH/L gear useful. I couldn't find a dev tag that it could go under.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ove-HQ-Results

[Cichy]

I'm hoping people wont just resort to calling for the comeback of the old classes. I personally was looking forward to some new classes. Musketeer, Arcanist, Gunblade class?


[dev1026] Changes to claiming/engaging enemies
The only thing that should be changed here is the issue with levequests where monsters immediately go for the person who activated the leve. It's really frustrating especially when you set the leve on a higher difficulty and up to 3 monsters can come up and kill your mage because of the way its been programed.
Furthermore, I really hope that there will be no change that allows other people to hit your claimed monster, it only going to dumb down the game and open up a gateway for MPK by other players. Also, it will hinder any strategic planning as you will be simply able to fight a NM with unlimited number of people instead of your group building teamwork.

[kisada]

[dev1017 - hyan]

Yeah, I'm Betelgeuzah in there btw.

I posted this in the general section mistakingly, but I guess it can be discussed here separately if anyone has something in mind or wants to correct my flawed idea:

dev1017 Introduction of new synthesis concepts / dev1015 Revision of battle and quest rewards:

it's funny cause when i read the first part of your post, i was thinking "oh one easy thing to do would be to let crafters do enhancements."

gimme a link and description and i'll plug it into OP

[kisada]

I never use Quick Nock in NM fights because of the 2k TP requirement. Don't discount Bloodletter, I stuck that on Dodore for 1050 damage once even before I had Cadence. Then the effect stuck so some DoT was on there plus the 500 damage dealt when it wears off. That's for 1k TP. But maybe getting 2k Quick Nock is easier than getting a good Bloodletter like that? I may have to try it.


Anyway I posted a nice suggestion yesterday regarding HQ synths but it largely got ignored. Of course it's not a major issue right now but neither is anything regarding crafting right now if you want to see things that way. My idea is basically about making HQ jewellery and DoH/L gear useful. I couldn't find a dev tag that it could go under.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ove-HQ-Results

i'll put this in OP as creating proper incentives by improving overall stats on HQ synths. let me know if you'd like a different description.