The Official Forums: BG Edition

[Gokulo]

Trying too hard son~

[Gun-it]

Well I got Kuishen at least.

[Kuishen]

If by "got" you mean I was so unimpressed with your attempt at trolling that it merited a reply then yes, you got me.

[Surealistic]

lol...
http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1981/cool.jpg

that was of course me, and i did bot, dont anymore, never got caught for it, difference between you and me? i admit to my misdoings, did what i had to in the wonderful world of hnm's, which is why im advocating no more world pop hnm's

if a gm, or a dev wants to check my account, so be it, they will find nothing on it unless they go back 2 years, since ive barely played over the past 2 years and have done no botting in that time

at least im not sitting here claiming that i can beat bots on my ps2 whenever i feel like it lol

[Eanae]

No one cares about your excuses, your post was stupid.

[Surealistic]

cause you were never in a ls that bots right?

[Eanae]

Never said I didn't. I just don't walk around with my cock swinging out where I'm liable to get fucked.

[Surealistic]

read the whole thread, and you will understand why i came out and said that, im not saying it because im proud of it, im not trying to say that at all, more of pointing out the flawed system of world pop hnm's that forces you to either bot yourself or align yourself with those who bot, im advocating getting rid of the entire system, make all hnm's force pop, i did not like having to put my account at risk just to get the gear i wanted, and like i said, gms would have to go back at least 2 years to see any shady activity on my account, plus ive barely played for the past 2 years, if my account does get banned, im not going to lose any sleep over it, i actually just reactivated my account after a 6 month break

Any new HNM coming

[Aksannyi]

You didn't have to. While most players did bot and it was often difficult to compete with botting linkshells, non-botting players/linkshells are capable of claiming.

You'll get no argument from me that the system was flawed from the beginning. But you're acting like the only option in order to fight these mobs and get gear was to bot. It wasn't. You still had the choice not to, you chose to do so. Yeah, I did it too, but you don't see me acting like I had no say in the matter. No one forced me to install the claimbot onto my computer and use it. I could have stayed in my linkshell and spam-claimed all I wanted and it wouldn't have affected how I accumulated dkp/gear at all. I chose to do it. No one twisted my arm.

Don't act like it wasn't a choice of your own free will. You weren't forced. Even if you say you were by your linkshell, you weren't, unless they were going to physically come to your house and check your PC to be sure the bot was installed. You chose to do something that made claiming mobs easier. That's it. And by doing so, you chose to put your account at risk. I did it, thousands of others did it, and we all chose that route. No one was forced. You can argue that after it became so prevalent that you really didn't have a choice, but you still did. And admitting to that much regardless of how flawed the system was for HNMs is still a damn good way to get your account banned. SE isn't going to care that you felt coerced into botting or that you considered it a necessity. SE is going to care that you broke the rules, you cheated, you gained an unfair advantage. That's the only part they're going to see. And admitting it to them on their forums is retarded. Plain and simple.

But I'll honestly be interested to see. Some have mentioned windower, spellcast, dat mods, and other things on the forums so we'll see what kind of line SE draws. I'd be interested to see if they take any action. If not, it may just be the "proof" people need that SE doesn't care and open the floodgates.

[Surealistic]

your right, no one forced me, i did it of my own free will, i get that, but on my server it kinda was necessary, ask anyone from bahamut, yes you can claim without it, but if your spending all your time camping, you were doing yourself a disservice by not botting

on bahamut after watching FI literally claim all three ground kings everyday for years, missing a claim here and there, you do what you have to, im not trying to convince anyone that they HAD to bot, all im saying is that the system is/was broken

meh it is what it is, i just dont want to see SE go down that road again, force pop hnm's is the way to go, end of story

[Aksannyi]

I agree if they do another set of HNMs that requires people to sit and camp and create the same problems as we've had since 2004 (before? hell if I know, I started in 2004) then they're idiots. I think (at least I hope) they've learned that it was a shitty system, that's why when SW and DI came out they used different methods of claim which made them a bit more difficult to bot claim. Granted, they were infinitely more annoying to camp, but they weren't as easily bottable.

[Eanae]

If anything, Ix and SW were easier to bot claim. I'm not sure if you were still playing after the merger, but we dominated Ixworm due to our software.

