Japan hit by powerful earthquake

[Kuya]

Rachel Maddow truly is one of the better ones in the media.

[Kurokikaze]

Yeah for real. I mean she has her own bias obviously, but for the most part, she doesn't let that spill into her newscasting. Always facts first.

[Eleven19]

Times like this make me really wish Japan had

Spoiler: show

Gundam technology.

Yup, I'd offer mine up but I need to get to a job interview tomorrow.

Spoiler: show

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b6...a/GunSmall.jpg

[Salodin]

o_O How did that end up in a neighborhood?

[Insanecyclone]

Please tell me you're joking.

Spoiler: show

[Kurokikaze]

Shopped probably. But if it is true... probably some rich dude bought it. I know I would. Thats a fucking badass lawn-gnome.

[Lordender]

Thats why i'm not even following the story anymore. Hope everyone going through this horrible mess gets back on their feet soon and japan comes back better than ever. All the media is doing is trolling by blowing things way out of context trying to get ratings, it makes me sick, just report the god damn news and stop all the doomsday speculating and bringing on these fake idiot "Experts" who do nothing but further speculate and scare the shit out of people.

Friend living in osaka has family all over japan and the media has people scared shitless and its a fucking shame because its all over ratings instead of just reporting the news. I know this is what the media does but its fucking ridiculous this time being the scale of this disaster.

[Sephiroth]

It's Japan, so a life sized replica of something like that wouldn't surprise me.

On more serious matters, I think the media really do make matters worse whenever there's a major disaster. Yet on the other hand they do their bit to help too. It's about time the higher ups looked at the way shit like this is reported but it seems to be a problem industry wide in many countries so I can't see that happening. I just pulled this off the BBC's live feed, which sums it up nicely.

0339: Charles, from Shibuya-ku, Tokyo, writes: "This has all been greatly over-hyped by foreign media. The radiation rates in Tokyo are same as they were back in December. All the protections around the reactors are doing exactly what they have been designed to do. The health risks are low near the edge of the evacuation zone, and almost non-existent in Tokyo even considering the worst case scenarios. What people need to be concerned about are the 100,000s of Japanese without shelter, warm clothes, blankets with little water and food in the north part of Japan. There are still thousands waiting to be rescued. People are dying and suffering in those devastated areas, while the media continues to create panic around these reactors. This is a small problem, even in the worse case compared to the damage the tsunamis have caused."

I don't get all the panic evacuations of foreign nationals either. Seems the USA are starting it now too. It looks bad on the people fleeing when they live and work there during the good times but flee as soon as something bad happens. Here's another BBC comment which I agree with.

0054: Toby Memmott, from Tokyo, writes: "A lot of people are leaving Tokyo and even Japan because they are worried about radiation exposure. The truth is there is widespread panic among the foreigners here that is fuelling a media frenzy that in itself is fuelling fear and unrest with the foreigners: a Catch 22 situation. The worst thing we can do right now is abandon the Japanese people and their economy. The ones who decide to stay are having to deal with an almost doubled workload because so many have left or are leaving. Those who leave will be able to come back in two to three weeks to their job like nothing ever happened. There are so many people in the north who lost everything but given a choice to leave Japan I don't think they would. Be smart and support Japan, don't just run away."

Again, it seems to be the media at fault.

[Eleven19]

Shopped probably. But if it is true... probably some rich dude bought it. I know I would. Thats a fucking badass lawn-gnome.

lol That's down my block, was one of my projects for a digital photography class a few years ago.

That fucker is a 1/60 Perfect grade tho, took me a week and 500 parts.

[Salodin]

I'm not gonna lie, that's a damn good shop imo...

[*Shinzon*]

So after watching some of the clips on Rachel Maddow's program about the basics of what compromises a nuclear reactor and trying to wrap my non-scientific brain around it, why are we excited about nuclear energy really? I know we have a few people well informed who have been posting in this thread and maybe you can shed some light. Some people seem convinced that this energy is efficient and safe for our use and I see it as a double edged sword really. I mean we get 6 years, about, out of the fuel rods used in these reactors and they need 5-10 years to fully cool, before they can be stored some place else for another 100 years before they become 'safe' in terms of radiation levels. I mean these things basically require constant attention and once used up they serve no other purpose but to greatly pollute the environment if mishandled. So basically are newer reactors going to get more use out of these fuel rods or have we found better ways of cooling and or neutralizing their radioactive properties? Hoping to learn a bit more on the subject.

