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  1. #1601
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    I think you guys are falling victim to bad press again, or at the least sensationalized reporting. The extent or naming of whatever has happened inside the cores will remain estimates until they can get in there to do primary analysis.

    TEPCO/NISA/MEXT released estimates of core damage in excess of 70% way back when for Unit 1. Yes, core damage; as in, fuel-element failure, partial/full meltdown, et cetera; and I know that I've mentioned it as well. After entering their more recent investigations of Unit 1, these numbers have dropped from 70% to 55%.

    Meaning it wasn't as bad as they were estimating it to be; not that it is getting worse or that they were hiding information. Perhaps one of the regulators finally came out and claimed something to the effect that these reports are claiming, I haven't been paying that much attention to anything besides regulatory reports lately. I was skimming over news reports more frequently in the past.

    Additionally, the robot they used to investigate Unit 1 concluded there was no significant leakage coming from Unit 1. There is further detailed information about the potential for leak development covered in the link below. Core damage estimates of Units 2 and 3 were raised by 5% to each unit. Not really surprised by that development. Damage remains less than 50% for every unit with the exception of 1 as noted previously.

    This May 5th news release from NISA details and provides explanation for future plans regarding Unit 1. Please read it if you have not. It also happens to have been released several days prior to your news information, and is in regards to things the media is still claiming as recent developments when they are clearly not.

    This May 6th report from NISA details implementation actions at all other Japanese nuclear power sites in order to implement stricter safety standards to prevent another Dai-ichi from occurring, as well as status of review and inspection. Remember when I said they would be using all this data to attack the future problem? Here it is.

    For those still curious, there was also this detailed report regarding estimates on discharges from the plants during the first few days and estimates on biological effects and dose rates as well.

    It should be noted (in case the red text isn't obvious enough) that they are estimates and should not be assumed to be actual numbers. As noted in the report, the power failure at the site prevented collection of data. Some of it is unfortunately in Japanese for those who only read English.



    I have pointed out my information sources several times in the past. TEPCO is but one of them, there are several independent sources from them that I use as a means of comparison. The USDoE and NISA have had differing opinions and viewpoints on several points, however I have yet to see anyone suggesting or even alluding to some of the developments that the media has seen fit to advertise.



    As for the temperature spikes... Unit 3 temperatures were at 202C @ Feedwater Nozzle Ring on May 8th. They were at 210C on May 9th. 197C on May 10th. 218C on May 11th. 189C on May 12th. 170C this morning. Temperatures at the bottom head trended with FNR temperatures. I went back and reviewed the charts just to be certain, but didn't see any datapoints regarding the reason being for the temperature changes. IAEA does note the change but also doesn't provide a reason; additionally, IAEA's latest reports are now two days old and only include the trend up to 11 May.



    For those noticing that the quotes in this post are all of NISA and not of other regulatory agencies, I point out that IAEA's website has a wealth of information on it, but most of it is 3rd party hosted on Slide Share. Honestly, I find their system annoying but I'm dealing with it. IAEA's latest slideshows have observation/synopsis of the leaks currently occurring at the units making it worthwhile to check out, despite the aggravation of using the system. Basically, they're attributing any coolant leaks not associated with known crevice K1c failures with pump-seal leaks, as the temporary systems used for cooling are not canned/sealed motors.



    This is not over, nor will it be over, for several months into the future. The media merely had their short-term focus derailed. They'll not be resisting the nuclear temptation for long though, even if their reports are a little late on the subject matter.

  2. #1602
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    What would cause the temperatures to spike up this long after the shutdown? I have only a small/basic understanding of the system but what would cause temperatures to rise at all? A slow in the rate of coolant being added? Surely the reactions should be over by now and no longer generating any heat, right?

  3. #1603
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    No. DHGR will continue for a significant amount of time. Given that commercial plants always operate at high powers and do not generally experience any sort of transient at all, they have long cooldown periods.

    Taking the reactor from operational temperatures to cold iron should only take around a week in a normal scenario (one notices that the Units at Daini have been in cold iron for a while now), but one must maintain cooling regardless as decay heat will continue to produce heat in the reactor. DHGR starts at 7% of power history and decays away over time.

