Japan hit by powerful earthquake

[Max™]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_equivalent_dose

How many banana doses is the radioactivity around the plants at, anyone know?

[brisk]

Back to 'Racists gonna race" I don't think I ever left this hard in months on sheer stupidity.

[plue]

I'd say, Nature just got it's copy FFXIV...

[Trigun]

I went back a couple of pages wasn't gonna go through entire thread mostly people crackin' yokes...some pics...

Some kinda huge not gonna spoiler either.

http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2...-japan/100022/

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/in...1_RTR2JQYE.jpg

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/in...4_09949623.jpg

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/in...4_RTR2JS1O.jpg

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/in...4_RTR2JQRS.jpg

[Maaglin]

Great, even more media fodder to try to prevent any US reactors being built to help us with energy efficiency.

Also lol @ comparing any reactor with even some semblance of protection to Chernobyl

You don't make any sense. If anything, the fact that this 40 year old reactor has held up so well considering all the damage and loss of power is nothing less than amazing.

[Kryssan]

Alright, we now have confirmation that the explosion was due to hydrogen, unfortunately status of Daiichi Unit 1 remains unknown. Depending on how bad it got they could have partial meltdown of Unit 1 (pretty much a repeat of the damage seen at TMI-3). It'll be interesting to see the failure report for the hydrogen, what system it was in particular that caused it to occur. If you go back to that original link I posted *relinked just now* you can see a picture of a reactor typical to the one's at Daiichi. You can see how the building serves as one boundary but inside the building there is another boundary - that one has not been compromised.


Daiichi Unit 3's fill system stopped earlier - that's what fill systems do. After a certain amount of time/water injected the system will automatically stop in order to prevent damage to the building assuming a coolant loop failure (adding a whole bunch of water might seem like a good idea initially but eventually the water weight on the walls will just cause a pressure rise that you can't stop by venting) or in the event that it was just an FEF and no actual rupture in the coolant/reactor metal exists you wouldn't want to cause one yourself by shoving in a whole lot of water and raising pressure.

Generally fill systems are two stage, the initial Noah's Arc deluge to ensure the core is never uncovered and then a recirculation system to help remove decay heat. Just filling it with water won't work obviously because decay heat will keep producing significant quantities of heat for several days. The system at Unit 3 engaged in an automatic shutdown and they weren't able to turn it back on. No idea yet on what system failed to cause the inability to restore. Here's a link to WNN's story on Unit 3, right now information is still slim.


By the way, for those wondering where they finally got power from the moved in mobile power supply units. Nine hours after the casualty initially occurred they had 3 of the 4 mobile units operating - that's where they got reliable power from finally to commence ESF operations. However, in the time they had no power they only had losses to ambient, and that's not the DHR method you want on a reactor that just shut down - too much heat energy to lose, Gen I and Gen II reactors need active cooling systems initially to deal with it. Gen III+ reactors are the only ones that can suffice on passive cooling and they just started building those. Gen IV reactors have to be sustainable on passive cooling.


As for radioactive release, here is what we have confirmed. Isotopes of cesium-137 and iodine-131 were noted at having rising levels at the cooling tower and discharge channels initially, but those levels have since lowered. Radiation levels at the site reached 500 uSv/hr (that's micro) which prompted them to make this a level 4 incident. 500 microSieverts per hour is 50 mrem/hr. Generally speaking every human being that walks the earth and breathes natural air receives 300~500 mrem a year, so perhaps this is where those radiation levels other people were talking about came from?

Certainly not the crazy numbers I heard though. A radiation worker would have to stand unshielded in that radiation field for 100 hours to exceed their per calendar dose. Now, I'm not saying you would want to be standing there (radiation is stochastic for cancer so the more you get the better your chance of contracting), but 50 mrem/hr is definitely not Chernobyl-4. 106 mSv is still the highest confirmed dose to any person.

I have no idea where that picture of fallout came from, but why the hell would they be measuring it in RADs? RAD is an outdated measurement comparing energy absorbed from one type of radiation into the skin and is strongly discouraged in use by NIST. Sievert and REM (Roentgen Equivalent in Man) are much more useful. RAD has to be converted based on the type of radiation to figure out damage.