[Eaglestrike]

So after watching some of the clips on Rachel Maddow's program about the basics of what compromises a nuclear reactor and trying to wrap my non-scientific brain around it, why are we excited about nuclear energy really? I know we have a few people well informed who have been posting in this thread and maybe you can shed some light. Some people seem convinced that this energy is efficient and safe for our use and I see it as a double edged sword really. I mean we get 6 years, about, out of the fuel rods used in these reactors and they need 5-10 years to fully cool, before they can be stored some place else for another 100 years before they become 'safe' in terms of radiation levels. I mean these things basically require constant attention and once used up they serve no other purpose but to greatly pollute the environment if mishandled. So basically are newer reactors going to get more use out of these fuel rods or have we found better ways of cooling and or neutralizing their radioactive properties? Hoping to learn a bit more on the subject.

Currently something like 85% of our energy comes from oil or coal. Coal mining is a crazy unhealthy profession, not even counting the chance for mines to collapse and trap/kill miners (which seems to happen every few years at the least). And BP oil spill in the Gulf for the issue with oil. Nuclear is a way to get rid of our dependence on these other dangerous energy sources. And for the most part, nuclear power is a lot safer and healthier because we can always choose WHERE to put a reactor, whereas you need to mine/drill wherever the fossil fuels are. And I'm pretty sure these days you can make nuclear power with very little waste as you can re-use shit and all sorts of stuff. It also is more efficient on a time/energy use basis compared with oil/coal afaik.

[Salodin]

I think it's more of a lesser evil then something that is actually the be all end all of energy options. We don't carve out large mountains like we do coal, or risk polluting land/ocean with globs of oil. It's more efficient then things like solar/wind/wave energy, and as long as everything is running smooth, it's a pretty darn good and reliable source of energy.

Even when things go bad like they are now, it's not nearly as bad as say the oil fiasco of last year, since we have the know how and tools to deal with it.

[Olo401]

sup

Edit: Might as well contribute. We are far enough away to avoid damage here, but still felt all the shocks/aftershocks. People are pretty nervous, and there are big gaps on the shelves at the supermarket and convenience stores as people buy up water and toilet paper. Donation boxes are also overflowing with 1000 yen bills.

The latest live info I've seen says they dumped water four times from helicopters and are now preparing squads to start spraying in water. Power may also be restored to the plant this afternoon (11:41 am now).

Despite the sense of anxiety around here and being unable to concentrate much as these event play out, I still got a laugh from that Homer pic Let's hope they get this thing under control soon.

Good to hear from you man.. and VERY good to hear that they're close to getting grid power back on at the plant. Power means the water pumps start running again, which makes almost everything nice & cool again.

[Alarial]

So after watching some of the clips on Rachel Maddow's program about the basics of what compromises a nuclear reactor and trying to wrap my non-scientific brain around it, why are we excited about nuclear energy really? I know we have a few people well informed who have been posting in this thread and maybe you can shed some light. Some people seem convinced that this energy is efficient and safe for our use and I see it as a double edged sword really. I mean we get 6 years, about, out of the fuel rods used in these reactors and they need 5-10 years to fully cool, before they can be stored some place else for another 100 years before they become 'safe' in terms of radiation levels. I mean these things basically require constant attention and once used up they serve no other purpose but to greatly pollute the environment if mishandled. So basically are newer reactors going to get more use out of these fuel rods or have we found better ways of cooling and or neutralizing their radioactive properties? Hoping to learn a bit more on the subject.

Nuclear energy is by far one of our cleanest, safest, and most efficient forms of energy. Much of the problems in Japan at the moment are deriving from poor regulation at their sites.

[Olo401]

Nuclear energy is by far one of our cleanest, safest, and most efficient forms of energy. Much of the problems in Japan at the moment are deriving from poor regulation at their sites.

