Comments from the Devs

[Jamison]

If you're meaning 2-3 only, rather than per job, then I think that's terrible.

Yeah.. not that I've put specific ideas to paper, but it would make the most sense that just like abilities and such are unlocked/available per job, it could be the same with summons. Heck, come to think of it, it could be that the summons themselves are the same, however the abilities available to you (from them) vary based on class/job. Either way, I think this is fairly unlikely to happen (even if I do believe it would be a nice gameplay mechanic).

[Kaiyoko]

I think what they should do for the summons is make them for everyone to use, but you can only have 1 equipped at a time. You'd have another list in your ability with all your summons. All the summons would share a large cool down, similar to a 2h. You'd obtain more common summons from the Ifrit like fights that they are planning, but stronger ones you'd be able to obtain through end-game content.

As far as what they could do, I personally see them coming out and doing an ability then going away. I'm not really too fond of how they were in XI, but that was because of the whole class based on them.

[Hyan]

Summon 2h sounds cool and pretty traditional without being retarded. Especially since they look pretty badass in this one.

[Sigmakan]

I had a roommate back in college who was a moderately hardcore EQ player. Swimming as an actual element of that game was implemented pretty well, and did give more variety to the world. Yoshi played EQ, I can see why when people ask questions about swimming, he responds "I'd love to add it, and do something like what EQ did, only more modern and more involved".

Whether we'll ever see it or not is debatable, but it would be a cool mechanic if modeled after EQ, especially if there were a way to implement an underwater dungeon or something (there have been some neat underwater fights in past FF games, so it's not even going totally off reservation to think about, from a "hurr durr this is FF" perspective).

If they are to justify the cost of creating swimming mechanics and content then they'd have to pretty much dedicate an entire expansion pack to underwater content.

Not that its a bad idea . . . could be really cool in fact

[Lucavi]

I think what they should do for the summons is make them for everyone to use, but you can only have 1 equipped at a time. You'd have another list in your ability with all your summons. All the summons would share a large cool down, similar to a 2h. You'd obtain more common summons from the Ifrit like fights that they are planning, but stronger ones you'd be able to obtain through end-game content.

As far as what they could do, I personally see them coming out and doing an ability then going away. I'm not really too fond of how they were in XI, but that was because of the whole class based on them.

They couldn't balance jobs in XI - I don't trust them to balance summons either. All it takes is for one summon to be "better" or more situationally useful than others and the entire community (or whatever community currently remains in XIV) will demand that people only use that summon or face stigmatization.

After the fiasco with XI's jobs (which still aren't balanced, if you'll look at the lovely major thread in XI's section), I cannot trust SE to make changes swiftly enough to balance disparities between classes, much less some major gameplay mechanic like a massive summon.

At this point, I'd rather them be vanity pets so people could at least have the freedom of picking which one they wanted without facing the elitist wrath of the "moral" majority.

[Hyan]

If it wasn't for Yoshida's stupid PvP ideals, I'd just say "whatever". It won't be balanced but it'll be cool as fuck.

Well, as long as they make them easily switchable... Or give each job its own summon. Then it's like a 2h.

[Lucavi]

When you say "like" a 2-hr, are you talking about in terms of its usefulness or its actually cooldown being set to two hours? I certainly hope its not the latter; 2-hour cooldown abilities in this day and age wouldn't do SE a whole lot of service in the "showing people that we're relevant" department.

[Hyan]

I didn't really give it any thought. Whatever works out (and most importantly, looks cool!)

[Kaiyoko]

They couldn't balance jobs in XI - I don't trust them to balance summons either. All it takes is for one summon to be "better" or more situationally useful than others and the entire community (or whatever community currently remains in XIV) will demand that people only use that summon or face stigmatization.

After the fiasco with XI's jobs (which still aren't balanced, if you'll look at the lovely major thread in XI's section), I cannot trust SE to make changes swiftly enough to balance disparities between classes, much less some major gameplay mechanic like a massive summon.

