Comments from the Devs

[sruon]

Trying too hard etc

[Kurokikaze]

Did you an I play the same game? Mobs in XI didn't have agro radius. They followed you to the zone line or till you were a mile away (and even then you weren't safe).

sruon it's Draylo. What do you expect?

[Vuitton]

So purposely evading mobs and sneaking around doesn't add depth at all to a game? There were plenty of situations in FFXI where this applied and to me it brought about some strategy or required some thinking. Any idiots can run charging in past the mobs until they stopped chasing, it wasn't like that in FFXI. You had to be careful as you walked past them or as you were fighting something not to aggro something else. You had to have an understanding of what aggroed, what it aggroed to and how to avoid it. There was depth in that and idk how you can't see it. Seems like a lot of the trolls in this section are WoW tards.

I agree with you. It was especially awesome in high danger maps.

-Solo climbing to the top of U. Range avoiding truesight mobs and keeping sneak/invis up for the other mobs was exilirating.
-Running around Riverne for missions or quests and avoiding all of the aggro there, including the truesight mobs. Solo'ing was even better since it was level capped at the time and being able to sleep mobs to run to the teleoports or die.
-Pathing around Promyvions truesound mobs on your way to the top.
-Running around the Sacrarium with sneak on and avoiding the truesight mobs for missions and solo for the exp scroll weekly quest.
-Avoiding magic aggro bombs and low hp aggro mobs.

I thought it was a lot of fun and added a lot of depth and complexity that helped made the game fun and unique.

Remember the RotZ mission (back in the day when there was no CoP) and running an alliance through Ifrit's Cauldron and trying to keep sneak and invis up on everyone and finding your way through to get to the stone monument? :3

[Lordender]

FFXI was hard?

[Draylo]

Did you an I play the same game? Mobs in XI didn't have agro radius. They followed you to the zone line or till you were a mile away (and even then you weren't safe).

sruon it's Draylo. What do you expect?

I guess the sarcasm went over your head? I know they didn't have an aggro radius, I was referring to how it is in FFXIV where you can run out of their little area and they run back. It wasn't like that in FFXI because they would end up chasing you. If there are true sight mobs you need to sneak around them as someone said earlier "MGS" and there were many different assaults/missions/dynamis (windurst especially) that this was true for.

Trying too hard etc

I hope you are referring to Kuro because generic internet meme doesn't apply here when two other people are saying the same thing lol

[Gadritan]

Don't even LE, lol. FM had plenty of wipe o' ramallamas too. It seems like it was a cakewalk in hindsight when that perfect strat was found and jobs were buffed.

Edit: Pleasssseeee let's not rehash this whole fuckterclust of an argument again though. That was terrible.

[Draylo]

I agree with you. It was especially awesome in high danger maps.

-Solo climbing to the top of U. Range avoiding truesight mobs and keeping sneak/invis up for the other mobs was exilirating.
-Running around Riverne for missions or quests and avoiding all of the aggro there, including the truesight mobs. Solo'ing was even better since it was level capped at the time and being able to sleep mobs to run to the teleoports or die.
-Pathing around Promyvions truesound mobs on your way to the top.
-Running around the Sacrarium with sneak on and avoiding the truesight mobs for missions and solo for the exp scroll weekly quest.
-Avoiding magic aggro bombs and low hp aggro mobs.

I thought it was a lot of fun and added a lot of depth and complexity that helped made the game fun and unique.

Remember the RotZ mission (back in the day when there was no CoP) and running an alliance through Ifrit's Cauldron and trying to keep sneak and invis up on everyone and finding your way through to get to the stone monument? :3

Yup perfect examples, CoP back in the day was a good one. I hated Ule range myself though lol, sometimes the damn minotar would aggro as I ran up to do ENM and when I thought it was gone a horde of demons came and raped me as I waited my normal 30m for the ice wall to go down.

[Niiro]

Yeah wasn't like there were true sight/sound mobs or mobs that aggro HP right? That you couldn't just run out of their radius to get rid of *rolleyes*

Imps, tauri and hippos, yes they were everywhere in the game weren't they?

And HP aggro, o man that was as hard as not being a moron and running around a place with undead while having low HP.

[Rocl]

Running through Mor Dhona at Rank 25 reminded me of Uleuguerand so I'm confused.

[Draylo]

Imps, tauri and hippos, yes they were everywhere in the game weren't they?

And HP aggro, o man that was as hard as not being a moron and running around a place with undead while having low HP.

Too weak, doesn't even deserve a full response.

[Kurokikaze]

Running through Mor Dhona at Rank 25 reminded me of Uleuguerand so I'm confused.

As am I. I'm not sure I understand this whole circle jerk about S/I-ing around mobs being "exhilarating" or even remotely challenging.

If anything the necessity of such things was a waste of inventory space and an extra timesink (but then again timesinks are what define FFXI).

[Kaylia]

True sight, patrols, and special mechanics (ghrah, zdei) add depth to the gameplay, and I don't think anybody disagree. However, what you guys are calling "stealth" here is the complete opposite. Stealth refers to abilities like sneak/invi that make your character immune to everything, it doesn't say anything about skillfull play to avoid monsters.