[The Blackrose]

You don't make any sense. If anything, the fact that this 40 year old reactor has held up so well considering all the damage and loss of power is nothing less than amazing.

You underestimate the twisting power of NIMBYs.

[Corrderio]

I have no idea where that picture of fallout came from, but why the hell would they be measuring it in RADs? RAD is an outdated measurement comparing energy absorbed from one type of radiation into the skin and is strongly discouraged in use by NIST. Sievert and REM (Roentgen Equivalent in Man) are much more useful. RAD has to be converted based on the type of radiation to figure out damage.

I was hoping you'd comment on that pic, now for another question: What would you assume the odds are of contamination happening outside of Japan?

[TheTaru]

Back to 'Racists gonna race" I don't think I ever left this hard in months on sheer stupidity.

left this hard.

Does racism really arouse you that much after leaving?

[Kryssan]

Depends. A lot of variables to consider here.

The now-confirmed hydrogen explosion makes things iffy. Personally, I feel that a hydride reaction in the core is extremely unlikely even in the event of a meltdown. The core shutdown safely, it was shutdown for over an hour without issue and all cooling systems operable. Granted, 9 hours with LtA as your DHR method could definitely wind up causing FEFs or partial meltdowns, depends on power history of the core and how hot it was and flow ratios and et cetera. Still, even if you just let the reactor melt with no operator action it was already shutdown - no power excursion could have occurred.

We use hydrogen for other things in power plants, and if it was stored hydrogen bottles that caused the explosion then this is all a moot point and personally that's where my money is right now. If the primary containment held, then that means the explosion was not directly related to the reactor core (where the hydride reaction would occur) and no uncontrolled release from the primary containment has occurred.

So, given that Daiishi's containments are said to be holding by IAEA, TEPCO, and others, the only release has been buildup of products in the steam system, venting of the pressure housings, and some other potential stored sources caused by damage. Yet, we do have confirmed radionuclide buildup at the plant. Conversely, that buildup has gone down now and no reports on the concentrations of the particulate have been released so I can't tell you the percentage likely to wind up airborne. In short, need more information than what is presented now to hazard a good guess at spreads.

[brisk]

Does racism really arouse you that much after leaving?

Haha fuck I should stop posting while my mind is getting blown up before finals.

[Not not Mattaru]

From Japan:

Most of the US reporting is really bad. I take that back, NY Times is basically translating stuff from Japanese sources.

From the news that is on now microsievert levels at reactor 3, Fukushima Daiichi have gone down (1000+ to low 100s). At another plant in Onnagawa has registered above average microsievert levels, but not dangerous to humans and possibly related to the Fukushima plants. That plant is 100km away.

I live on the other side of Japan from where all this is happening. Basically business as usual here sans calls for donations and recently calls for volunteers.

NOTE: Whenever there is a risk or possibility of anything happening, it is usually in the news as 可能性 which literally means possible, probability etc. - most news sources in the US see that and automatically think "omg its gonna blow".

[Kryssan]

From Japan:

Most of the US reporting is really bad. I take that back, NY Times is basically translating stuff from Japanese sources.

From the news that is on now microsievert levels at reactor 3, Fukushima Daiichi have gone down (1000+ to low 100s). At another plant in Onnagawa has registered above average microsievert levels, but not dangerous to humans and possibly related to the Fukushima plants. That plant is 100km away.

Not unexpected, given American media sensationalism.

Question for you though, what are JP AP sources putting out for levels? Have they always been using microsieverts or were they using millisieverts at some point? So far the only number I've seen with millisieverts was the one guy's confirmed exposure at Daiishi Unit 3, yet a lot of people have been tossing around big numbers... If they were microsieverts the entire time that makes a big difference, and I could see numbers in the thousands of microsieverts for initial levels prior to ESF operation.

[Yugl]

In order to conserve electricity, the people of Japan have turned to the social networking site Twitter to both save energy and contact loved ones in this time of crisis.