At this point, I'd rather them be vanity pets so people could at least have the freedom of picking which one they wanted without facing the elitist wrath of the "moral" majority.

Balance between a elemental summons are this easy.... Ifrit's power == Shiva's power, BUT different elements. Granted this does not work for every instance because you could have summons that give buffs. I'm saying how they should start it off is the Shiva and Ifrit situation.

Higher tiers, meaning like Bahamut, would be more powerful then say Shiva and Ifrit. Those would need to be obtained in some other way, that is more difficult.

When you say "like" a 2-hr, are you talking about in terms of its usefulness or its actually cooldown being set to two hours? I certainly hope its not the latter; 2-hour cooldown abilities in this day and age wouldn't do SE a whole lot of service in the "showing people that we're relevant" department.

I'm saying usefulness, and I'm not exactly sure how the cooldown would work. What I believe is only 1 per person could be used in an instance, and if you were to wipe on that fight still you could potentially use again ( yes I know that sounds wierd).

Maybe depending on which Summon you use is how long to cooldown is. Say Bahamut wrecks havok, but has an extremely long CD on all Summons for that person then. Or if you use a summon that gives an effect like Heroism/Bloodlust it might have a shorter cooldown on the rest of the summons.

It could be very complicated as far as usefulness / CD.

edit- Summons really just need to have an epic look and feel to the players for the summons, I'd be willing to sacrifice a slight offset in balance for that, but it can't be too much off.
edit2 - Remember I said you have to equip these as well, when talking about CDs, If you equip a summon and use it, it effects all the other summons. The summon you think would help with X battle is the one you equip.

[Gadritan]

When you say "like" a 2-hr, are you talking about in terms of its usefulness or its actually cooldown being set to two hours? I certainly hope its not the latter; 2-hour cooldown abilities in this day and age wouldn't do SE a whole lot of service in the "showing people that we're relevant" department.

Eh? What the hell does that have to do with relevance? They said they wanted to have abilities that ideally could only be used once during an event, becoming a vital part of the strategy. Two hours is a pretty good spot if we end up with similar times for events, say 30m-3hrs.

[Lucavi]

Once per dungeon is fine, but unless the entire game is going to be taking place in a series of dungeon-caves, I'd rather not see the concept of something that can only be used while partying once every two hours. Color me spoiled, but in the world of useful abilities on a 20 minute cooldown MAX, the thought of going back to a "should I use it?! Should I NOT use it?! I have to wait 2 hours if I do~!!!" mindset just isn't that attractive. For a game that's supposedly having an increased focus on a quicker playstyle and having to spend less time engaged in singular tasks, having a 2 hour ability sounds counter-productive, especially if you're going to try and build an entire job around it like they did with XI.

I mean, seriously? Call Wyvern on a 2 hour timer? Is that how you do a pet class?

[Kaiyoko]

Once per dungeon is fine, but unless the entire game is going to be taking place in a series of dungeon-caves, I'd rather not see the concept of something that can only be used while partying once every two hours. Color me spoiled, but in the world of useful abilities on a 20 minute cooldown MAX, the thought of going back to a "should I use it?! Should I NOT use it?! I have to wait 2 hours if I do~!!!" mindset just isn't that attractive. For a game that's supposedly having an increased focus on a quicker playstyle and having to spend less time engaged in singular tasks, having a 2 hour ability sounds counter-productive, especially if you're going to try and build an entire job around it like they did with XI.

I mean, seriously? Call Wyvern on a 2 hour timer? Is that how you do a pet class?

They fixed the Call Wyvern thing.

As far as quick gameplay, I get what you mean. But you have to understand the point in summons is to be epic, not just something that's a pushover ability.

What they should do is still give abilities that fit that 5 - 10 - 20 min ability, similar to 2hs that fit what you're asking for, but at the same time have that unique epic ability that doesn't get to be used often.

[Gadritan]

For a game that's supposedly having an increased focus on a quicker playstyle and having to spend less time engaged in singular tasks, having a 2 hour ability sounds counter-productive, especially if you're going to try and build an entire job around it like they did with XI.

