Comments from the Devs

[miokomioko]

It is most definitely annoying how many times you have to have everyone gather together to receive Protect/Shell/etc. during a single raid. I think their current justification for the short duration is the decidedly low MP costs. Thus, it's something that can easily be adjusted to be less troublesome during events where it shouldn't need such frequent attention while there are more pressing issues at hand (sleeping/curing/nuking/debuffing/party roaming/etc).

[Lucavi]

Aye, its not a big deal now, but its definitely something that shouldn't remain in its current form.

[Lordender]

I love the thinking "We're going to make roaming party the way to go in FFXIV! We want you to roam exp not camping like in FFXI but then give you crappy buff durations" Buffing is so fucking annoying in XIV because nobody stands still long, this wouldn't be such a problem if they just allowed prot/shell be 100+ yard range or something ridiculous if they want to keep it short durations. They could also make both spells instant cast, the point is, they could do something to make it better.

[Tomino]

Is a 5-7 minute recast really being called button spamming now?

It's sad to always be making the same names, by Blizzard manage to cut the "bore" part of class mechanics off with Cataclysm restyle.
"Button spamming", or plain bad design, is anything that the player does without even thinking, something that an automated macro would do in the exact same way.

A lot of wow classes had this determined "skill cycle" where you'd keep pushing A,B,C,A,D forever and ever. A few classes also had skills that were annoying, that had to be kept refreshed with no real purpose exept to make players waste their time. A lot of things where changed in that sense, and most for the good : the new "priority system", as well as a cooldown based design, sure keep the game a little more fun that the old days.


Back on FF14, I still have fully rebuff after every 2 mobs : Prot, Shell, Stoneskin, Spikes. It takes about 10 seconds, for about 30sec of actual fight.
There is no downside, because I have enough mp as GLA to keep rebuffing until the leve's over and after that, my mp will be once again up to 100%. So I wonder, what's the actual point of all this? To make we waste 1 minute? Do I make any kind of decision if or not buff myself? Why would I ever *not* have those buffs up?

If you really thing this is all fine as it is, then I guess we're stil struck in FF11 with a RDM pressing Haste every recast for the whole duration of a merit party.

[Celeras]

If you really thing this is all fine as it is, then I guess we're stil struck in FF11 with a RDM pressing Haste every recast for the whole duration of a merit party.

You're right, I don't see anything wrong with a 5-7 minute buff. Nor bards singing songs in XI. Nor Shamans dropping totems in WoW. People are so quick to throw out "well other games have buffs that last a half hour!" and like to forget that short duration buffs exist just the same, and have their place.

[Hyan]

So I wonder, what's the actual point of all this?

What's the point of what?

Before you could not regenerate MP mid-leve without using items or specific spells or abilities. The MP costs of spells reflected this.

Nowadays you can regenerate MP easily, yet the spell costs of most spells have yet to be changed to reflect the addition of MP regen.

Yes, surprisingly having both old and new mechanics around is not working perfectly in sync after all. Shocking.

[Kaylia]

You're right, I don't see anything wrong with a 5-7 minute buff. Nor bards singing songs in XI. Nor Shamans dropping totems in WoW. People are so quick to throw out "well other games have buffs that last a half hour!" and like to forget that short duration buffs exist just the same, and have their place.

In WoW, that kind of abilities are non intrusive, and won't slow you down at all (can even do them on the move). The gameplay as a whole is responsive, and using something like totems will usually feel natural.

In ff, similar tasks will always involve long casting time, laggy skill selection and targeting, animation lock...etc. It's not just the duration of the buff that is the issue, it's how spell feel as a whole.

[miokomioko]

Nowadays you can regenerate MP easily, yet the spell costs of most spells have yet to be changed to reflect the addition of MP regen.

Wasn't the previous system... terrible? Changing all MP costs to reflect what they did to fix the problem... would create a problem again.

[Hyan]

Wasn't the previous system... terrible? Changing all MP costs to reflect what they did to fix the problem... would create a problem again.

I don't know what you're talking about. The lack of MP regen made the game very leve-centric which sure enough is a problem when the game isn't leve-centric anymore, but what else?

[miokomioko]

I'm not 100% positive because I never really played THM/CON outside of soloing garbage mobs to rank-20... but I recall many complaints about how much MP restoration was a big issue back then.

Perhaps I'm just missing your point. It seemed as though you were previously implying that spells need to cost more to balance out the added MP regen... even though, as you mentioned, the game is no longer centered on the activities that fully replenish your MP.

Also, I don't think it was the lack of MP-regen that made the game centered on leves. The mechanics of their skill gains bonuses and specific ones that spawned endless mobs in conjunction with it were most likely to blame.

[Alkar]

I'm not 100% positive because I never really played THM/CON outside of soloing garbage mobs to rank-20... but I recall many complaints about how much MP restoration was a big issue back then.

Perhaps I'm just missing your point. It seemed as though you were previously implying that spells need to cost more to balance out the added MP regen... even though, as you mentioned, the game is no longer centered on the activities that fully replenish your MP.

Also, I don't think it was the lack of MP-regen that made the game centered on leves. The mechanics of their skill gains bonuses and specific ones that spawned endless mobs in conjunction with it were most likely to blame.

