Comments from the Devs

[Gokulo]

What would be more logical is if you had requirements from different classes in order to get that job (such as having varying amounts of CON and THM to pick up BLM or WHM).

That wouldn't make much sense seeing as they mentioned jobs are just party specs for each class. E.g. PLD getting more HP but less att. Generally, adding more of what they call "class identity" to each class - thus actually making req a mix of a couple classes would be weird.

[Hiruke]

I don't know how that's any more or less weird than BLM not having Drain and Aspir (Siphon MP!) if you don't have THM leveled up (if BLM is based on CON), or BLM not having elemental nukes (if you don't have CON leveled up and it's based on THM).

Or, you know, archer-bards.

I also don't see how PLD is going to get any Cure abilities without CON or THM leveled up to begin with. Now that would be weird. Layering PLD on top of your 50 GLD and suddenly you have Cure III even though CON and THM are at 0. How would that work?

[miokomioko]

Yeah, they pretty much already spelled it out in interviews that jobs are going to be extensions/specializations of classes that help them excel in the aspects you need them to while weakening other aspects.

As obvious as it should be, they are not going to scrap the existing classes... let alone the tons backstory that exists within them making sense to why they exist.

[Hiruke]

I don't think, and never have thought, that they would scrap classes - as obvious as that should be. I don't agree that scrapping something that's already there is outside of the realm of possibility, especially considering that's mostly what they've been doing lately.

The conversation was about what makes sense. Honestly, without more information, that's pretty much nothing.

The new system could be amazing, or ridiculously stupid. Hopefully it's the former, because with 1.19 things look like they will finally be heading upward, and I'd hate to have all hope crushed directly afterward with news that the job system is going to be terrible.

[miokomioko]

I don't think, and never have thought, that they would scrap classes - as obvious as that should be. I don't agree that scrapping something that's already there is outside of the realm of possibility, especially considering that's mostly what they've been doing lately.

It's not really super obvious when you had just said:

I'd be happier if they just scrapped the current classes and retooled them into the jobs, rather than trying to layer the jobs on top of the classes. They couldn't reasonably layer BLM on top of THM without making you also have CON leveled, or by moving those abilities from CON to THM (at which point they'd probably have to rewrite most of the lore for the 2 classes - wihch I think they should do anyway and just scrap classes altogether as stated previously).

Either way, it's not terribly difficult in any way to imagine that they could easily add abilities/spells to jobs. There's ways to give a Paladin methods of restoring HP besides requiring the player to level up THM/CON. There's plenty of potential for things to make sense. You're writing off people's logical speculations by throwing out the speculations that it could just outright suck. What is the point?

(besides the fact that you're disregarding or unaware of a number of things that have already been established by developer interviews)

[Spider-Dan]

I don't know how that's any more or less weird than BLM not having Drain and Aspir (Siphon MP!) if you don't have THM leveled up (if BLM is based on CON), or BLM not having elemental nukes (if you don't have CON leveled up and it's based on THM).

Drain and Aspir are not BLM mainstays like the elemental lines. XI BLM doesn't even get Drain II.

I also don't see how PLD is going to get any Cure abilities without CON or THM leveled up to begin with. Now that would be weird. Layering PLD on top of your 50 GLD and suddenly you have Cure III even though CON and THM are at 0. How would that work?

How does PGL get Taunt at R10 even with R0 GLA?
How can CON have Shield Bash with R0 GLA?
How does LNC get Collusion at R30 with THF not even unlockable yet?

You get the abilities that they assign to your class/job. Why would PLD "need" some other class leveled to have access to an innate ability? Would SE need to call PLD's spell line Heal-Heal II-Heal III (but do exactly the same thing as Cure line) to satisfy your requirements?

[Kurokikaze]

They already said it wont be Paladin... It'll be Knight.

[Lucavi]

Paladin would = self-healing, while Knight doesn't have to - he can just = massive defense.

[Sephiroth]

Nothing will make me rage harder than assigning BRD to ARC. And I raged hard when I discovered ARC wasn't getting auto attack, something that remains a massive chore whenever I want to play the class due to the timer bug. I hate the idea of playing BRD even more than I do WHM. I'm cool with one of my mages getting WHM (another job I'd never play) because one mage has to get it but giving ARC BRD makes zero sense.

Anyway I am expecting CON to lose its BLM spells and be given to THM. In exchange CON gets some THM spells. Lore and quests redone. I don't see any other way they could do it other than giving CON two jobs, but that was ruled out.

[miokomioko]

That's a pretty steep change to lore if you try to remove Conjurers' ability to communicate with and channel the elements that are the entirety of Gridanian lore.