I don't even.

Call wyvern is what you point to here? Really? You still pissed they nerfed penta too? Watch out lancers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the hell is adding an ability with a heavy cooldown going to slow down play? How is it going to bottleneck you into a singular task? You know these things are made to help you get past those singular task a bit more quickly and smoothly if they're difficult. And no, the jobs weren't built around their g'damn 2hrs. I can only assume that's another reference to drg. Herp to that sir.

Having 1 epic ability that has a 2 hour cooldown is seriously that fucking terrible? Having to make a decision on whether to blow your wad or not with it is omfgwtfwrong too right? I mean, you don't think about it before using those 20minute abilities and such right? CD are overated and you should just use everything at once without thinking about it eh?

[miokomioko]

How the hell is adding an ability with a heavy cooldown going to slow down play? How is it going to bottleneck you into a singular task?

Because players have a tendency to only focus on what a class can do best while disregarding anything else they can do. People are idiots and will generally take the path of least resistance. "Slow and steady" doesn't appeal.

[Gadritan]

Because players have a tendency to only focus on what a class can do best while disregarding anything else they can do. People are idiots and will generally take the path of least resistance. "Slow and steady" doesn't appeal.

That makes absolutely no sense. Again, what the fuck does that have to do with having 1 ability with a long cooldown? People aren't going to sit around for 1:59, then fight once and pop their 2hr, then afk for another 1:59.

Spoiler: show

inb4 butppldothatinxi

[Kaiyoko]

That makes absolutely no sense. Again, what the fuck does that have to do with having 1 ability with a long cooldown? People aren't going to sit around for 1:59, then fight once and pop their 2hr, then afk for another 1:59.

Spoiler: show

inb4 butppldothatinxi

Cor will fix that problem

[Lordender]

They couldn't balance jobs in XI - I don't trust them to balance summons either. All it takes is for one summon to be "better" or more situationally useful than others and the entire community (or whatever community currently remains in XIV) will demand that people only use that summon or face stigmatization.

After the fiasco with XI's jobs (which still aren't balanced, if you'll look at the lovely major thread in XI's section), I cannot trust SE to make changes swiftly enough to balance disparities between classes, much less some major gameplay mechanic like a massive summon.

At this point, I'd rather them be vanity pets so people could at least have the freedom of picking which one they wanted without facing the elitist wrath of the "moral" majority.

Thats why they need to fire the guy incharge of job balancing in XI, the guy sucks ass at his job, he is probably the worst in the entire industry. I mean shit, look at freaking WoW, all dps classes are pretty competitive within a few %'s of each other(in PVE content) where people who know what the fuck they're doing are going to pull nice numbers to contribute.

FFXI the same 3-4 jobs severely outperform every other job no matter how much "skill" you think you have. There is so much disparity in the jobs, 9 years later and they still have yet to figure out how to make each job completely competitive with each other. I can't even fathom how a person/team can be so out of touch with how the game is played to continue to allow that to happen.

The fact people say "THEY MADE LEVELING SO EASY NOW IN XI, JUST LEVEL A USEFUL JOB IN A DAY!" that blows my fucking mind, lol, tell that to people who spent all that time getting relics for a job they wanted to play that is now useless due to the way abyssea works. Can you really trust SE to make sure all classes/jobs will be able to contribute in meaningful content in XIV? color me skeptical.

[Lucavi]

They fixed the Call Wyvern thing.

As far as quick gameplay, I get what you mean. But you have to understand the point in summons is to be epic, not just something that's a pushover ability.

What they should do is still give abilities that fit that 5 - 10 - 20 min ability, similar to 2hs that fit what you're asking for, but at the same time have that unique epic ability that doesn't get to be used often.

Yeah, I know they fixed Call Wyvern ages ago, and that's a totally acceptable compromise.

@Gadritan: I'll try to explain it as best I can. Take your "2-hr for an epic boss fight" and throw it out the window. I'm not talking about that, and other games do it better anyway. I'm talking about something as "normal" as Mighty Strikes being labeled and pushed as some massive ability "crazy" enough to only be used once every 2 hours. See, here's the thing:

Its not.