    Getting to an infinite grace period (basically the point at which losses to ambient is an acceptable cooling method) would reasonably be expected to require no less than 100 days, and is more probable to be around half a year~year given the size of the reactors.



    As for what would cause the heat spike, there are a number of things. Like I said, their datacharts don't mention any particular reason right now. We do know that in the past they have temporarily secured cooling flow for periods in order to do system checks and test for leaks, as well as swap over power supplies. Altering the amount of water injected or cutting out/in more heat sinks would be other potential causes.

    Given that Unit 3 has a crack in the PCV that has been emitting steam for some time now, the possibility of a loss of primary containment integrity still exists. That said they have not discovered any high-level contamination/radiation sources in the Unit 3 building floor. Pressure has been trending downwards the entire time and remains near atmospheric, regardless of temperature change.

    With the possibility of the PCV integrity compromised one cannot use the general rules of void coefficient and solid plant to use pressure as a comparison with temperature to analyze what would have caused the change in temperature. We'll have to wait for a report on the matter, if one is even bothered to have been given.

  4. #1604
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    Just a quick little status update whilst I have time:

    After the May 5th release concerning the increase of injection rate and determination of filling Unit 1, TEPCO increased flowrate to Unit 1 from ~6 m^3/hr to ~8 m^3/hr on May 6th. Today/yesterday (depending on timezone, May 15th early afternoonish Japan time) the rate of water injection was again increased from ~8 m^3/hr to ~10 m^3/hr. Details for the reasons in injection flowrate increase are covered in my earlier link. They're currently biding time waiting for system and plant response again.

    As to the temperature rise in Unit 3, nothing official yet released. There are notes however that over the same timeframe as the temperature rise and subsequent drop that TEPCO was altering flowpaths to Unit 3. On May 12th they commenced injection from reactor feed (@~9 m^3/hr) as well as firefighting (the latter has been the predominant injection source @~6 m^3/hr, but isn't what one would consider to be a 'desirable' source of injection - the firemain system ranks typically above seawater injection and below all other freshwater injection sources). Not saying this is or isn't the cause for the temperature spike (still nothing released regarding it), but demonstrating that they were doing evolutions that could have significantly affected temperature.

    Today/yesterday they commenced injection of boric acid to Unit 3 again.

    A day or two ago they released new airborne contamination reports for volatile and particulate radioactive contaminants. All shown nuclides (principly Iodine and Cesium) are two to three decades below the accepted average density limits. Radioactive dust contamination has remained below alert levels since mid-April.

    There's been a whole slew of data released recently regarding water-table, water-drains, deep-well commons, and seawater contamination (around the plants, water contamination to Japan and drinking water contamination levels have been below minimum detectable since March for all but one province, where it is detectable but below the limits; not sure if that drinking restriction for infants is still in place there either all restrictions for water have been removed). I honestly haven't had the time to sit down and peruse it all either, so I'm just mentioning it in passing. From what I have read/glimpsed over water contamination remains one to three decades above regulatory limits for discharge, most particularly for seawater discharge (after getting to read more the data shows that contamination levels in the deep-well and water-table are below minimum detectable).


    Back to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryssan View Post
    I think you guys are falling victim to bad press again, or at the least sensationalized reporting. The extent or naming of whatever has happened inside the cores will remain estimates until they can get in there to do primary analysis.

    TEPCO/NISA/MEXT released estimates of core damage in excess of 70% way back when for Unit 1. Yes, core damage; as in, fuel-element failure, partial/full meltdown, et cetera; and I know that I've mentioned it as well. After entering their more recent investigations of Unit 1, these numbers have dropped from 70% to 55%.

    Meaning it wasn't as bad as they were estimating it to be; not that it is getting worse or that they were hiding information. Perhaps one of the regulators finally came out and claimed something to the effect that these reports are claiming, I haven't been paying that much attention to anything besides regulatory reports lately. I was skimming over news reports more frequently in the past.

    Additionally, the robot they used to investigate Unit 1 concluded there was no significant leakage coming from Unit 1. There is further detailed information about the potential for leak development covered in the link below. Core damage estimates of Units 2 and 3 were raised by 5% to each unit. Not really surprised by that development. Damage remains less than 50% for every unit with the exception of 1 as noted previously.