Skipping everything can be fun occasionally, but it's a design issue when players are doing it because you have a timer, or because the battle system is boring and unrewarding.

[Kurokikaze]

True sight, normal sight aggro, patrol, or monster with special aggroing mechanics add a depth to the gameplay, and I don't think anybody disagree. I don't know why you guys are talking about true sight as a stealth mechanics, when it's the exact opposite.


Sneak/invi and training everything are not great gameplay addition. Skipping everything can be fun occasionally, but it should be designed as such. Skipping everything because the trash is not worthwhile and boring to kill mean there is a problem with the game design.

Worded it better than I could.

[Kurokikaze]

In regards to linkable/clickable items/spells/quests/etc in the chat log:

We know that the ability to link items, as well as quests and maps, into the chat window is an extremely convenient feature, and while it would be very difficult to implement, we will do our best to research just how feasible it will be to introduce.

God damn server issues again. Its amazing the simple things you take for granted in other games that's apparently not exactly feasible here.

[Draylo]

I am talking about what someone was saying earlier:

Seriously? I hope you can figure out the answer since we're about to get a shittier version of it in this game.

I know I liked nyzul when it wasn't about killing everything on the way. Low-hp aggro mobs around you while you try to kill a boss? Pulling a triple gear amidst several single gears while avoiding aggro And linking at the same time (granted the pathing always needed rework, so it wasn't perfect).

You simply don't have these kind of mechanics in this game. Mob is close, it aggroes. Mob isnt close, it doesnt aggro. Thats it.

The same mechanics that made FFXI more in depth are non-existent in FFXIV. None of that is here, this last line in the quote says it all. It seems really cheesy to me to train everything until you get out of its radius and then it runs back.

[miokomioko]

Standing still should make you undetectable by sound-aggressive creatures. It's little mechanics like that make things fun. Like an event where maybe something(s) sound-aggressive patrols/swarms by and you have to stand still and silent (no chatting in party/linkshell) to let it go by without attracting its attention... or perhaps a better-excuted Zdei-style rotating/patrolling thing your group has to avoid being seen by.

I'm all for these types of things and the more capable we are of just sitting on a bird, or hitting sneak/invis to bypass having to think or pay attention... the more monotonous the game becomes to me. The existing XIV aggro system is a joke and incredibly inconsistent. It needs to be overhauled to make some sort of sense.

[Kurokikaze]

Standing still should make you undetectable by sound-aggressive creatures. It's little mechanics like that make things fun. Like an event where maybe something(s) sound-aggressive patrols/swarms by and you have to stand still and silent to let it go by without attracting its attention... or perhaps a better-excuted Zdei-style rotating/patrolling thing your group has to avoid being seen by.

I agree that sounds like some sort of fun red-light/green-light type game... but as fun as that sounds. It'll be fun the first 3 times then annoying/timesink afterwards.

Let's also not forget that that level or detection/response time is not feasible with these servers and the shit netcode in this game. "WTF IT WAS A MILE AWAY!!" - actually it was right next to you - you just couldn't see that in time.

[Kaylia]

Standing still should make you undetectable by sound-aggressive creatures. It's little mechanics like that make things fun. Like an event where maybe something(s) sound-aggressive patrols/swarms by and you have to stand still and silent (no chatting in party/linkshell) to let it go by without attracting its attention... or perhaps a better-excuted Zdei-style rotating/patrolling thing your group has to avoid being seen by.

I'm all for these types of things and the more capable we are of just sitting on a bird, or hitting sneak/invis to bypass having to think or pay attention... the more monotonous the game becomes to me. The existing XIV aggro system is a joke and incredibly inconsistent. It needs to be overhauled to make some sort of sense.

Best part about XIV aggro system is the obligatory insta kill range attacks that follow many aggro. I sure love to have no chance to survive.

In about every mmo i played, I can use the environment to kite a monster, and eventually outrun it, but in ffxiv, you just cross your finger and hope that you're out of its range.

[Kurokikaze]

In about every mmo i played, I can use the environment to kite a monster, and eventually outrun it, but in ffxiv, you just cross your finger and hope that you're out of its range.

FFXIV mobs defy the laws of physics. Run through walls and up cliffs. Shoot and cast through walls (no LOS).

[Spider-Dan]

I love it when people accuse me of having tunnel vision as they are also saying, "well, I've never seen a mob that can kill me before I can run away from it, so they probably won't exist ever." I can only surmise that this is a corollary of the earlier-expressed argument of "all of those pointless areas with rank 80+ mobs probably won't matter later, anyway."

I'm amazed that I have to explain the purpose of stealth, but here's one example: exploring areas with mobs that are far too dangerous for you to fight. This could be relevant if they implemented something like, say, open-world treasure chests.

Not every activity in the game consists of a party killing-everything-in-sight (or, in XIV's case, running past everything in sight). Regardless of what the mobs might drop, sometimes fighting is not the reason you are there. Stealth abilities allow characters to complete objectives in areas with dangerous enemies (while maintaining your stealth); that is the challenge. Simply designing the game so that there are areas where you can go and areas where you can't is not some sort of breakthrough in entertainment.