Its crits for 30 seconds, which, in the world of XI's history of slow delay for 2-handers, didn't actually make for a ton of hits. Yes, you can sit here and talk dual-wield up the ass, but the game wasn't built around dual-wield, and ability was never designed to be placed with dual-wield; players tend to always find out the best ways to use each ability, but even players can't find a good enough use for certain moves (looking at you, Mijin; what a shitty 2hr). The ability could have easily been broken into 3 doses of "every physical attack crits for the next 10 seconds", slapped with a 5 minute cooldown, and presto, you've got a nice, usable ability with a fair cooldown. Now a person doesn't have to sit and wait for the "magic" moment to use the ability, and now they can begin to incorporate into their regular playstyle instead of some "oh man, I hope this isn't wasted because I only get one every 2 hours!" deal.

With the number of abilities per class in an average MMO's repertoire by even level 20, the concept of a move that lasts 30 seconds every two hours isn't "amazing" enough to be left on a 2 hour timer. As said above, if you're going to place something on a timer long enough to have multiple types of events completed before its even refreshed, it better be a lot stronger than "turns every physical hit into a crit for 30 seconds". I used Call Wyvern as an example because, looking back on it, it seemed entirely silly to place such a crucial and important part of a Dragoon's job - much less its DPS, solo ability or party utility - onto a 2 hour cooldown, especially when the flying rat could be all but one-shotted by many mobs the dragoon's level. Yes, they eventually buffed the Wyvern's health, and yes, they eventually took Call Wyvern off of the cooldown, but:

A) It took literal years to do that.
B) They still haven't figured out how to incorporate the class, much less the game into a "bring the player, not the class" setting.
C) They're slow as molasses when it comes to actually balancing disparities between not only classes, but the game as a whole. They're entirely content to allow classes to languish for years, yet will immediately patch a mob if players are killing it more than they were expecting players to; an absolutely outdated way of running a MMO.

Again, this is a brand new MMO. SE cannot attempt to claim that they're making a modernized MMO if they're going to re-introduce 2 hour cooldowns on non-essential abilities. I can't think of a single 2-hr in XI that was SO essential that it be placed with such a massive cooldown. Many games place a White Mage's benediction on a 5-10 minute cooldown for healing classes, for example. There's no reason to have such a long delay on an ability that is standard-place in the current market.

[Alkar]

Thats why they need to fire the guy incharge of job balancing in XI, the guy sucks ass at his job, he is probably the worst in the entire industry. I mean shit, look at freaking WoW, all dps classes are pretty competitive within a few %'s of each other(in PVE content) where people who know what the fuck they're doing are going to pull nice numbers to contribute.

FFXI the same 3-4 jobs severely outperform every other job no matter how much "skill" you think you have. There is so much disparity in the jobs, 9 years later and they still have yet to figure out how to make each job completely competitive with each other. I can't even fathom how a person/team can be so out of touch with how the game is played to continue to allow that to happen.

The fact people say "THEY MADE LEVELING SO EASY NOW IN XI, JUST LEVEL A USEFUL JOB IN A DAY!" that blows my fucking mind, lol, tell that to people who spent all that time getting relics for a job they wanted to play that is now useless due to the way abyssea works. Can you really trust SE to make sure all classes/jobs will be able to contribute in meaningful content in XIV? color me skeptical.

Hmm yes, because this is not the same team. You guys keep acting like SE only has one team working on all their games.
Newsflash: they have more than one. Shocking I know.

[Lucavi]

^ Nobody's talking about XIV balance because there's no content to really exclude anyone from. There aren't even that many people playing it; I don't think people can be that judgmental about party balance, when there really isn't an established end-game or even PVP scene to whine about. Right now its more about just grabbing your static or a group of friends and going off to kill things; you're just happy people are logged in and willing to do something other than craft.

I don't think that means we can somehow praise the XIV character team for some kind of amazing balance or anything - not yet anyway.