Uhh no, it has very little to do with poor regulation. The problems right now are a result of the conditions caused by the earthquake and subsequent tsunami and loss of primary and secondary power to the cooling pump system. Old design plays a part in this failure, especially in regard to the fuel pools and having only 2-3 fail-safes on the power to the pumps, but despite all the crap these reactors have been through in the past week that old design is still holding primary containment.

[Caiyuo]

Just flipped on CNN and heard some guy say "I think this is at Chernobyl level".

Fuck the media.

Definitely a mixed bag of information now, ABC had Michio Kaku, who I was under the impression was legit, on this evening talking about the nuclear reactors and he was like "oh this could be many times worse than Chernobyl, if I could speak to the Japanese PM I'd tell him to bury it in a sarcophagus as well." I mean they seemed to be focusing on "what's the worst of the worst of the very, very worst that could happen, we're just curious" like a laser beam but that still seamed a little overblown from the detailed information being posted.

[aduidarnenye]

Rachel Maddow's clips were refreshing after four days of nothing but CNN trying to incite a panic. I realy liked the one where she yells at the newspaper for their headline.

[Maaglin]

My command has now authorized voluntary military assisted evacuation to safe haven locations in other parts of Asia for all non-essential personnel and is considering implementing a total evacuation plan to have everyone out of the area by Tuesday (due to the large number of USCS personnel).

Not sure what to make of it. I'm classified as essential personnel, so I would be one of the last to leave.

[Kryssan]

Not really any different, but:

JAIF Update on plant status 0900 March 17th

Getting reliable offsite power back will be a major step in combating these problems. Cooling a reactor requires a lot of power, and those mobile generators - while helpful - just aren't enough for all the problems they've had.

IAEA released some information about the numbers of people confirmed to be contaminated or exposed to radiation in the public. Nothing major confirmed yet.

The reason for the necessity of chopper to dump water on Unit 4's spent fuel pool is that if those rods become damaged due to the heat they're now generating they will release contamination and spent fuel pools do not have the same safety features.

With the massively high radiation at ground level between Units 3 and 4 and the damage incurred to the systems, not to mention the low power situation, they're having to make do with other efforts to get water and boron onto those spent fuel rods.


As for why we use nuclear power, as others have stated it is one of the cleanest forms of energy production we have. Other than the fuel itself, there are no exhaust byproducts from the plant (the smoke stacks at a nuclear power plant are actually cooling towers and the 'white smoke' you see coming from them is steam from condensing water). Industrial waste in the form of chemicals used to maintain chemistry at the plant are by far much lower than other facilities (with exception to like solar and wind power).

Additionally, it's really really cheap. Nuclear power plants have a high capital cost due to the safety regulations and disposal concerns combined with regulatory fees, but once they're operating you save oodles compared to other forms of energy production. They'll maintain that until shutdown when you get another high capital cost for decomming it.

A lot of the figures you see for energy by nuclear power with other types of energy include these capital costs into the figure, which makes nuclear power seem disproportionate in terms of cost. One of the other features to this is that a single nuclear plant can produce a lot more MWe than most other plants in the same footprint - especially when you start talking about smaller modular reactor designs (Gen III+ and Gen IV).

Disposal of nuclear fuel and decontamination of water used by plants remains the largest longterm fees for a power plant. We still don't know why the Oklo reactors can behave the way they did/do, but should we manage to figure it out it'll be a major burden off the nuclear fuel disposal bit.

(The Oklo reactors are the natural sites where uranium deposits and water caused nuclear chain reactions to occur for thousands of years yet none of the radioactive contamination 'leaked' away from the 'reactor' even though it all occurred in the ground - mother nature always does it first and most of the time does it better. The Oklo site is a major study location for nuclear physicists attempting to understand what sort of ground material/layout you need for this safety blanket).

#Edit#

Also, the US military is now setting up for high-altitude unmanned reconnoiter flights over the plants to determine the situation in the Units that they cannot access due to radiation levels. Choppers doing the flyovers to dump water noted that their still appeared to be water at Unit 4's pool. TEPCO chose to dump the heli supplied water on Unit 3 first since they believe the steam plume from it is coming from boiling occurring in the spent fuel storage pool.