Because the earthquake has caused power outages, the Tokyo Electric Power Company has called on citizens to help conserve electricity, leading celebrities and average citizens alike to utilize Twitter instead. The collective effort has been nicknamed “Operation Yashima” in reference to the classic anime, “Neon Genesis Evangelion”, in which the Evangelion units defeat their enemy with the use of a rifle that drains power grids across Japan.

TEPCO is currently unable to produce enough electricity during peak hours, predicting a shortfall of approximately one million watts – or 300,000 households.

Please continue praying for the country of Japan as they recover from this disaster.

Source: IT Media

http://www.tokyohive.com/2011/03/cit...ation-yashima/

Does that mean they're emo?

[Not not Mattaru]

Not unexpected, given American media sensationalism.

Question for you though, what are JP AP sources putting out for levels? Have they always been using microsieverts or were they using millisieverts at some point? So far the only number I've seen with millisieverts was the one guy's confirmed exposure at Daiishi Unit 3, yet a lot of people have been tossing around big numbers... If they were microsieverts the entire time that makes a big difference, and I could see numbers in the thousands of microsieverts for initial levels prior to ESF operation.

Sorry I can not give you a good idea of the consistency. I have no experience in anything nuclear related so I didn't pay much attention to it. The AP equivalent in Japan is Kyodo news if you want to check their site. I've mainly been getting information from NHK, press conferences, a japan hand twitter feed/thread, and Asahi. The measurements at Onnagawa reactor is ... I have seen 5.7 micro or 20 micro - so I am unsure of a confirmed number. Most news coverage recently has focused on reduction of tsunami warnings and a change of the magnitude of the earthquake, which has been changed to 9.0.

Also, as far as radiation exposure. Something like 9-17 people have been admitted to hospitals with some traces of radiation. A few plant workers were reported to have radiation sickness, but all of the people involved seemed to only have external radiation exposure - which requires a "wash" or something and not serious. People who live in the 20km evacuation zone number in the tens of thousands and people are being screened as they leave.

[Kryssan]

Hah, they've always been microsieverts according to Kyodo. Makes a helluva lot more sense. According to Kyodo the numbers were down to 70 uSv/hr one hour after the 1015 uSv/hr level was noted. Short lived particulate activity... interesting. Very interesting. Still need more data but a clearer picture I do see. Need to go to work, look over updates when I get back.

#Edit#

Real quick like, the Kyodo report states that the Boron was used to prevent recriticality concerns. Expected. Explosion due to fuel air mixture from hydrogen release - not proof positive, but very indicative containment held and this was not a hydride reaction. Hydrogen and Oxygen gasses are byproducts of the nuclear reaction - water is almost always used for coolant, and neutrons cause water molecules to blow apart while gammas put them back together again. Any water near the reactor would do, including water used in shielding material or secondary cooling systems. Usually they vent those to prevent hydrogen concentrations from hitting combustible/explosive levels but we have no idea what sort of system damage/malfunction were occurring in the plant at the time. We know the internal containment pressure reliefs were blowing steam to prevent pressure from getting too high in the vessel itself but that caused pressure in the building to rise. Would explain the explosion and the pressure release noted in other reports. Some reports of people in hospital with radiation exposure, but they won't have monitoring so we'll be waiting for dose investigations (those take time) to know what they got.

[Corrderio]

Since I know jack crap about these numbers the reactors are starting to stabilize due to dropping numbers right?

[Not not Mattaru]

Since I know jack crap about these numbers the reactors are starting to stabilize due to dropping numbers right?

I can't say anything for sure about this, but I can say - unless you live in Fukushima prefecture most people are not worried in Japan unless they are anti-nuke activists.

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/geiger..._medium=social

Live stream geiger counter from Koto-ku, Tokyo. Ha.

[Dylon]

how's this for my first meme :D

http://images1.memegenerator.net/Ima...ame=Troll-Face

[MaachaQ]

Just got a new update on my phone that says Mt. Kyushu is erupting, 4,000 meter high gas plume? Quick translation from YTN Korean site.