[Aksannyi]

No I'd quit several months before the merge, and when I heard about the merge, that lessened any interest I had in playing. Shortly thereafter was the announcement of the level cap increase, which completely killed it. Lol.

And really, I hated camping SW/Ix because we weren't an enormous linkshell. There were days when we'd have half a dozen people on. Not because we were dying, necessarily, but because we didn't keep two hundred people on our roster like some of the other shells on the server. We couldn't even cover all of the zones often when those camps were open, so it wasn't much of a shock that we were outclaimed a lot. At least when I was playing. I also hated SW/Ix because of the lack of actual proven intervals (at least while I played, this may have changed afterwards, while I played it was still debated either way) and the general need to stay in one zone doing basically fucksquat else for upwards of five hours. Even with/without bots, it was painful to camp. Which is beside the point, the point is SE tried to change it up to reduce the amount of botting, and up until I quit, they never added another static spawn where you'd sit for about 3 hours with your bot at the ready.

[Lyall]

I can get the "manning up" portion of your post of being like, the reformed guy talking about why drugs are bad, but SE is SE. Casually dropping "Well, I killed a guy once" in the middle of a police station lobby probably not going to help you in the end.

Probably nothing, but why take the risk?

[aduidarnenye]

It was kind of a stupid thing to post on an official forum with your account attached to your forum ID.

[Surealistic]

cause ive overcome my ffxi addiction, only wanting to play now to stop me from spending money on going to the bar and such, wont lose any sleep if i do get banned, and if i were STILL botting i of course wouldnt have said anything

and i wish i still had it, might at home, but i had a conversation with a gm one time when a known gilseller i was fucking with told me in say that he was indeed a gilseller, gm told me "just because he says he is, doesnt make it true" lol to which i responded, "well if i tell a cop that i just killed someone, doesnt mean its true, but the cop sure as hell will look into it"

[Yugl]

You didn't have to. While most players did bot and it was often difficult to compete with botting linkshells, non-botting players/linkshells are capable of claiming.

You'll get no argument from me that the system was flawed from the beginning. But you're acting like the only option in order to fight these mobs and get gear was to bot. It wasn't. You still had the choice not to, you chose to do so. Yeah, I did it too, but you don't see me acting like I had no say in the matter. No one forced me to install the claimbot onto my computer and use it. I could have stayed in my linkshell and spam-claimed all I wanted and it wouldn't have affected how I accumulated dkp/gear at all. I chose to do it. No one twisted my arm.

Don't act like it wasn't a choice of your own free will. You weren't forced. Even if you say you were by your linkshell, you weren't, unless they were going to physically come to your house and check your PC to be sure the bot was installed. You chose to do something that made claiming mobs easier. That's it. And by doing so, you chose to put your account at risk. I did it, thousands of others did it, and we all chose that route. No one was forced. You can argue that after it became so prevalent that you really didn't have a choice, but you still did. And admitting to that much regardless of how flawed the system was for HNMs is still a damn good way to get your account banned. SE isn't going to care that you felt coerced into botting or that you considered it a necessity. SE is going to care that you broke the rules, you cheated, you gained an unfair advantage. That's the only part they're going to see. And admitting it to them on their forums is retarded. Plain and simple.

But I'll honestly be interested to see. Some have mentioned windower, spellcast, dat mods, and other things on the forums so we'll see what kind of line SE draws. I'd be interested to see if they take any action. If not, it may just be the "proof" people need that SE doesn't care and open the floodgates.

If he's willing to risk his account for the sake of making his argument, who the fuck are you to criticize? The argument that you didn't have to bot is true, but so fucking obvious that it needs no mention. What most people mean when they say they need to bot is that in order to claim consistently and without having to focus for 0.25-3hrs (Some NMs in intervals), you need a bot. For some LSs, botting was required to joined (As a PS2 player, I understood this implication greatly). You might make a retarded comeback by saying "Well, you don't have to join those shells", but such an assertion fails to consider that in many instances, the implication of that choice would mean giving up the fruits of endgame: gear. You would have to give up on items (Prior to Einherjar) such as Adaman/Armada Hauberk. You would have to give up Ridill. You would have to give up on Hecatomb Legs. You would have to give up on Hecatomb cap. What it essentially meant was the closure of options to certain players, a vast majority of them being individuals in linkshells that could bot. Also, from what I gather on Vent, some bots do allow you to check who is botting.

