Japan hit by powerful earthquake

[Dylon]

so even though this isn't an earthquake, its still really fuckin weird. whats making this happen? is the tectonic plate japan is sitting on separating itself from what ever it was attached to before the earthquake and is now free to do what ever the fuck it wants? shit is crazy

[Shenrien]

That's so surreal, I probably wouldn't have believed it if someone would have told me such a thing could happen without showing me some evidence.

[Yeyoking]

so even though this isn't an earthquake, its still really fuckin weird. whats making this happen? is the tectonic plate japan is sitting on separating itself from what ever it was attached to before the earthquake and is now free to do what ever the fuck it wants? shit is crazy

I remember watching one of the first videos showing the ground moving and the guy that was recording it said the land is reclaimed so the soil is not solid rock like you would expect. When water gets into the loose soil, it creates a liquification effect to the ground.

[Kryssan]

P.s.- how do you not know what a meter is? Google "radioactivity meters" for more info.

This is a meter:
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...6T9rrCVs6Xcz5g

ie: something that takes an electrical signal and displays it on an analog or digital format

This is a gage:
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...0MLBgeIiT4xxzK

ie: something that takes a mechanical signal and displays it on an analog or digital format

This is a radiac:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Lfc724xb8meO0p

ie: something that measures radiation and/or contamination (for MFR devices with switching/switchout probes)

Terminology is important. People screwing up terminology is why radiation, radioactive, contamination, et cetera continue to get crossreferenced and significantly bastardized. Perhaps you actually just call them 'meters', but if I were to do so in any of the plants I've worked at I would undoubtedly get confused looks. When you say meter, I had to assume you meant remote meter readout from something like a permanently installed IM-### or PDR-56/70.

We use several of the ludlums you'll find here:

http://www.ludlums.com/index.php?opt...Aads&Itemid=80

...among others, if it matters to your argument, although it probably wouldn't help you much because ludlum has been providing japan's first responders with instuments, so I am actually quite familiar with the exact instruments they are using, as it is my job to calibrate them daily. Funny enough that i wouldn't have even known that Ludlum meters are the EXACT meters being used in Japan had you not called my equipment experience limited and asked what we use. I think the differences among our experiences, opinions, and termonology may make this conversation entirely pointless. Not to mention that as a nuclear operator by profession, your entire livelihood is dependant on the continued use of nuclear power... the biggest fear of which involves safety and the fear of the unknown. You have a vested interest in the stance you're taking, which implies bias.

*Sorry for the multiple edits but it's tough to work and post at the same time.

And you don't have a vested interest? At any rate, looking at that Ludlam page actually makes me think 'bullshit' because of how they phrase things. Maybe I'm just reading too much into it, but:

Over the next month it is expected Ludlum will ship up to 5 times that many instruments around the world as the efforts intensify and the true magnitude of the incident is clarified. Ludlum pledges to do all it can to support ongoing containment and clean up efforts and to help make the world safer.

Selling much? Granted, it's not that I take offense to them trying to sell their product, but using the Japanese disaster in such a way really rubs me wrong.


Also, I'm rather curious about their claim. I know the US Gov't officials currently assisting in Japan are not using those radiacs... never even heard of the company till you posted it.

TBH, their product line looks like it's straight out of the late 70s to early 90s. Didn't see any sort of APD listed either. Maybe they are/have supplied some items to TEPCO, can't say one way or another. Not there to confirm/deny it.

However, on point, IAEA/MEXT/TEPCO/NISA are releasing airborne/surface/water contamination and radionuclide analysis so once again, they are doing exactly what you implied they were not. With Fukushima Daini down for the time being, they're able to utilize all of it's detection and analysis equipment to assist with Dai-ichi in addition to the outside equipment being provided.

And while yes, I do have bias, I wouldn't say that I have a vested interest - it's not like this is going to affect my current job.