    After reading the press reports regarding the issues with Units 1 and 3, I think I can better see the lack of distinction that is being made. After investigating Unit 1, the estimated damage totals to Unit 1 were dropped; yet the investigation and the subsequent installation of new and calibrated level gages that water levels in the unit were lower than they should be and that the potential for greater damage could exist.

    The evaluation from the data of the investigation led to them changing tacts and proceeding with this new path of filling Unit 1 based on the new data they have available while still taking into consideration integrity concerns for the PCV and the building. They think there is a possibility of water leaking from the reactor vessel into the containment vessel and that is what caused the discrepancy in water level, but it is impossible to confirm that at this time.

    Unit 3 was discovered to have some water leakage path from a cable penetration/trench near the ocean used to supply power to various pump rooms. Given that temperatures in Unit 3 were slowly rising prior to the discovery of, then rose quickly during the process to changeover coolant delivery systems, and have subsequently dropped after the reactor feed system was integrated again, there has been some speculation with regards to the extent of damage to Unit 3. It is not known if the leak has anything to do with the rise in temperature though; merely speculation at this point.



    17 May:

    So, there's been another death. No actual cause of death has been stated to my knowledge, though they say it wasn't due to radiation or contamination. And ugh, I think I just struck WNN off my newslist. They concluded the article with 'the worker had not been contaminated with radiation'. I wanted to scream. No, I want to scream. AUUUGGGHH. Is it so hard to accurately describe the difference between the two, particularly for an organization that specializes in NUCLEAR news?! Just... argh.

    They have some new interesting theories regarding the damage to Unit 4. Right now they're really just ideas thrown on the table, but they think hydrogen gas produced during the venting of Unit 3 led to gas filtration to Unit 4 via common headers. It might also explain the fires they had at Unit 4 that 'self extinguished'. These coming on the hills of the reports for the lack of damage to Unit 4's suppression pool that should have been seen if it had been the source of hydrogen.

    Still just guesses at this point.

    TEPCO is actually ahead of their schedule now with setting up the heat exchangers for the closed circuit recirculation systems. Construction is beginning for the temporary reactor building covers for Units 1, 3, and 4. No cover will be built around Unit 2 since the building remains predominantly intact (as of the current planning, that might change). They're on track for completing the initial phase of setup for long term cleanup and containment in a year's time.

    Supposedly they were also able to send workers into Unit 1 to put hands and eyes on target instead of just the robot. Still nothing new from the IAEA though. Expect an update in a few days.

  5. #1605
    Bagel
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    Just thought I'd bump the topic.

    There have been some recent updates with regards to computer simulations. I can't find the actual source documentation, only news links at this point unfortunately. They're reporting that fuel temperatures at Dai-ichi could have reached levels of 2700C after the tsunami hit and removed the power for decay heat removal cooling systems. That sort of temperature would definitely have led to zirc-water hydride reactions, though the other conditions of the plant would have prevented any massive power changes/recriticality accidents regardless.

    The scenarios are all based on estimates as actual indications were not available during the time of the power loss (from when the batteries were exhausted up until restoration of power by temporary diesel generator units brought in by vehicle). They vary from showing core damage having occurred by March 15th to March 18th, with core damage estimates ranging from in the 40th percentile to the 80th-90th percentile for worst case/most conservative.

    Obviously, without actual data to go off of the simulations are open to interpretation, no matter the method you desire to look at it from. Still going to be a while before we have hard numbers or a better idea of what caused the events to unfold as they did (with regards to hydrogen explosions, particularly the damage between Units 3 and 4) and the actual physical core integrity/layout after the fact.



    There haven't been any major reports from any of the regulatory agencies for a while now, though Unit 3's temperatures continue to fall from when the increase in temperature had some concerned. Still haven't seen any statement/release from any regulatory agency regarding the issue, so it was most probably caused by operations at the plant prior to the reactivation of the reactor feed system. Temperatures for all PCV/Reactor wells in the various Units are less than 120C, with the highest reported at Unit 1 (115.0C) and the lowest reported at Unit 6 (27.2C).

    Operations continue to remove the water from spraying and leakage, as well as the rubble from the hydrogen explosions that damaged the outer containment structures. They brought in a large barge for storage of lower-level radioactive water while the plant retains the high-level waste water for processing in the control pured water systems. Agent continues to be applied to limit the spread of radioactive contamination. Temporary access has been allowed to some of the closer cities/towns that are within the restriction zone around the nuclear plant.

