Comments from the Devs

[Gadritan]

It took you that long to look up a couple of words? Jebus.

[Spider-Dan]

Best part about XIV aggro system is the obligatory insta kill range attacks that follow many aggro. I sure love to have no chance to survive.

It is incredibly entertaining to participate in a thread in which the same people who talk about "9000 damage vorpal roars" and "insta kill range attacks" also berate me for suggesting that being knocked off your bird would result in death.

[miokomioko]

Yeah, and they said they were going to remove those stupid abilities. Remember?

[Spider-Dan]

That is exactly the lazy response that I expected. Please outline a scenario in which a chocobo (who ostensibly runs at ~twice your speed) can be hit by an enemy's attack, but you cannot.

If your argument is that (post-mob-ranged removal) chocobos will simply never get hit, so stealth is a non-issue, then make it. But that isn't what you (plural) have been saying; you're saying that you can just saunter away and resummon if you get knocked off.

Nothing in any of these notes suggests that crazy dLVL damage formulas are going away. Therefore, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that if a mob is able to land an attack on you, the capability for "insta kill attacks" will still exist (especially since you are unlikely to have buffs when you are knocked off of your bird). So, again, if a mob can land a hit on something that runs twice as fast as you, why would it be unable to land a hit on you?

[Waraji]

^

Yeah, and they said they were going to remove those stupid abilities. Remember?

Apparently cannot Remember.

Basis of argument of Subject A: Ranged attacks by mobs would one shot chocobo/you. Ranged attacks by mobs are being removed for the most part.

THEREFORE: Subject A has no argument.

And if Subject A has no argument, then Subject A is just posting to post.

Can we now move on to ACTUAL topics worth actual debate and discussion now?

[Spider-Dan]

Listen, it's not complicated: either you think that chocobos will be capable of being attacked by mobs (in practice), or not.

If so, arguing over whether you got killed by a ranged attack or a melee attack is immaterial.
If not, then chocobos ARE stealth, effectively (just with an annoying "must keep moving" requirement).

Summary: any mob that can hit something ~twice as fast as you... can hit you. This is not rocket science.

[Lucavi]

FFXI was hard?

Wyrms, yo.

[Hiruke]

Listen, it's not complicated: either you think that chocobos will be capable of being attacked by mobs (in practice), or not.

If so, arguing over whether you got killed by a ranged attack or a melee attack is immaterial.
If not, then chocobos ARE stealth, effectively (just with an annoying "must keep moving" requirement).

Summary: any mob that can hit something ~twice as fast as you... can hit you. This is not rocket science.

I believe what was suggested earlier was something like:

Mob has a certain area they stay within.
If you are hit off your chocobo by the mob, you should have covered most of this area already (say you are 75% of the way to reaching the line that marks the end of that mobs territory).
After getting hit off your chocobo, you should be able to run the remainder of the way out of the mobs territory.
After leaving the mobs territory, resummon chocobo.

I don't think anyone's arguing that you could run the entire mob territory on foot if you can't do it on choco, but that it shouldn't be much of an issue to get through the territory when you do most of it on choco, and some of it on foot if knocked off.

I suppose you either agree with the above, or not. I don't care, but you seem to be completely ignoring that this was ever said.

[Spider-Dan]

I believe what was suggested earlier was something like:

Mob has a certain area they stay within.
If you are hit off your chocobo by the mob, you should have covered most of this area already (say you are 75% of the way to reaching the line that marks the end of that mobs territory).
After getting hit off your chocobo, you should be able to run the remainder of the way out of the mobs territory.
After leaving the mobs territory, resummon chocobo.

I don't think anyone's arguing that you could run the entire mob territory on foot if you can't do it on choco, but that it shouldn't be much of an issue to get through the territory when you do most of it on choco, and some of it on foot if knocked off.

I suppose you either agree with the above, or not. I don't care, but you seem to be completely ignoring that this was ever said.