What I do have is an intense desire to stop hearing blatant speculation and retarded conclusions from observations that people do not understand, and an unwillingness to even sit down and look at the provided data to realize just what they're doing over there and how efficiently they're moving to respond to each situation as it arises.

There will be consequences from this for the community, of that there is little doubt. Perhaps it will set back the nuclear community again just as it looked like it might be taking off, but that is neither here nor there for the present time. What is important now is analyzing the data and giving best and worst case estimates and moving to curtail and contain.

As I said before, as someone with a claim to this field, while you have a right and are in the right to specifically identify concerns with rising issues, you are also obligated to actually research the claims before posting blindly on them. You are acting in reaction, not analyzing and detailing - nothing you've posted makes me think that you're actually reading and analyzing their reports.

[Tagus]

You're right... I haven't analyzed the reports. I don't have fucking time in my life to analyze reports based on flawed data and info, info that you seem unwilling to admit a potential shortcoming with even though it doesn't even cover the beginning of the incident, just to remove a point of attack from some douchebag on the internet. I've told you what I think, and we disagree. My initial efforts to communicate with you were done with the intent to have a conversation and point out some things that I felt my experience with radioactive materials compelled me to say, not have some gay-ass debate about a fluid situation that you seem to think is already under control, where you're going to pick apart everything I say like your reputation depended on maintaining the closed-minded criticisms of people questioning the potential that you might be wrong. You should seriously be in PR.

Also... it's called a fucking meter. I did not make the word up. Check google, see what comes up. Google is never wrong, its a mindless search engine. There are pages of meters. As far as ludlum lying about contributing meters to japan..... do you really think that would be a good idea for them? To lie about helping out the biggest radiological disaster of this generation as a goddamn meter company? You're a fucking asshole.

[Salodin]

Can't wait for a month or two from now when we see just how bad everything really was (or will it still be "is"). Reading both of you going back and forth is actually pretty interesting.

[Cantih]

When water gets into the loose soil, it creates a liquification effect to the ground.

You don't even need water. If the density & make-up of the soil is just right, it will behave like watter.

[Salodin]

Can you even rebuild a city on top of stuff like that? It seems impossible or very time consuming and costly.

[Tagus]

Can't wait for a month or two from now when we see just how bad everything really was (or will it still be "is"). Reading both of you going back and forth is actually pretty interesting.

Yeah it's going to be interesting indeed. I feel a little bad for losing my shit, but the whole "never heard the word meter, you're dumb" and" never heard of ludlum, their shit looks old and they are probably liars" crap made me feel like I was arguing with a brick wall for a second there. Time will tell I guess.

[Osede]

I remember watching one of the first videos showing the ground moving and the guy that was recording it said the land is reclaimed so the soil is not solid rock like you would expect. When water gets into the loose soil, it creates a liquification effect to the ground.

From what I recall, the liquification only requires high compression on the soil. And basically this is also what had happened on the tokyo disney land during last quake.

[Thunder]

Yeah it's going to be interesting indeed. I feel a little bad for losing my shit, but the whole "never heard the word meter, you're dumb" and" never heard of ludlum, their shit looks old and they are probably liars" crap made me feel like I was arguing with a brick wall for a second there. Time will tell I guess.

I didn't see a single personal attack in his post. If anything, you were the one who implied he's stupid for not knowing what a meter is with "P.s.- how do you not know what a meter is? Google "radioactivity meters" for more info."

Either way, I hope you guys keep posting objectively instead of getting emotional. Thread's only interesting, imo, because of arguments like that, and not the ramblings of uninformed people.

[Chicomagiko]

Seriously Tagus, calm yo shit down.

[Kryssan]

You're right... I haven't analyzed the reports. I don't have fucking time in my life to analyze reports based on flawed data and info

If you don't have the time, then why are you bringing it up? If I don't have the time to post, I don't post, because it's worse to make a blind post just to say something than to wait a few days and post when data is available. Also, where are you getting the idea that it's flawed? If you honestly have some information that supports that, by all means relay it.

info that you seem unwilling to admit a potential shortcoming with even though it doesn't even cover the beginning of the incident, just to remove a point of attack from some douchebag on the internet. I've told you what I think, and we disagree.