  6. #1606
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    Most of the stuff I've been reading has been mentioning that the working theories now is that all three reactors have melted down into their suppression pools and possibly further (through the concrete containment & into the bedrock and/or seabed) and they cite the severe spikes in mSv/hr in & around the plant and the extremely high radiation levels in the ocean as proof. However if that were the case wouldn't there be at least some non-official reports about larger amounts of neutron emissions?

  7. #1607
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olo401 View Post
    Most of the stuff I've been reading has been mentioning that the working theories now is that all three reactors have melted down into their suppression pools and possibly further (through the concrete containment & into the bedrock and/or seabed) and they cite the severe spikes in mSv/hr in & around the plant and the extremely high radiation levels in the ocean as proof. However if that were the case wouldn't there be at least some non-official reports about larger amounts of neutron emissions?

    Shouldn't be any viable neutron emissions regardless; between the Boron injection and the lack of geometry concerns the only thing you would see is shutdown source neutrons. While high in energy, they are few in number even when viewed from a reactor geometry standpoint. Seeing neutrons beyond source levels means the fuel is reacting.

    Also, from what I understand the fuel of these reactors was loaded in pellet form, not static fuel assemblies; so the general idea of meltdown isn't "the entire core became slag and fell to the bottom". Instead, most of the fuel when it reached the higher temperatures melted off of the assemblies and fell to the bottom of the PCV and collected at the bottom of the core as the water boiled off, creating a natural circulation flow path. The top assemblies would have been damaged/melted and fallen into the lower assemblies, but the likelihood of an entire failure is negligible considering current understood data with regards to temperature.

    It would be virtually impossible to even imagine the fuel melting into bedrock; even Chernobyl-4 didn't do that and it had the help of much more volatile explosions and a reactivity addition casualty that would make any nuclear physicist wet the bed. To my knowledge even the corium lava flows of Chernobyl didn't make it through the structure of the power plant (there is some speculation as to how far the Elephant's Foot melted into the cement, as well as some other areas) so given the method of the casualty at Dai-ichi... gonna go with a solid no.

  8. #1608
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13598607


    A group of more than 200 Japanese pensioners are volunteering to tackle the nuclear crisis at the Fukushima power station.

    The Skilled Veterans Corps, as they call themselves, is made up of retired engineers and other professionals, all over the age of 60.

    They say they should be facing the dangers of radiation, not the young.

    It was while watching the television news that Yasuteru Yamada decided it was time for his generation to stand up.

    No longer could he be just an observer of the struggle to stabilise the Fukushima nuclear plant.

    The retired engineer is reporting back for duty at the age of 72, and he is organising a team of pensioners to go with him.

    For weeks now Mr Yamada has been getting back in touch with old friends, sending out e-mails and even messages on Twitter.

    Volunteering to take the place of younger workers at the power station is not brave, Mr Yamada says, but logical.

    "I am 72 and on average I probably have 13 to 15 years left to live," he says.

    "Even if I were exposed to radiation, cancer could take 20 or 30 years or longer to develop. Therefore us older ones have less chance of getting cancer."

    Mr Yamada is lobbying the government hard for his volunteers to be allowed into the power station. The government has expressed gratitude for the offer but is cautious.

    Certainly a couple of MPs are supporting Mr Yamada.

    "At this moment I can say that I am talking with many key government and Tepco people. But I am sorry I can't say any more at this moment. It is on the way but it is a very, very sensitive issue politically," he said.

    Certainly it is likely more workers will be needed.

    The plant is still spewing radiation, nearly three months after an earthquake and tsunami knocked out its cooling systems, triggering explosions.

    Its operator, Tepco, has now confirmed three of the reactors probably suffered meltdowns.

    The plan is to bring the plant to a cold shutdown by January, although some experts believe that is over optimistic.

    To cope with the disaster Japan has raised the radiation exposure limit for emergency workers from 100 millisieverts to 250 millisieverts.

    But Tepco announced this week two workers at Fukushima might have already been exposed to more.

  9. #1609
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    Some more updates.

