Comments from the Devs

[Waraji]

Theres another possibility in that the Con and Thm weapon classes will both be able to choose either of the Whm or Blm job classes. So we will have Whm/Con's & Whm/Thm's as well as Blm/Con's and Blm/Thm's come that patch.

http://i.qkme.me/37ew.jpg

[Hyan]

Why are they going to make more races, goddamn that's some dumb shit.

Get the missing genders in and create new classes and enhance the current races instead.

[Greedouw]

Why are they going to make more races, goddamn that's some dumb shit.

Get the missing genders in and create new classes and enhance the current races instead.

New races? what?

[Hyan]

Though new races are quite far off in the future, once various fixes are made, the PlayStation 3 version launches, and the timing is right for an expansion, we will be adding original races to the world of FFXIV.

First, to coincide with the PS3 launch, we will be adding female Roegadyns and other genders to those races that are currently lacking. The next step is to look into new races.

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[Draylo]

Viera!

[Fiddle Sticks]

Are you serious?

CON nuking is the best DD in the game right now. Have you not watched those Darkhold speed run videos with like 6 CONs? Can't go wrong with 1000 damage magic bursts that don't require TP.

You do realize they are using THM's banish and scourge. CON nukes sucks donkey balls right now.

[Kurokikaze]

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Thats stuff to excite new players... Why is this a bad a thing?

PS3 release... We're not there yet bro, and we probably wont be till about 1.21 (November) at the earliest. You can chill.

[Alkar]

Because CON nuking is so feeble that it would be trivial for BLM to put them under the table?

THM healing was already incredibly godlike. CON nuking is far from it.


Yes, because there's no way that they would add spells to a job that didn't have those spells before. Oh, wait, this isn't the Paladin thread.

No matter how you slice it, since there's only one job per class (in this update), CON will have to miss out on either WHM or BLM. Given that the BLM armor has been showcased, it seems likely that BLM will be released. So, given that:

1) CON nuking is not viable as a legitimate DD strategy, and
2) THM healing is incredibly inferior post-update

...giving BLM to CON and [a healing job] to THM kills two birds with one stone. Furthermore, while that healing job could be RDM, DNC, etc., if it's WHM then the issue of healer-priority-perception is also resolved.

Now, you tell me: what does giving BLM to THM solve? THM already has a damage role in endgame-type fights. With your option (CON->WHM, THM->BLM) CON and THM would essentially become useless junior-grade classes. With my option (CON->BLM, THM->WHM), each class gets more options for lower-level content and a (mostly opposing) specialist role for high-level content. You get both specialization and flexibility. Sounds like a win-win.

THM is currently the best nuker in the game after the recent damage boosts. CON is the best healer.
Giving BLM to THM would improve what they already do best, same for CON. That's pretty much what specs are for.
And you're saying that they could easily add Cures, -na spells and every buff CON has to THM but they can't do the same for nukes?
Like I said SE's plan is to have jobs used in raids and 8 man party content while classes will remain available for more casual content. With melee classes getting upgrades to their current class (Lancer> Dragoon for example and Gladiator getting Paladin to tank better) why do you guys assume that mages will work in a completely opposite way?
Why would they try to give certain roles to classes and then change everything when they add jobs so that each class can be the same again?
Besides the lore and storyline already depicts Conjurers as a protective kind of class with them caring about the forest and elementals while THMs go around and kill enemies as well as not caring that much about destroying things.
I've been playing FFXI for years and it's quite easy to tell a shitty WHM from a good one. One of the two learned to control enmity and actually keep the group alive, something that a class that's spamming nukes for 30 levels obviously doesn't have (and I obviously was talking about new players requiring training in this. All other MMOs don't really count as they're carbon copies of each other most of the time).
I suppose in the original FF they should've upgraded White Mage to Black Wizard and Black Mage to White Wizard so they could be effective in both fields.
Jobs will have their own story so anything can happen anyway.
All it takes is a Thaumaturge learning the way of the Conjurer and adding his own twist to the thing and bam! BLM.