Now lets look at the other side of your argument. "You can claim without a bot." Of course you can, but it's vastly inconsistent compared to the use of bots. This created a distinction between the characteristic of botting shells and non-botting shells with the former receiving more ambitious players. The impact of this unraveled quite noticeable post-abyssea. As far as Diabolos is concerned, a vast majority of "top tier" shells have demonstrated incompetence in handling Abyssea content. These shells tend to harbor a select few members that can handle the content, but overall, they tend to falter. By falter, I do not mean they are incapable of winning content, but they either struggle or do it in a grossly inefficient manner. Meanwhile, other individuals have thrived under the conditions of Abyssea (Though the speed of new content and gear is difficult for me to manage personally due to RL). The key explanation for why there is a sudden shift in who you consider good is multi-fold.

One reason is that gear tends to signify the belief that a linkshell is good. I don't use the positive notion when I say this ("He has X piece of gear, so he is good"), I mean the negative notion ("Why doesn't he have X piece of gear, all you have to do is claim Y NM, get X to drop from Y NM, and win the lot to X against N number of players). What should be painfully obvious is that the the negative notion tends disadvantages members of linkshells that do not claim consistently.

Another reason is that the NMs tend to remain static. You could easily use the CoP era strategy for fighting Fafnir in the TOAU era. You would be less efficient, but you would still win. Why is this significant? It's significant because it highlighted the role of experience. The consequence of this is that inaccurate comparisons of linkshells emerged. If a non-botting linkshell wiped to Fafnir, was it bad? Certainly. However, the misleading comparison that emerges is that linkshells that haven't wiped to Fafnir are better. It was often the case that these linkshells that claimed consistently simply had more experience than those that wiped. In reality, they were both bad. However, the false belief that emerged was that one linkshell was better than another.

Finally, botting factually (rather than theoretically) rewarded larger shells. Again, conjectures from what I've heard on Vent, the effectiveness of botting increases with numbers because you can designate intervals of claim more easily. That aside, the theoretical belief is that botting helps smaller groups because if bots did not exist, you're statistically looking at less opportunities to claim than larger shells. The empirical finding, however, is that botting shells bloated because their proliferated status (For the reasons mentioned earlier) increased their applications. Furthermore, they could handle large amounts of ambitious players (Unlike large but unsuccessful LSs) because it's easier to engage in clientelism when you have things to offer.

Therefore, unless you really care about his account, stfu.

[Aksannyi]

Wow, rage much? He stated himself, you "need" to bot. I was pointing out that you actually don't.

And clearly someone doesn't read, I admitted to botting myself, but I'm not dumb enough to go to SE and tell them that and claim that their NM systems are flawed because people bot. People bot because of the systems' flaws themselves. Yes, eventually, people botted because their competition was botting and it became a bot vs bot vs bot scenario, but in the beginning and even now, no one needs to bot a fucking thing. They do it because they fucking want to.

[Yugl]

Wow, rage much? He stated himself, you "need" to bot. I was pointing out that you actually don't.

And clearly someone doesn't read, I admitted to botting myself, but I'm not dumb enough to go to SE and tell them that and claim that their NM systems are flawed because people bot.

Therefore, unless you really care about his account, stfu.

People bot because of the systems' flaws themselves. Yes, eventually, people botted because their competition was botting and it became a bot vs bot vs bot scenario, but in the beginning and even now, no one needs to bot a fucking thing. They do it because they fucking want to.

The argument that you didn't have to bot is true, but so fucking obvious that it needs no mention. What most people mean when they say they need to bot is that in order to claim consistently and without having to focus for 0.25-3hrs (Some NMs in intervals), you need a bot. For some LSs, botting was required to joined (As a PS2 player, I understood this implication greatly). You might make a retarded comeback by saying "Well, you don't have to join those shells", but such an assertion fails to consider that in many instances, the implication of that choice would mean giving up the fruits of endgame: gear.

All addressed.

[Odin'sLaw]

i've never understood the meaning of "botting is a means to a means" no its not, botting is like a brandy guild Suck less and pay attention mother fucker