    A robot that entered Unit 1 found a steam leak in one of the still closed off areas of the plant, radiation levels were in the 3~4 Sv range. New equipment connected and calibrated is showing in combination with these robotic units is showing that there is damage to the PCV and containment vessel of Unit 1. No word on yet what system in particular the leak is from. Seems to be emitted from a piping penetration. TEPCO still believes that damage is 'limited' at this time.

    Two workers are now supposedly above the 250 mSv range; one will note that their dosages are given as a range themselves. That's because these are from a dose investigation, not a dosimetry reading. 218-580 mSv for one and 200-570 mSv for the other. It should be noted that these are cumulative dose rate measurements which include internal dose, and as such are calculated a bit differently than what dosimetry would.

    The original exposure listings for the two by dosimetry was below 100 mSv. They've been doing internal monitoring for a while now, and this came about as a result of said monitoring at the end of May. These particular two individuals were shown to have higher than normal readings and so were tested independently by NIRS and these updated ranges released. TEPCO plans to do several dozen more of these for verification and validity checks using other employees involved in cleanup efforts.

    For those unaware, internal doses are calculated by instantaneous metrics that involve a time period. In example, these doses are not what they have currently received, but a combination of what they have received as a result of their current working environment and the exposure up to the time the calculation/investigation is conducted and what they are expected to receive from the levels of internal contamination at that same time (stuff they have ingested, breathed in, or otherwise absorbed into the body) evaluated over the next 50 years (specific data regarding their particular dose rate calculation methods taken from the excerpts of the NIRS and TEPCO regulatory reports).

    Humidity and water and heat conditions at the plants are greatly complicating things and the summer months are only just beginning. Two cases of dehydration and nine of heat stroke. There have been additional injuries of minor-to-moderate qualities occurring throughout but most of them don't involve radioactive contamination.

    By the middle of the month the plant should have tested the systems and begin to filter the radioactive water that has collected up around the site for processing and reuse as cooling water in the rigs they've been building onto the units. There is some potential however that if heavy rains continue *cough*typhoons*cough* some contaminated water might spillover from the trenches before it can be processed.

  10. #1610
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    The world forgot about this tragedy... but in current affairs did you hear that congressman weiner showed his?

  11. #1611
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    Nuclear bunny? That's too big a leap

    This video shows an earless rabbit, purportedly living in an area near the stricken Fukushima nuclear site.
    By Alan Boyle

    A rabbit without long ears? Supposedly living just outside the 19-mile (30-kilometer) exclusion zone surrounding Japan's radiation-stricken Fukushima nuclear site? Now there's a video that's made to go viral!

    The YouTube clip has been viewed nearly 2 million times since it was uploaded two weeks ago, and it's sparking all sorts of speculation about the mutation risk to other living things due to the radiation leak. The problem is, you can't really tell anything about genetic risks from one mutant rabbit — particularly when the mutation has been seen lots of times before, without any connection to radiation exposure. There's this run-of-the-mill earless rabbit from Britain, for example. And this rabbit. And these rabbits. And ... well, we could pile on the cute bunny pictures all day. Rabbits have even been known to lose their ears due to overgrooming rather than genetic causes. So it's way too big a leap to blame this one on Fukushima's radiation leak, let alone suggest that humans might suffer a heightened incidence of birth defects.

    If you really want to find out what's going on in Japan, check out "After the Wave," msnbc.com's special report about the aftermath of the March earthquake, tsunami and nuclear accident. The concerns about Fukushima's long-term legacy are serious enough without playing the cute-animal card. Although I have to admit the video is pretty cute.

    Update for 3 p.m. ET: University of Miami biologist Dana Krempels, an expert on rabbits, provided this perspective in an email:

    "There are many different reasons a rabbit may be born this way or acquire this characteristic early on, not least of which is a stressed mother rabbit who overgrooms her babies to the point of mutilation. This is the most common reason we see baby bunnies with missing ears or limbs. So while it's possible that the earless condition of this baby is congenital (i.e., bun was born with it), it's also possible that it was acquired after birth.

    "I have to wonder whether there are any other bunnies in the group that have anomalies like that. I didn't see any. And that would make me very hesitant to cry 'Radiation!' just because one baby bunny is missing his external ear pinnae.