So if you acknowledge that SE isn't going to do that, WTF are you arguing, exactly?

Had you actually bothered to read I was just pointing out my pov about this whole mess. Giving Conjurers both jobs would solve everything but SE isn't going to do that and they've decided to give Conjurers a healing role.

[Gadritan]

I've been playing FFXI for years and it's quite easy to tell a shitty WHM from a good one.

I've seen a few in my day. I can tell by the pixels and such.

[Hyan]

Thats stuff to excite new players... Why is this a bad a thing?

PS3 release... We're not there yet bro, and we probably wont be till about 1.21 (November) at the earliest. You can chill.

It's such a load of work for (imo) small benefit that will only lead into more work later in the game's lifespan. It's not like we're meant to play with multiple characters (thank god for that). It's just a cosmetic feature for most of us. Then, they need to fit all the items for the new race, create new animations and so on. Plus, if sometime later they want to add new weapons or even just skills, the additional work adds up. Lastly, the animations in this game could use for some improvements, so personally I'd rather have the existing assets to be improved.

There will be a time when they will start thinking about costs once again, and I don't want the new races to be the bottleneck at that time.

[Waraji]

I've seen a few in my day. I can tell by the pixels and such.

mYes... Quite..
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_KZxVxmfWsY.../s400/Buzz.jpg

[Sephiroth]

You do realize they are using THM's banish and scourge. CON nukes sucks donkey balls right now.

I know they use Banish and Scourge too, but I was under the impression that Fire and Aero are commonly used too. Guessing due to mob weaknesses to certain elements? Even so CON is still a good nuker, just so happens Banish and Scourge are better spells due to the DoTs they add. Would be like adding Frost, Choke etc. to elemental nukes. Hey now there's a good idea! Would save some bar space for sure.

[Spider-Dan]

THM is currently the best nuker in the game after the recent damage boosts. CON is the best healer.
Giving BLM to THM would improve what they already do best, same for CON. That's pretty much what specs are for.

It would also obsolete CON and THM, which I doubt is the intention.

And you're saying that they could easily add Cures, -na spells and every buff CON has to THM but they can't do the same for nukes?

From a spell standpoint, it doesn't matter either way. From a storyline standpoint, CONs are already focused on nature and the elements, while THM is focuses on life and death, light and dark. CON->BLM/THM->WHM is storyline specialization but gameplay flexibility.

Like I said SE's plan is to have jobs used in raids and 8 man party content while classes will remain available for more casual content. With melee classes getting upgrades to their current class (Lancer> Dragoon for example and Gladiator getting Paladin to tank better) why do you guys assume that mages will work in a completely opposite way?

1) You have no idea what Dragoon does or how it will work, relative to LNC.
2) There are five DoW but only two DoM. Making one DoM the only capable healer in the game creates the same bottleneck they were trying to avoid when they gave both DoM healing abilities in the first place.

Why would they try to give certain roles to classes and then change everything when they add jobs so that each class can be the same again?

Or, phrased differently, "Why would they buff THM to the best healer in the game, nerf them down, and then make them the best healer again?"

The answer is rather straightforward: THM will have to specialize in healing to be the best healer, unlike before when THM was the best healer, the best soloer, the best DoT, and the best nuker all at once.

Besides the lore and storyline already depicts Conjurers as a protective kind of class with them caring about the forest and elementals while THMs go around and kill enemies as well as not caring that much about destroying things.

Not really, no.

I've been playing FFXI for years and it's quite easy to tell a shitty WHM from a good one. One of the two learned to control enmity and actually keep the group alive, something that a class that's spamming nukes for 30 levels obviously doesn't have (and I obviously was talking about new players requiring training in this. All other MMOs don't really count as they're carbon copies of each other most of the time).

Right, because there is something in this game that is so complex and nuanced that you need to learn how to do it over many months, not in a matter of hours.

I suppose in the original FF they should've upgraded White Mage to Black Wizard and Black Mage to White Wizard so they could be effective in both fields.

