Canada Election 2011

[Mazmaz]

You realize they get prisoners to do telemarketing jobs/internet work/etc. for private companies right?

[*Shinzon*]

And the prison systems themselves don't ever see that money, so how can you define them as for profit? That's inmates making money in work programs with private companies. Nearly every state in the US has had to release a large amount of prisoners because the states can't afford to keep them there. Calling them "for profit" is incredibly misleading.

[aurik]

I think giving inmates a chance and the responsibility of doing a productive job is a huge rehabilitation opportunity.

As is making the prison system capable of actually encouraging rehabilitation by giving it the bandwidth to deal with prisoners as humans, instead of just releasing people as fast as possible due to overcrowding / lack of funding.

Also still laughing at "american style" prisons. Skjie has completely bought into campaign rhetoric. Kinda funy that even though he's a bleeding heart liberal he's dead set against spending any money to bring these people back into productive society.

[Skjie]

he's a bleeding heart liberal

Nope. Good try, though. Again, you get back to insults instead of issues.

Also, apparently no one is paying attention to the growing amount of privately run prisons in the US? Putting low risk offenders into prisons creates a bigger problem than community based rehabilitation.

[aurik]

Watch out for those AMERICAN STYLE PRISONS

[aurik]

Full of mexicans and blacks!

[aurik]

Also you wanted to talk issues, but you have this nonsensical view that defunding prisons is actually doing good for prisoners.

When you want to make sense we can talk.

[Skjie]

I never said defund prisons, I said stop pumping more and more money into prisons. With crime rates falling, building more mega prisons is a stupid idea.


(Right up there with buying planes without a bidding process!)

[Anton]

But your quoted text said that crime and the rate of incarcerations are rising not falling. Overcrowded, underfunded prisons are symptoms of the larger problem.

The National Crime Prevention Council is very conscious of the fact that Canada has one of the highest rates of incarceration of any industrialized country in the world -- one that
is rising at a higher rate than at any other time in the past quarter century. The Canadian criminal justice system is facing severe fiscal pressures, while at the same time public
concern about crime is escalating and demands for harsher sentences are increasing. This is particularly true concerning violent crime. Prison overcrowding and lack of resources
for programming, counselling, and alternatives to incarceration are some symptoms of this dilemma.

Anything you do to rehabilitate prisoners or correct the system is going to cost money. The system is broke, literally and figuratively.

You don't want to de-fund prisons. You don't want more money for prisons. What should we do to correct overcrowded prisons?

[*Shinzon*]

Nope. Good try, though. Again, you get back to insults instead of issues.

Also, apparently no one is paying attention to the growing amount of privately run prisons in the US? Putting low risk offenders into prisons creates a bigger problem than community based rehabilitation.

I don't know where you're reading stuff from, but NYC has pioneered the use of Alternative dispute resolution courts and Innovation courts such as the Red Hook Justice center and Midtown Community court that are designed to take quality of life crimes and low level offenses and funnel them away from the normal court systems, these are the first courts of their kind in the world. Problem is other states have been slow to also adapt these courts and they are expensive to initiate. But once up and running they take a lot of stress away from the courts and help avoid sticking low level offenders in jail by having them serve in drug treatment programs and community service programs.

Also many states have made private prisons illegal, including NYC. There aren't that many facilities, though there are several big facilities, and considering how broke states across the country are they can't afford outside contracting to house inmates on a regular basis since most of those prisons have contracts that charge per inmate held. The point still remains that calling the American correction system for profit is misleading.

[aduidarnenye]

I thought 'for profit prison' just meant that it was run by a private company, not by the government. The profit is the money the company is making off the government to run the prison, not a profit the prison itself is making.

And I thought that the privately run prisons were a bad thing.

[*Shinzon*]

I thought 'for profit prison' just meant that it was run by a private company, not by the government. The profit is the money the company is making off the government to run the prison, not a profit the prison itself is making.

And I thought that the privately run prisons were a bad thing.

Yeah that's just about correct. My point was he labeled the entire American correction system as for profit, which is far from accurate. States still also have to pay for those prisons to house inmates so it's not as if by shipping them to these prisons alleviates the states of all financial burdens.

[Cantih]

Yeah that's just about correct. My point was he labeled the entire American correction system as for profit, which is far from accurate. States still also have to pay for those prisons to house inmates so it's not as if by shipping them to these prisons alleviates the states of all financial burdens.

But it does reduce the state's burden, because the business running the private prison pegs the price lower than what it would cost the state to do it itself.

And it's generally by cutting corners, usually in rehab. Because the goal of a private prison isn't to get people out of prison, it's to keep them in, to keep filling the owner's pockets.

[aurik]

(Right up there with buying planes without a bidding process!)

Is that like not buying helicopters for the low price of 500 million dollars?

[*Shinzon*]

But it does reduce the state's burden, because the business running the private prison pegs the price lower than what it would cost the state to do it itself.

And it's generally by cutting corners, usually in rehab. Because the goal of a private prison isn't to get people out of prison, it's to keep them in, to keep filling the owner's pockets.

Also correct which is why many states, especially those with respected rehab programs have banned the use of private prisons. They don't do anything to serve the correctional goals of the state (the point I made about the NYC courts). The point in that post was just to reinforce a point I made earlier. That is that rather than keep prisoners states will release them by commuting their sentences, some guilty of violent crimes, because they just don't have the money to spend. That was the case in CA, where I believe the number was something like 15,000 inmates being released before their sentences were over to save money.

[aurik]

I might mention that ^ completely undercuts the incentive for rehabilitation.

[Anton]

How can you not vote for this?

[Annihilator]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...in-quebec-poll

Go Jack!

[Bikpik]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/p...in-quebec-poll

Go Jack!

This could make this election at least a little interesting

[Mytiwar]

I don't know where you're reading stuff from, but NYC has pioneered the use of Alternative dispute resolution courts and Innovation courts such as the Red Hook Justice center and Midtown Community court that are designed to take quality of life crimes and low level offenses and funnel them away from the normal court systems, these are the first courts of their kind in the world. Problem is other states have been slow to also adapt these courts and they are expensive to initiate. But once up and running they take a lot of stress away from the courts and help avoid sticking low level offenders in jail by having them serve in drug treatment programs and community service programs.

Also many states have made private prisons illegal, including NYC. There aren't that many facilities, though there are several big facilities, and considering how broke states across the country are they can't afford outside contracting to house inmates on a regular basis since most of those prisons have contracts that charge per inmate held. The point still remains that calling the American correction system for profit is misleading.

This just in, NYC is America.