You're right, we disagree. Again, if you have something showing the data they're releasing is wrong somehow, then provide it.

My initial efforts to communicate with you were done with the intent to have a conversation and point out some things that I felt my experience with radioactive materials compelled me to say, not have some gay-ass debate about a fluid situation that you seem to think is already under control, where you're going to pick apart everything I say like your reputation depended on maintaining the closed-minded criticisms of people questioning the potential that you might be wrong. You should seriously be in PR.

I'm attempting to curtail what I see to be mindless speculation, especially when I see it provided by someone who claims to have knowledge of the field. This shit isn't a rose garden by anyone's standards, but it isn't Armageddon either.

The situation currently is in a state of flux, IAEA still has their little tag saying 'situation remains extremely serious' and all, which is not inaccurate, however things are looking more and more stable. Show me something that indicates otherwise and I'll be more than willing to look into it.

My knowledge of radioactive release to the environment is primarily based on Cobalt-60, not Iodine and Cesium, so I've been having to learn and pick things up as the situation develops. That being said, it isn't so different that I cannot relate to the understanding of the damage incurred and the situation developed. I have to convert Bq to pCi to utilize most of the thumbrules I know even.

Also... it's called a fucking meter. I did not make the word up. Check google, see what comes up. Google is never wrong, its a mindless search engine. There are pages of meters.

Did you really just say that? That totally reads as 'the internet is never wrong', you know that right? I've been in this field for 10 years this summer, and I've been a senior operator on a few platforms for a cumulative 6 years-ish. I have never heard anyone refer to a radiac simply as 'meter'. If someone says meter, they're talking about equipment we're replacing, or pointing at the readout of a device - not naming the actual radiac that.

As far as ludlum lying about contributing meters to japan..... do you really think that would be a good idea for them? To lie about helping out the biggest radiological disaster of this generation as a goddamn meter company? You're a fucking asshole.

What did I say that made you think I was calling them liars? I specifically quoted the after section - not that they had sent equipment to Japan, but that they were 'ramping up production and distribution worldwide' to 'assist in determining the extent of the casualty'. That just reeks of promotion. As I said, I might be reading too much into that but that was what I saw when I read it.

And as I said before, I definitely know the people we sent over there are not using that equipment. Maybe people at the IAEA and TEPCO and MEXT and NISA are, but I sincerely doubt there is just one company involved here and as I stated before, the way I read their statement it seemed more to me like a promotional hooyah to people not directly involved in the incident desiring to buy radiacs.

Yeah it's going to be interesting indeed. I feel a little bad for losing my shit, but the whole "never heard the word meter, you're dumb" and" never heard of ludlum, their shit looks old and they are probably liars" crap made me feel like I was arguing with a brick wall for a second there. Time will tell I guess.

Sorry, but their equipment line definitely looks out-of-date compared to what we're using now, and we are not using bleeding-edge equipment at the sites I'm working at. Some of that equipment looks familiar actually, which is why I say it looks straight from the 70s~90s because that's the age our equipment was at, but we phased all of it out finally about 3 years ago.

Personally, I definitely say good riddance to having to carry around four or five different/separate radiacs and a portable air sampler just to figure out what's going on around you. Carrying one radiac and a case with three or four probes is much more convenient.

I agree, time will tell the extent of environmental and personal impact. That is why criterion 1 remains a ? and not a guesstimated number.

[Vajra]

I think we should just chill man...none of us want anything bad to happen in Japan. If it does then, that means it was just meant to be, but I would be very sad because of all the things Japan has contributed to the world. Lets hope for the best and live like we're dying:



Just watch it, it's good music, and makes me feel better...