MP was an issue only between 1-20 THM. After that Siphon MP was more than enough.

[Hyan]

It seemed as though you were previously implying that spells need to cost more to balance out the added MP regen... even though, as you mentioned, the game is no longer centered on the activities that fully replenish your MP.

Either or they remove the MP replenishment of those activities. As well as balance them so that by spamming you will run out of mana mid-leve.

Either way my point was that the rest of the game has not been rebalanced in regards to the addition of MP regen.

[ascalon]

Or maybe, just maybe, the game for the time being is built around an action point system. And that if the buffs lasted an hour, you would just equip them for the cast and then take them off immediately to min/max for other things.

Fking brain surgeons.

I think you're forgetting that you have to wait the entire length of the cooldown after equipping an ability before you can actually use it. I suppose you COULD technically equip it before logging out, cast when you log in, unequip to swap for something more useful, then have an hour of buff. But then you'd still need to re-equip it and wait the hour before you could buff it again.

Thus it'd just be easier to keep it equipped all the time.

I understand WHY the cooldown for equipping is in place, of course. Stops you changing abilities in combat, or just completely changing class on a whim as needed (for example, equipping raise after a wipe then de-equipping it after everyone is rezzed). The easiest thing to do would be to have a longer duration buff, but for the buff to disappear if you unequip it or change class, as people have suggested. If that's too difficult a task for professional game programmers, then I really don't see FFXIV getting anywhere.

[Lucavi]

You're right, I don't see anything wrong with a 5-7 minute buff. Nor bards singing songs in XI. Nor Shamans dropping totems in WoW. People are so quick to throw out "well other games have buffs that last a half hour!" and like to forget that short duration buffs exist just the same, and have their place.

Funny you mention shaman totems considering how Blizzard has continuously attempted to revamp them to allow for them to be deployed faster and in a more efficient and less-effort-inducing manner. What is it, one button now can drop an entire set? Shit, you can RUN while dropping totems. That is -NOTHING- like XIV's recasting of buffs. At. All. You're fine with using Shaman totems as an example, yet you're against people wanting SE to do the same thing in streamlining something that takes awhile to do, doesn't last a long time, and, most importantly, can be easily streamlined at the user's benefit?

A better example for you to use would have been Rift's bard songs, some of which take some time, and all of which have a fixed radius, but even still, I wouldn't go trying to compare the concepts of games that are actually -making money- as opposed to XIV.

[Celeras]

I'm not trying to argue that the game isn't terrible, I'm arguing that you're a fucking retard for thinking short-term buffs are for some reason taboo.

[Vuitton]

i concur

[Tomino]

I'm arguing that you're a fucking retard for thinking short-term buffs are for some reason taboo.

The point is not about the *duration* of the buff. It's about the meaning of the buff and so, how it should be applied.

In FF14 there is no reason *not* to have buffs up. You can use them? Then do it, you'll be stronger. Period. The only available choice is between spikes.
So, since I have Protect skill equipped and it's always better to have it on, why should I keep telling the game "yes, I want to use Protect" every 3 minutes? Does this relate to any kind of fun?
There's no "turn issue", because you cast buffs before engaging. There's no "mp issue" because you have plenty to keep refreshing said buff over and over.


I'm fine with having to deal with choices every 3 mins, but that's if there are interesting decisions to make.
FF11 stances were a good idea, for example.

[Lucavi]

I'm not trying to argue that the game isn't terrible, I'm arguing that you're a fucking retard for thinking short-term buffs are for some reason taboo.

Short term buffs are fine if they don't involve being forced to stand still, being forced to make everyone else stand still, being forced into a relatively lengthy cast animation, being forced to "engage" before beginning said casting animation, ect. I could go on and on, but what's the point? SE has no idea how to incorporate buffs period, so why even attempt to argue your case? There are plenty of other companies and MMOs that know how do do short-term buffs. There are also plenty of other companies and MMOs that are actually profitable.

Perhaps when SE gets one correct, they'll get both correct. Perhaps. You want a short term buff? Make it a single goddamn click, usable while on the move, and move the fuck on. Done. Save the huge, lengthy buffs for the huge, lengthy spells, but wait, other MMO's use short effects for massive buffs as well... Shit. Sorry, SE.

[Lordender]

Short term buffs are fine if they don't involve being forced to stand still, being forced to make everyone else stand still, being forced into a relatively lengthy cast animation, being forced to "engage" before beginning said casting animation, ect. I could go on and on, but what's the point? SE has no idea how to incorporate buffs period, so why even attempt to argue your case? There are plenty of other companies and MMOs that know how do do short-term buffs. There are also plenty of other companies and MMOs that are actually profitable.

Perhaps when SE gets one correct, they'll get both correct. Perhaps. You want a short term buff? Make it a single goddamn click, usable while on the move, and move the fuck on. Done. Save the huge, lengthy buffs for the huge, lengthy spells, but wait, other MMO's use short effects for massive buffs as well... Shit. Sorry, SE.

You shouldn't be surprised by any of this.

[Celeras]

Short term buffs are fine, but I'm going to argue about how bad the game is anyway even though that isn't what anyone was talking about.

Thanks for clearing that up.