You're right... making the class with Cure and Protect into a Black Wizard (while making the job with neither of those into a White Wizard) is stupid and ridiculous. However, making the job with Fire and Blizzard into a White Wizard just makes sense.

Had you actually bothered to read I was just pointing out my pov about this whole mess.

If your pov is about things that even YOU acknowledge definitely aren't going to happen, why are you wasting everyone else's time?

[Spider-Dan]

I know they use Banish and Scourge too, but I was under the impression that Fire and Aero are commonly used too. Guessing due to mob weaknesses to certain elements? Even so CON is still a good nuker, just so happens Banish and Scourge are better spells due to the DoTs they add. Would be like adding Frost, Choke etc. to elemental nukes. Hey now there's a good idea! Would save some bar space for sure.

Hey, you know what would be amazing? If they added those effects to, say, BLM. Then CON's nukes would be just as good as THM's!

That probably doesn't have anything to do with the discussion that's happening in this exact thread right this moment, though.

[Hiroishime]

Scourge and Banish doesn't add DoTs......>_>

[Alkar]

Why are you even picking that comment apart instead of focusing on the fact that what you're suggesting makes no sense whatsoever?
Look through the Dev tracker and interviews... jobs are meant to replace classes in raid content. Classes only remain for leves and casual content you can enjoy alone or with a couple friends.
There's no choice involved here: jobs will force your class to play in one way during raids and events.
You think people are going to take a THM with WHM equipped and grab another THM to nuke? When CON would be a better choice because of BLM?
Why even bother with buffing CON healing capabilities and THM nukes if they aren't going to have that role in the future?
You do realize that cross-class abilities exist in the game right? THM can equip cures and be just fine in smaller events.
It doesn't work that way. You don't turn a class into the best healer in the game and then make them nuke in content that actually matters.
That's like making Gladiator a pure tank class and then give them Warrior as a job.
Conjurer does not focus only on the elements, it also has protective spells and cures as well as status removal. Is it really that hard to grasp that a restricted group of Conjurers could decide to focus on the healing aspect?
Jobs will have a storyline which will differ from the classes, what Conjurer and Thaumaturge are about now won't matter much.

[Spider-Dan]

You think people are going to take a THM with WHM equipped and grab another THM to nuke? When CON would be a better choice because of BLM?

First of all, THM will still have DoTs. Second, THM as a nuker (in a world where CON gets BLM) would still be a hell of a better than THM as a healer (in a world where THM doesn't get WHM).

Why even bother with buffing CON healing capabilities and THM nukes if they aren't going to have that role in the future?

Why bother buffing CON heals and THM nukes if you intend on completely obsoleting both improvements with the jobs you are going to assign them?

"Training?"

You do realize that cross-class abilities exist in the game right? THM can equip cures and be just fine in smaller events.

Um, THM has its own native healing abilities. As you may have heard, they were recently adjusted. And the cross-class healing abilities available to THM (<--- this part is important) aren't significantly better.

It doesn't work that way. You don't turn a class into the best healer in the game and then make them nuke in content that actually matters.

This is the most asinine description of the healer dynamic I've ever read.

SE didn't turn CON into the best healer in the game, in any meaningful sense of the term. They nerfed the hell out of CON; it costs 187 MP for an AoE heal that used to cost 20 MP, their MP recovery was drastically reduced, etc. CON became the best healer by default, because CON got stabbed while THM (who was a damn sight better than CON is now) got shot.

Saying that SE turned CON into the best healer is like going around and chopping off all the legs of everyone in your town and then saying that you have become the fastest runner.

[Sephiroth]

Scourge and Banish doesn't add DoTs......>_>

Correct, I just assumed that's what those debuffs were that appear on the mob. Seems they just reduce umbral and astral defence meaning it should resist less on future casts. Interesting.

[miokomioko]

It's the resist rates on elemental spells that is making them suck buttholes. CON is pretty awesome at nuking hard on any trash mob... until the trash mob is like 15 levels above them.

[Hyan]

Yoshida's engrish cracks me up.