    "I can't tell from the video whether the bunny has ear canals covered by the fur. If not, that would tell us that this isn't a result of a mother's overgrooming, but rather some kind of birth defect. Whether it's due to radiation or some other factor is not possible to say, since these types of malformations do occasionally occur in the absence of known mutagens.

    "Sadly, only time will tell whether the radiation leaks are affecting the germline (i.e., the cells that will become eggs or sperm) or embryos of human and non-human animals in the irradiated regions of Japan. But a sample size of one bunny is far too small to make a positive conclusion."
    http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news...too-big-a-leap

    And so the mutation begins... or not >.>

  12. #1612
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    Even though we all know the radiation didn't cause it to happen, no one can deny how cute that fucking bunny looks...

  13. #1613
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    Update on exposures:

    The two workers have been exposed as follows: 88mSv external, 590mSv internal CED, total 678 mSv; 103mSv external, 540mSv internal CED, total 643 mSv. Limit is still 250 mSv total dose. CED = Committed Effective Dose; remember, internal exposure as defined here (and as I've honestly always seen it defined, the time ratio varies though depending on the reporting agency and therefore the dose respectively) is a reported instantaneous dose for an effective chronic dose.

    In other words, they calculate everything you've been exposed to and how much 'dose' that would give you over a given time ratio and say that you were instantly exposed to that 'total' dose. This is what is used in determining lifetime doses. External dose is what is measured by dosimetry, and is a measurement of the exposure they've received up to this point - the lack in explanation/taking things out of context by certain media outlets regarding 'TEPCO misreporting/misperforming' exposure control/reporting is bogus.

    Information confirmed from TEPCO and independently verified by NIRS. Medical examinations conducted by local hospitals and NIRS show no current (long term results of dose obviously not going to be known for a while; cue future television shows on the issue no doubt) health problems with the workers. A third worker is now being reported as exceeding total dose; numbers are not yet given.



    Outside of that realm, work continues to proceed at the plants. Workers were finally able to enter Unit 4's upper floors over the past couple days and damage to the fuel suppression pools is unfortunately more extensive than at first believed. This is not a containment concern - the fuel's not going anywhere - the problem is the plans they had in place to setup long term cooling systems relied on some piping/systems that have been severely damaged. Plans will need to be reevaluated.

    Unit 2's new circulation systems for the fuel storage pool and air filters have been brought online now. Temperatures continue to drop in the storage pools, and are nearing normal levels of 25C. Unfortunately, humidity remains an issue - they are reevaluating the cause. Some reports are saying it is possible it is from steam leaks in the torus. No data to support/renounce any claims at this time - just speculations. In a day or two the results of the air filtering process at Unit 2 should be forthcoming; if internal levels have dropped enough then workers will be entering that Unit as well for further investigation and work.

  14. #1614
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    Fucking computer crashed while I was writing the long version, so y'all only get the short version.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...top-leaks.html

  15. #1615
    aduidarnenye
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    Here's another interesting article on the earthquake cleanup:
    http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...ter_the_q.html

  16. #1616
    Tagus
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    Did you guys see that story on CNN about them giving thousands of personal radiation meters to local kids? I'm at work right now so can't find the link, but that's some fucked up shit.

  17. #1617
    aduidarnenye
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagus View Post
    Did you guys see that story on CNN about them giving thousands of personal radiation meters to local kids? I'm at work right now so can't find the link, but that's some fucked up shit.
    Why is it fucked up? Is it because you think that's scary for kids or because the kids are in a zone with radiation? I doubt that there's anyplace for those kids to go and they're probably outside of the exclusion zone. I think it's a good idea if you explain to the kids what they are, what they do, why they have them, and what to do if they get a reading. Kids would constantly be fiddling with them.

  18. #1618
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    Quote Originally Posted by aduidarnenye View Post
    Why is it fucked up? Is it because you think that's scary for kids or because the kids are in a zone with radiation? I doubt that there's anyplace for those kids to go and they're probably outside of the exclusion zone. I think it's a good idea if you explain to the kids what they are, what they do, why they have them, and what to do if they get a reading. Kids would constantly be fiddling with them.
    I was thinking that it was fucked up in a "post-apocalyptic image of the world where children are given radiation detectors instead of baseball gloves" sort of sense. Or, a "radiation detector training and equipment is necessary for children in today's world" sort of sense. I'd be interested in their readings... I'm sure the thought is that the contamination is going to be found in unexpected places, and the more detection equipment in use the better, which is also makes a fucked up sort of sense.