[Uzor]

Why do the Japanese people always walk around with those masks? Whenever I see a Japanese tourist in Sweden, they always wear those masks and a camera. It's like those are the two things the people of Japan are born with.

[Correction]

Why do the Japanese people always walk around with those masks? Whenever I see a Japanese tourist in Sweden, they always wear those masks and a camera. It's like those are the two things the people of Japan are born with.

They also tend to carry around pocket packs of kleenex wherever they go. Tribal customs, etc. Folks get scared of an inhaled threat, even if it's not significant, they'll pull out the masks. They're common during cold/flu/allergy season, and sup start of spring.

Google is never wrong, its a mindless search engine.

Operator error makes calculators spew out nonsense, too.

[Tagus]

If you don't have the time, then why are you bringing it up?

Because you seem to criticize me in every post you make that I haven't analyzed the data, and I wanted you to know why this was the case. I am going to try to look at some of it. Any suggestions on where to start? I haven't followed the actual data much because honestly I felt like it was an unquantifiable situation and the numbers were inevitably going to be shit. You're probably aware that this was my thought by now, but it was more... it was a motivation to not bother looking at the numbers, because holy crap they can't possibly be right, as I've mentioned.

My knowledge of radioactive release to the environment is primarily based on Cobalt-60, not Iodine and Cesium.

Mine is based primarily on I-131 and smaller stuff like Tl-201, Tc-99m, Xe-133, and Sr-89 but I have little knowledge of the workings of a nuclear reactor's safety mechanisms because I work in a lab that uses depleted Uranium generators to make our own stuff, and all the rest we have sent to us in bulk vials. From a business standpoint I know we're the busiest lab in the country in compounding I-131, if that matters. I am also afraid of I-131, because it's a volatile (meaning it can pressurize itself just from sitting in a closed space), airborne, cancer-causing, plastic-melting, thyroid-obliterating inhalation danger and that just freaks me out. Thought I should throw that in there for full disclosure, it may show itself in some of my posts. Well... maybe not afraid. "Healthy respect with a strong desire to avoid difficult situations" is probably a better description. It makes me better at my job, tbh. Well... maybe afraid in a good way. I get the whole "heightened awareness" thing when there's an Iodine spill, but not so much of the "panic" thing. Nevermind, now I'm rambling.

I'm attempting to curtail what I see to be mindless speculation, especially when I see it provided by someone who claims to have knowledge of the field. This shit isn't a rose garden by anyone's standards, but it isn't Armageddon either.

If this is truly the case, I apologize. It seemed to me that what you were doing was trying to cut the nuts off realistic speculation, but maybe you're just used to other people being wrong and have developed an attitude towards things you disagree with. I know I have.

Did you really just say that? That totally reads as 'the internet is never wrong', you know that right? I've been in this field for 10 years this summer, and I've been a senior operator on a few platforms for a cumulative 6 years-ish. I have never heard anyone refer to a radiac simply as 'meter'.

Yep... said that. Sorry to burst your delusional bubble of omniscience, but just because you haven't heard of a word doesn't mean it's not a word. Maybe it's even, *gasp*, a word people use outside of your particular environment to describe things on a regular basis! You also realize that your "internet is never wrong" comment could be easily turned on any of the data you're assuming is so correct?


As far as the other stuff goes, running out of time again. I always promised myself that I'd never get into one of those types of conversations where people are quoting individual sentences and responding to them, but I guess I didn't keep that one. Time to cut this out and go get some stuff done. It makes me extremely glad to see you admit that the level of environmental and personal impact is not set in stone. I think in a lot of ways that was all I ever wanted to hear you say. Enjoy your weekend.

[Cletis]

we just had another aftershock i guess. and you 2 fighting. lol..

[Kuya]

that means it was just meant to be

Everything happens for a raison

[Vajra]

This song represents how we can inject positivity into any situation, and turn sorrows into joy, even just for a moment!