[Amiricle]

Its possible that Musketeer would be a support job rather than archer? Already have a ranged physical dd class with archer that works (possibly too well), so what point would there to be adding another class that does the same thing? Musketeer may well be a corsair/bard job. Or hell it may well be that both ranged attackers will get support abilities to bring more than just damage to the party table. Archer/bard, & musketeer/corsair. Hell, maybe they'll layer archer with the BST job making them like WoW hunters?

As for conjurer, its very obviously a whm/blm hybrid, and very likely will be able to become a full Whm or Blm. If they are only adding one to start, whos to say they wont be adding the option to choose from 2 or even 3 job classes per weapon class down the road?

Who knows, its all pure conjecture. No point getting worked up about it till the information is revealed.

[Corrderio]

They already said it wont be Paladin... It'll be Knight.

IIRC isn't Knight the JP name for Paladin? I do know some JP players that typed in English called me a Knight in FFXI.

[miokomioko]

I'm hoping Musketeer is a ranged-DD + enfeebler hybrid. Either way, I know I'm going to make sure my alchemy is up by the time that comes around.

[Sagacious Sundi]

It could be that BLM won't be the Final Fantasy black mage we're all used to. Not an elementalist, just an expert in the dark arts. In FFXI terms, a job with only dark and enfeebling magic plus more dark-elemental nukes. (Or umbral. Whatever.)

And maybe "WHM" will get elemental support spells, like SCH's storms, in order to justify coming from CON. Plus make the current buffs look more elemental in nature.

Basically, even though they'll have the WHM and BLM names, they'll be more like Light Arts SCH and dark knight minus the knight. But that's just my guess. The fact that arcanists might become geomancers kinda throws a wrench in this idea.

[Kurokikaze]

As for conjurer, its very obviously a whm/blm hybrid, and very likely will be able to become a full Whm or Blm. If they are only adding one to start, whos to say they wont be adding the option to choose from 2 or even 3 job classes per weapon class down the road?

Wrong. That is the single biggest problem with CONs at the moment.

As for that second part of your comment... That is possible. I do recall reading a while back Yoshi saying that we're only getting 1 job per class for now but it might change in the future.

IIRC isn't Knight the JP name for Paladin? I do know some JP players that typed in English called me a Knight in FFXI.

It's possible that you may be correct there.

[Kurokikaze]

I've already outlined the best way to fix the THM/CON scenario without touching the lore:

- Move Cure 1, 2, 3 / Curaga 1, 2 / Raise 1, 2, 3 over to THM.
- Move Sacrifice 1, 2 over to CON. Eliminate Sacrifice 3.
- Move Resurrect to CON.

And done. You now have a dedicated nuker (CON -> BLM) and a dedicated healer (THM -> WHM). Also, if you look at the lore it kinda makes sense this way.

There will never again be confusion over what you should be doing in your party as these classes. Maybe a few other spells could be moved around, but those are the major ones.

It goes without saying but obviously nukes need to be either buffed or resists rates need to be looked at. Might happen when stats get fixed.

[Kaiyoko]

I've already outlined the best way to fix the THM/CON scenario without touching the lore:

- Move Cure 1, 2, 3 / Curaga 1, 2 / Raise 1, 2, 3 over to THM.
- Move Sacrifice 1, 2 over to CON. Eliminate Sacrifice 3.
- Move Resurrect to CON.

And done. You now have a dedicated nuker (CON -> BLM) and a dedicated healer (THM -> WHM). Also, if you look at the lore it kinda makes sense this way.

There will never again be confusion over what you should be doing in your party as these classes. Maybe a few other spells could be moved around, but those are the major ones.

It goes without saying but obviously nukes need to be either buffed or resists rates need to be looked at. Might happen when stats get fixed.

-Give COJ banish I & II
-Give COJ enfeebs
-Give THM elementals
-Switch the jobs city states (COJ = THM lore and THM = COJ lore now)

That's how I would fix it.

[miokomioko]

Argh, it's CON!

White Mage armor is more similar to Thaumaturges' style... and Black Mage armor is more similar Conjurers' style.

I would hope they just push the curing duties/capabilities over to THM and let them be more of a Blood Mage-style White Mage... and let the Conjurers keep their appropriate elemental junk.

[Corrderio]

Honestly, I want to see how Yoshida can do the job system with the train wreck of classes being mix n' matches of jobs.

[Waraji]

-Give THM elementals
-Switch the jobs city states (COJ = THM lore and THM = COJ lore now)

That's how I would fix it.

How exactly would this make sense from a financial & logical standpoint? It is much easier to just redistribute skills only, and quite possibly eliminate some discrepancies in lore, seeing as by definition(dictionary) CON is the BLM type and THM is the WHM type.

Doing a complete switch of city states is an immense amount of work that I am more than willing to bet would never cross their minds to even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.