    Also, I'm home from work so here's the link: http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-14/w...ty?_s=PM:WORLD



    Japan to hand out radiation meters to kids near crippled plant


    IAEA officials tour the grounds of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant on Friday, May 27, 2011. Officials of Japan's hard-hit Fukushima city will begin handing out radiation measuring devices to 34,000 children in a plan to help calm fears about radiation. Fukushima city is located about 60 kilometers (37 miles) from the Fukushima Daiichi Plant, which experienced full meltdowns at three reactors in the wake of the earthquake and tsunami on March 11. The measuring devices, called dosimeters, will be given to the children for three months starting in September, officials said. "We received the voice from the parents and citizens concerned about radiation exposure of the children. We decided to distribute them for the safety and assurance," said Masazo Kikuchi, officer of the city's education board.

    The devices wil be given to nursery schools, kindergartens, elementary schools and middle schools in the city.

  19. #1619
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagus View Post
    Did you guys see that story on CNN about them giving thousands of personal radiation meters to local kids? I'm at work right now so can't find the link, but that's some fucked up shit.

    Actually, the Fukushima city officials are just trying to calm fears by supplicating people with trinkets (wasn't a regulatory agency), particularly given their closeness and the fact that they still have some limitations in place helping to fuel fear; and your post is the typical knee-jerk I'd expect from someone else. Read the article next time.

    Also, Olo, I couldn't read the entirety of that article because of 'radiation leak' smattered throughout the entire thing. Meh. At any rate, I find it bemusing and sad at the same time some of the things they mention. With the thousands (yes, read that, thousands) of samples they are taking throughout the area (they took nearly a thousand food samples alone over the second half of May) in both the sea and the land with the help of at least three different independent organizations they are finding less than 10% of those above the regulatory limits. Yes, it definitely sucks for the farmers who have crops that are soaking up Iodine/Cesium - but that isn't anything new. They've been talking about ditching the foodstuffs from several provinces around the area for a while just for safety's sake, regardless of actual disposition amounts.

    Could they have more? I guess, one can always have more.... and I do agree with the issues/concerns over the spread maps. They'll need those contamination maps for effective decontamination efforts. Unfortunately, the data just doesn't exist to allow them to extrapolate things - I've shown links previously for the estimates of disposition based on plant conditions and surveys taken; but the problem is that the critical data they need for better determinations doesn't exist. With no power at Dai-ichi for so long, they're having to guesstimate and fill in the blanks regarding what could/did get released where. The fallout/disposition is causing the investigators a ton of problems, but they've been sweeping the countryside for a while now to find whatever clues they can. You can only throw so much at a problem before it becomes ineffective - hell, the site I work at alone has over 300 people helping out in Japan currently with TEPCO/NISA.

    I would say that while land coverage is rather well taken care of they could do more for sea coverage. They currently have 38 continuous sampling stations at sea, most of which are centered around the discharge paths of the plants. A more wide-spread coverage arc would be nice, particularly along water current routes. I'm not sure if it is a cost issue or simply a dilution issue (perhaps they're not getting enough above minimum detectable activity that far from the site to warrant extra stations?).

    The use of covers for the plants isn't something new - though I suppose currently it probably seems like a cop out. After all, people tried similar things with the oil crisis in the Gulf and then you always have Chernobyl-4 to look back on. Not really sure how to comment on that one; for now they are saying the cover/buildings are for temporary control and reduction and that more appropriately shielded/hepa-ventilated/forced cooled buildings and DHR systems will be added once they're out of the 'crisis'.



    There is a nuclear safety conference occurring in Vienna next week, and a good deal of it will be focusing on Japan. For one thing, the IAEA's report regarding TEPCO's actions to the casualty are supposedly to be released as well as the preliminary 'official' assessment. I'm hoping the data we get from that is more extensive/inclusive and not just a rehash of what we already know.

  20. #1620
    Tagus
    Guest

    I'm not sure how you can honestly say that there is nothing disturbing about the idea of children being given radiation detectors. Their parents want them to have radiation detectors, for their safety. How the fuck is that not disturbing? Thanks for reminding me so quickly why I stopped conversing with you.

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