Already addressed; the problem with this theory is the idea that when you get knocked off of your bird, it will be conveniently at the edge of the range of the lone mob that has aggroed you, with clear skies in front of you. If you are traveling through an area with a dense enough mob population (and/or tightly confined terrain) to where your much faster bird gets hit, you're not likely to be knocked off right next to a mob dead zone. And if you couldn't avoid getting hit when you were on a bird, you will still be quite susceptible to oneshots.

Furthermore, if I were a betting man, I'd be inclined to wager that when you do get knocked off of a bird, you will be attacked at least once before you can take any meaningful action at all. Does anyone think you're going to hit the ground running?

[Hiruke]

Ha. I actually did miss that you spoke to that particular scenario. Of course, I probably missed it because it was one sentence in a cloud of posts, that was never responded to. Though, at this point, the argument seems so focused on whether or not this would be a concern (being able to escape once knocked off your chocobo), that I'm no longer quite sure what the point of the argument is, really. I would concede, however, that if you got knocked off your choco in a cloud of high level agro mobs, you'd probably be screwed.

[Vuitton]

guess those are the risks you take by charging through a dangerous area recklessly.

[Niiro]

guess those are the risks you take by charging through a dangerous area recklessly.

For real, you have no idea how many people are waiting for SE to fix this before they'll play.

[miokomioko]

That is exactly the lazy response that I expected.

Then you should also have an idea how little I care to argue about this.

I personally prefer the idea of not being 100% invincible/invisible just for sitting on a chocobo.

http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/ima...t-yoshi_08.gif
(sorry, I couldn't find a chocobo deal-with-it gif)

[Gulkeeva]

You'll have your invincible 100% "mount" when company crafts their own boats and... airships? etc somewhere by mid 2013

[Kaylia]

It is incredibly entertaining to participate in a thread in which the same people who talk about "9000 damage vorpal roars" and "insta kill range attacks" also berate me for suggesting that being knocked off your bird would result in death.

Like I said, you're suffering from tunnel vision for not realizing there is many way around the issue you posted.


In the current context, losing your chocobo in a pack of high level mobs would mean death, but t they already said they would remove the telekinetic attack, and would fix many issue about the battle system.

[Kaylia]

That is exactly the lazy response that I expected. Please outline a scenario in which a chocobo (who ostensibly runs at ~twice your speed) can be hit by an enemy's attack, but you cannot.

Like I asked before, have you played any games that arent made by SE before? Such scenario happens very often, especially when you consider the few monsters that have genuine spells, range attack and the like.

[Spider-Dan]

Like I asked before, have you played any games that arent made by SE before? Such scenario happens very often, especially when you consider the few monsters that have genuine spells, range attack and the like.

Please explain a scenario where something twice as fast as you can be hit, but you cannot.

If your point is that chocobos won't get hit, fine, but that completely invalidates the argument that the removal of stealth is a key gameplay improvement (since the stealth isn't really removed at all). How many times do I have to explain this?

- if you get knocked off of your bird, it's because your bird got hit (whether it was ranged, melee, or magic is irrelevant)
- if your bird (which is much faster than you) got hit, you can get hit

And as I already mentioned, it's highly unlikely that when you get knocked off, you will gain control in time to take meaningful action before the mob gets at least one free shot at you.

I don't see what WoW or any other game has to do with any of the preceding points, but if you want to explain how (in some other game not made by Square-Enix) your significantly-faster-mount can be attacked to the point of despawn by mobs that are incapable of catching you on foot, please feel free.

[Kaylia]

What the fuck are you even trying to argue? You make absutely no sense.

[Spider-Dan]

......

If a mob was fast enough to hit (and kill) your bird, it's fast enough to hit (and kill) you.
If you are in a situation where your (much faster) bird gets killed, you are not in an area with easily avoided, sparsely populated mobs (so "run away and resummon" is unlikely, especially since these EXACT mobs have proven capable of killing something much faster than you are).
Therefore, if you get knocked off of your bird, you're probably dead.

I don't see why this straightforward concept is being disputed, particularly by people who are proclaiming that threat of death on a chocobo is a welcome change.

WTF are you even trying to argue? Please tell me.

[Celeras]

First off, shut the fuck up dan.

Secondly, I made a post on the official forums. You should check it out, it's serious business: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ally-addressed.